Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments High school course selection

She isn't trying to avoid the basic science courses in high school. If she hadn't taken both the 9th and 10th grade science courses this year, there would be no way that she'd get in all of them anyway. What she is stuck with is that she can't take any AP science courses at all unless she takes multiple science courses every year except one and takes both the pre-AP and then the AP. So, for instance, a kid who wants to take AP bio, chem, and physics would need the following schedule:

9th:
pre-AP bio
Earth Systems Science
(this is what dd is taking)

10th:
pre-AP chem
pre-AP physics

11th:
AP Bio
AP Chem

12th:
AP Physics

What we're leaning toward at this point is having her take the microbio/botany/zoology course next year as her only science class b/c she wants to be done with Algebra II when she enrolls in chem or physics, taking chem in 11th, and college physics in 12th (she can do this through concurrent enrollment rather than the pre-AP/AP sequence) rather than AP bio. She can study extra bio on the side and probably will through summer programs, etc. and get both college & high school credit for physics but no bonus GPA points like she would get from the AP bio class.

I'm trying to help her balance mental health, her grades, and a decent course load.

We'll cross the math choice in the future after she's into Algebra II. At that point, she can decide if the pre-AP calc, AP calc route or college trig, AP stats route is going to work for her.

My problem with this is, why does the high-school require an introductory course before AP? I've never heard of this before. A college student who never took bio in high school can take college-level bio without taking an intro course for elective credit first... so why not take the college-level class in high school? Isn't that the point of AP? It's a nonsense requirement.

I'm no expert, but what I keep hearing over and over is that the 20 most selective colleges absolutely want to see that a child took the most difficult courses availible at her school. It seems to me that you are looking for something different than that - see above - which I encourage. Having time to 'be a kid' is more important that going to any particular college.

Since your child have a very strongly defined area of interest, why not explore some 'niche' colleges, such as
http://www.coa.edu/contact.htm
and look on College Confidential to see what kinds of kids are being admitted to schools that are strong in marine biology?

My point is that you can't answer to 2 masters - either you want to keep the door open to one of the top 20 'name' schools and toss all other considerations to the wind, or you want what is best for your individual child(which is only occasionally the same thing - there are some kids who can do well in all those hardest High School classes, and do the ECs, and feel perfect balance - but those kids are few, and IQ isn't more than a small part of what makes a kid like that. Consider Drive and Competitive nature and Stamina and ability to see things from other people's perspective, even if the other people are adult teachers.) Think it over, decide what is best for your family, and go from there. Our advice isn't worth anything unless you make your best guess about what kind of kid you have and what is best for her.

Best wishes,
Grinity

That's been my thought as well. She's taking a lot of pre-AP classes which apparently count for nothing in terms of boosted GPA but they are pre-reqs to take the AP classes and we're told that they look good to colleges. I took AP bio in 10th, AP chem in 11th, and AP physics in 12th with no pre-AP intro course before these classes, but I guess that things are different at her high school and we've not been able to talk them into letting her take the AP classes without the pre-AP first. She can do concurrent enrollment college courses her junior & senior year and take the college courses for college and hs credit. The only drawback to doing that in lieu of AP is that the AP classes count for an extra point on your hs GPA and the college courses do not. She also won't be able to drive until a little after the start of the senior year b/c she won't turn 16 until then so, if these classes aren't offered on campus @ her hs, getting her to and from them will require a little juggling.

Re Grinity's note, I have a very driven, motivated HG kid. She is, however, a slower processor with a SPD and dyspraxia dx. She has a 504 for extra time theoretically but that amounts to nothing really. She still has eight classes each semester and, if those classes are all core/hard classes rather than a lot of the softer electives that many other kids are taking, it means nothing in terms of her GPA, makes it hard to have the other things that appeal to colleges (like leading clubs/other extracurriculars), and the only thing she could get out of extra time is to ask to turn stuff in later which would only pile the homework up. She hasn't been using the extra time at all as a result.

It sounds to me like she has a good chance of getting into two of her top college choices (Stetson & UO) even if she doesn't take five AP classes every year and become the student body president. I don't know on others like Duke, but she can apply and see what happens. I'm just looking @ it from the standpoint of realizing that, if she falls apart and kills herself or her grades start slipping b/c she is so stressed, that doesn't help her applications to competitive colleges either. Alive and happy is more important to me. I just don't think that she should have to sacrifice her life long dreams to be alive and reasonably happy.

What is "pre-AP" class for? I never took any pre-AP anything.

I took AP Chemistry in the 10th grade my first year in a really tough HS and loved it. Ditto the other classes.

Grinity has a great point. Better to go to a good school where she can get one on one with a good prof in a well-funded program as an undergrad that is getting results than getting into a "top 20" school.

The one thing that is missing from the course selection is computer science of some sort.

She has a lot more on her schedule than what I am listing here. I've been focusing on the science courses primarily b/c that's where she's at a loss to fit it all in w/out losing other things she wants to take like speech/debate. She is taking AP human geography (history) next year and two AP language arts/literature classes (one in 11th, one in 12th) plus a range of other electives ranging from French 4 to sociology to photography to probably something in the computer sciences. I'm not positive on all of what is in her 11th and 12th grade tentative plans at this point.

As an Earth Science prof, and advisor to 130 of our undergrads:

Calculus before college opens doors.

The rest is gravy.

Calc is the prereq for just about everything. Here, you need calc before chemistry, and chemistry before bio, so if you come into college as a bio chem major without calculus, you need 3 terms to get to the first intro course.

Often times AP Chemistry and Physics don't transfer, not because of what Bostonian suggests as the need for butts in chairs, but because the AP classes are poorly aligned with the content in the first year courses.

I was in a similar situation in high school. I took my mom's and HS councilor's advice: I was already intending to go to a STEM school for college, so why not take things I wouldn't have time for then? I took psychology, art history, AP European history, and an extra writing course instead of AP physics and chemistry. I have a significantly better education as a result.

Our local high school also has kids take regular Bio or regular chem, then AP bio or AP chem. I don't understand that either.
If you know what schools she wants to go to and can get into, then that is good. If a kid wants Duke or a really top school, they are kind of forced to take a million AP courses and not do the fun extra-curricular activities that don't "get you anywhere." I don't agree with all of that but that is what has happened to college applications. It has gotten super competitive to get into a good college.

My son took all the AP's in high school but at the advice of his father (EE major), my son took Calculus again as a freshman in college this year instead of testing out of it. He said it IS taught differently and that he is glad he's taking it in college as it is the foundation for the boatload of the math classes towards his ME major. But he said the AP classes in high school have definitely helped with how easy the material has been as a freshman.

As to two sciences in one year in HS - that is a lot. And if her GPA suffers, it could hurt her scholarship chances. And having time to be a kid is important - I think your mom instincts are right about that.

It depends on where you want to go for graduate school.

For instance, if you want to go to Duke for law school (which I don't recommend), it's easier to get into Duke Law from Penn State (and 100 other places) than it is from Duke undergrad.