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Does anyone know how programs like ALEKS and EPGY compare to the Accelerated Math program? Accelerated Math is what our school uses and I'm wondering if something like ALEKS would be better.

Thanks.

Our schools use accelerated math, too, and I think it is OK, but lacking. At least it allows them to progress quickly if they already have mastered skills instead of endless repetition. However, I find that teachers can use it as a crutch and an excuse not to have to "teach" math. My kids seem to need human interaction to learn best. Also, according to my kids who have used accelerated math for up to 5 years now, one can navigate through the multiple choice format easily, without having to actually do the problems or understand the topics. This has been a serious problem with usually accelerated math exclusively as your math program.

My oldest son in middle school says he has learned nothing in math in the past 2 years (the school relies on accelerated math for advanced math students). Finally he was tired of "going through the motions" and he asked me if he could take an EPGY course. We're in month 3 of his first course, which is very challenging to him (something new for him). The process and technology were somewhat challenging to me, but now we've got it down. I recommend it IF your child is motivated (my son has to work after school and give up his highly-valued free time, but he's pretty committed). I still work with him on difficult topics because the human interaction can shortcut what would take him much longer to understand if relying only on himself.

Last year I went to the district gifted dept head and told them that my 7 yr old son what not learning much with just accelerated math. I told them he was a Davidson Institute Young Scholar and that DITD recommended ALEKS & EPGY. EPGY was too expensive for them to consider, but they were responsive to ALEKS and very quickly purchased it for his class (kudos to DITD influence!). The class loves it. It it more interactive than accelerated math and gives them feedback (pie charts showing skills still needed v. those mastered), worksheets to help develop skills (and encourage teacher interaction when there are questions), and still allows them to progress quickly. They are all working at lower levels than their accelerated math level (for instance, my son is in 7th grade accelerated math, but only 6th grade ALEKS) which I think reflects that ALEKS is more difficult. ALEKS is affordable, while EPGY is probably too high for most public schools. I've been trying to get our middle school to evaluate it for use, but haven't gotten far.

My daughter's school just purchased Aleks last week based on my recommendation. The kids are supposed to start today:-)
I am not familiar with Accelerated Math, but know for sure that Aleks does not use multiple choice format. Student has to calculate answers in his/her head or on paper and then type them in.
You can try Aleks for free x 48 hours. Go to www.aleks.com.
EPGY sounds great, a little pricey though.
Ania

Thanks for the replies. I didn't realize ALEKS started at 3rd grade level--sounds like it might be too advanced for DD5 right now. She just started doing Accelerated Math at school last week--scored 89% on her first work, which was at 2nd grade level. But it sounds like AM is much easier than ALEKS, and a whole different type of system with the multiple choice format.

I think I'll have DS7, who is in 3rd grade, check out ALEKS with the free trial and see how it goes for him.

Ania, that is great that your school got ALEKS on your recommendation!

Good luck with Aleks, GG. My DS loves the Pie Chart they give at the end of the tests.

Well, who doesn't love pie!? :-)

Question on ALEKS:

I set up the trial program for my son, 5y 7m old. He actually managed to answer some questions in the addition/subtraction and fractions sections of the pie on the Math 3!!!! I was shocked. So the program was able to generate a starting place for him - with learning in a couple of the pie sections.

Now, I was setting this up this evening, not really knowing what I was going to get and he did the assessment with me willingly, even eagerly. But when I tried to get him to do the practice/learning part he balked and decided it was "boring" and he wanted to go back to building with legos.

Any suggestions on how to get him to sit with me and actually learn something?! I'd really like to see if he could get going with it. Maybe he could use it at school! I've noticed lately that he pretty much balks at anything that isn't easy for him. This bothers my husband and I. I think his anxiety and perfectionism keep him from learning how to learn. Does that make sense? He just seems like he doesn't want to think. And he prefers to read the workbooks himself and "figure it out" rather then have me show him what to do. So how do I engage him in a program like ALEKS?

Hi Dottie (and all),

Now I'm very curious--what were you going to talk to me about?
You've go my ear.

Cym

See if they would let him do at school, say 10 minutes a day.
Ania

I tried to get him to sit with me and look at the practice stuff over the weekend. No luck. But I did get him to sit and listen long enough to learn more about place value and carrying for addition. When it started to click I could the "ah-ah" going on and his eyes got all bright - it was the spark that was missing. He says again that he doesn't want to do "that easy math homework." But doesn't want to think either! Maybe at school would be good. I'm going to try again at home though. I'd prefer to see him more motivated and independent in navigating the program before I ask the school. Thanks for the input.

Dottie, you hit it right about the frustration. He just hates it when something doesn't come instantly and won't hardly spend 10 minutes on thinking unless HE initiates it!

To those of you who got ALEKS through your schools for the $35/year price, how exactly did that work? Who did you talk to -- teacher, principal, etc.? Did the school pay for it or did you? And if you sign up through a school, can you child work on the program at both school and home?

Also if you have more than one child using the program, do you have to register separately and pay the $35 fee for each child?

Thanks!

Debbie -
I found working with DS10 using Aleks last year to be a very eye-opening experience. I use terms like: "Balanced Push" and "parenting him through it" - sounds better than an 8 year old melting down. We only used it for a few months because I wanted him to be the one who was motivated, but we accomplished a lot of math and learn-to-learn. It was a slow, difficult and painful process and I was grateful for every moment, although perhaps not exactly during every moment - LOL! He learned to check his work! He learned to rely on me to teach something. That includes listening to another human being know something he doesn't know - not easy. He never learned to make much use of the explaination text or use it independently - Perhaps because the 5th grade level had more complicated concepts? Perhaps he needed to be shown rather than read text?

Just a week ago we clashed over his Math homework - he had missed the class on "Scientific Notation" and I wanted him to read from the book because he couldn't figure out the homework from "just looking" and I want him to learn how to learn. He wanted me to "just tell it" for Goodness Sake! How could I be so cruel? Withholding information like that! Some nerve! I did acutally cave after 10 long minutes of gently insisting that he read, and there were tears. I've talked to a few homeschoolers and the suggestions of "why" range from "he's lonely" to "low frustration tolerance" to "unused to learning the normal way" to "lazy."

I'm looking for more opportunities to fight this war. I expect it will be a seige. OTOH - he's much farther ahead of the game than I was, trying to learn how to learn without family support while away at college. Good thing I was pretty and had good social skills. Perhaps peers are the best teachers of "learn how to learn" skills anyway?

this kind of thing is the best demonstration of the "special needs" of gifted kids I've ever seen.

Love and More Love,
Trinity

I wanted to update you on our success with ALEKS! I decided to sit down and do it myself a little, just the practice pages. I was making mistakes on purpose so it would keep giving me problems. Son walked over to see what I was doing and then started correcting me! He eventually pushed me off the chair and took over, staying involved with the program for over an hour! He finally understood how the program works and was loving the pie chart - seeing his progress documented. He also loved how he could open up new modules by answering questions - he thinks it is like his Math Missions game where he moves around the city opening up new places to go!

He also started to get the idea of learning to learn and even asked me to help explain when he was confused. I let him work on his own and he actually handled making mistakes pretty well when he realized he had a chance to correct them. Later in the day he took a spiral notebook and was making up his own "assignment" with two digit addition with carrying. He showed it to me and said "look, I'm doing my NEW math homework. I learned this today!" Made me want to cry!

Now, I'm definitely going to talk to the school and see if he can do this there. Math homework this week is still the same as all the other weeks - he can't thrive for long in this situation!

Thanks for the great resource! I highly recommend it!

Galaxy Girl: I mentioned ALEKS to my daughter's teacher during a p/t conference. I offered to pay for it. She took it to the principal who checked how ALEKS compares with our Utah curriculum
and went ahead and purchesed it. So the school picked up the cost. There are 5 kids working on Aleks each day (by advocating for my daughter I helped four other kids!). During regular math class TA takes them to the school library (computer lab is occupied) and they use computers there. My daughter has a user name and password, she can access ALEKS at home and work on her own. We love it! I have to mention one thing though, this school makes a hughe effort to accomodate it's students so maybe that's why the whole process was painless :-)
Debbie: I am so happy for you!
Ania

Debbie and Ania -
I'm so pleased!

I can also report that during last night's homework, which I wasn't involved with, in any way, I observed DS10 taking my suggestion of looking back at the examples and pages when he was stumped. (His book has little notes in the homework: If you need help with questions 22-28 turn to Example 4 on page 199. Is that cool or what?)

Isn't it weird when they resist/yell/cry that they won't do it your way, and then a week later you look over and see that they are doing it your way? Parenting is a strange ride!
Trinity

MY son has started an online class through www.artofproblemsolving.com. (mathcounts)
It is really challenging, he has an understanding of only about 30% of what they are talking about. A huge eye opener for him:-)
- there are people out there, his age, who know way more than him.
He is already thinking about contacting two that he knows are from SLC area. He asked me last night "mom, do you think they like to play D&D ?"
And one more thing, his password "...his name...is cool"
that he is using to log on. I just loved it!
Art of problem solving is a great math site for older kids.
Ania

Can anyone tell me about the Dive Into Math interactive CDs? I think Willa mentioned it before. Doesn't Mite do this?

I have a meeting scheduled for next Tues with the teachers about son's math skills/program. He is not wanting to keep doing ALEKS at home, but I'm going to suggest it for school. I wanted to have other options to suggest and wonder about the Dive Into Math, since it is based on the Saxon program they already do at school. But I think it might start at a level too high for us.

Debbie,
what happened to the ALEKS? My son's interst also waned. I think my son really likes learning with others. I wonder if Aleks will every do a forum so the kids can talk to each other while they do the math.

I liked larson online 4-6th grade, but not prealgebra. Pretty pictures.
T

Trinity:
I think he just is tired of doing school work all week and so doesn't want to do it at home. But to be fair, I haven't had the time to actually sit for long and encourage him. I'm going to try again this weekend. Since I work full time, the weekday evenings are just too busy for adding more academic stuff. He just needs "mommy time" and some down time to be a kid!

I also think that the school will hesitate to have him work on ALEKS there, as he still needs help navigating through the tutorials. He is only 5 and 1/2, so although he is doing the math, he isn't really independent to read the explanations and udnerstand it all on his own. Needs that initial support and guidance to move through the steps correctly and grasp the concept initially. But then he can do the repetitions of the exercises with just a little supervision. But I know the school will say they don't say have a staff member who can monitor him.

He likes being with the other kids, too. When I asked him if he thought he would rather do 2nd grade math he said yes, because it would be harder and he likes hard math, but then he said he wouldn't like to be with new kids. Funny thing though, two days ago he told me that he informed his math teacher that "this math is way too easy." Unfortunately he couldn't tell me what her response was! DH and I figure she was stymied and said nothing!

LOL - DS10 couldn't teach himself from Aleks at age 9! But just because they can't teach themselves, doesn't mean that they don't deserve to learn. Same here with DS10 not wanting to do school work at home, he wanted appropriate work at school.

I think it's not uncommon for boys to be less willing to settle. For better and for worse. And yes, it's tough on the extroverted ones who don't want to work alone in the back of the class.

Trin

If it helps anyone....
My daughter's school has been doing this for only two weeks now. They have five participating students. Of course they need supervision, mostly with computer glitches (they are all 4th graders, I am thinking there is a reason why Aleks tutorials begin at the level of grade 3 :-). So the school approached the parents of those five kids asking if they would be willing to help out. Three of us could, so on those three days it is parents supervising the computer lab. It frees the teacher and her aide, this way they are more willing to do this extra accomodation. And we can help too, with our little ideas. For example, when some of them were measuring angles using an online protractor, I grabbed a plastic one and had them practice on paper as well.
Ania

Go Ania! I'm glad your school is willing to be so flexible!
T

Hi Adios,
Welcome!
Trinty

A quick question to the community.

My son has been doing ALEKS for about two months now, and he is finishing level6. We would like to try EPGY. But

a) it is very expensive
b) it says that he needs to start in his current grade (grade 3).

is there a way for him to take a test so that he can do epgy at the right level for him? he is truly close to grade 6 or grade 7 math at this point, and the idea that we would be paying nearly 500 dollars for him to take grade 3 classes and work is a bit difficult to process.

any ideas or suggestions?

thank you,

E

We use EPGY and my son just finished 3rg grade. I was worried about the same thing. It took a month for my son to finish the third grade work and just over 2 for the 4th grade. He slowed down at 5th grade. While the third grade was easy for him I am glad they had him do it. The work was a lot more in depth then he was used to and it gave him practice with in problem solving he wasn't used to.

Since the program is adaptive, meaning that the program will give more problems when the child is having difficulty and less when a subject is done well it was not boring. He loved it when he got something he know and after 4 problems it changed subjects. He would get excited and point out that he already knew that. Then the concept would not return. It was done.

That being said, I have talked to parents who have had EPGY adjusted to the child's level. They spoke directly with EPGY or directly with their tutor and it was adjusted. We had the tutor stop the timed math facts that would pop up before each section since my son already was quick with them it just became an exercise in typing instead of math. There was no problem getting that removed.

I am very satisfied with EPGY.

LK