Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy What do you do about disrespect?

DS11 in really giving me a hard time. It is common for him to tell me to shut up and call me a jerk. I am very upset by this. I never ever spoke to my parent or him that way. I don't seem to be getting anywhere despite the usual efforts. This is wearing me out.

Some of this is about his inner voice screaming at him. If I make a very conscience effort in sweetest voice to attempt to suggest improvement in homework, he hears I'm yelling at him like he is no good.

I never get progress from taking away priveleges, although I do it anyway.

Thank you.

I actually felt bad asking this, questioning my parenting. I wish I was better at not taking in his words that hurt. It's helpful to have your level headed insight.

As moms, the reason behind the bad behavior is often as important for us as the bad behavior itself, but with a gifted child, they're often perceptive enough to understand this about us and manipulate us into accepting bad behavior and into making excuses for their inappropriate responses to stressors.

After raising two kids who are grown, I'd say the one thing that helped the most was drawing a line that I refused to accept if they tried to cross - and name calling and disrespect were on the other side of that line. When they crossed it, I sucked in the hurt and responded swiftly, severely and consistently. (And by severely, I mean in the level of reaction/punishment - not escalation.)

I often cried later, hurt that they'd been unkind, but they needed to know I was parenting them and not responding to their bad behavior. It usually stopped it in its tracks.

My older son went through a particularly rough period in mid school, and it got to the point that I let him know that our "obligation" was to clothe, feed and provide medical for him. Above that, it was all perks. We took away his gaming things, then his iPod (one of the first gen at that - smile), and it wasn't until I informed him that if he couldn't learn to respect and appreciate what he had, he would come home from school to find he'd lost his furniture, all but a single change of clothes and his door. They were perks he'd have to earn back.

He became a model of respect over night.

And so the only advice I have for you is not to react in mild increments. If it is something you do not want to ever tolerate (and what he thinks he can do to his mother will be what he'll do to his wife some day), then make sure he knows by the punishment that the price is not worth the bad behavior.

Hang in there. Parenting sometimes really sucks, but if we hang in there, we weather the storm and come out the other side with kids who respect and love us - and that we respect and love.

Hi onthegomom

I totally agree with MoN about stating flatly (not explaining) about how you will and will not be treated. There are some things that are not negotiable - not inside the house and not outside the house. I also agree about trying to remain calm and walking away if necessary - disengage the minute the behavior occurs. However, it occurs to me to wonder when and why he is doing it - lashing out because you critique him - is it in pain, he hears you yelling at him or critizing him - or is it a techniquie to get you to leave him alone so he doesnt have to correct it, change it or do whatever you were telling him he needed to do. Nutshell - is it an inappropriate defense mechanism or a clever tactic?

i would love to hear what those who use the NHA do in these situations (haven't read the book, feeling like I am absorbing it by osmosis seems like you could praise the - thank you for speaking to me respectfully, etc moments. Perhaps giving something when it goes well so that he sees the benefit of being nice. And since some of it is hormonal, i like what MoN says about having to learn to behave when frustrated

A cousin is a middle school teacher - quite possibly the hardest job!!! She says that 11-14 is one of the hardest to deal with because they are both fragile and belligerent - it was such an apt picture it stuck with me!

Most important thing - find some way to get some me time for yourself to recharge those worn out batteries. A new patience can often be found after a good walk in a park, by the ocean, or whatever gives you peace. I find that rejuvination in natural settings most - probably because its the farthest from my noisy norm.

Hang in there!

DeHe

Have you read the book"transforming difficult child-nurtured heart approach"? I am using it with my seven year old son, who has been wearing me out every day.

It works to some degree,but he could not give up pushing limits. Just earlier tonight, he ignored me and kept making noises after lights were out and made his brother doing the same. I feel furious and I could not effectively control my emotion and yelled at them despite the advices in the book about not to respond with negative emotion. This is so hard! I don't know what to do with this child any more.

So I understand those of you who has difficult child. We did everything we could.

Purpleviolin,
someone here told me this - when you do something well with your child - like controling how you talk to DC, give yourself some praise, this is a process for both parent and child to develop into. This positive reinforcement help you make progress.

Sometimes my slow process of learning to do something better has helped me to understand that it's hard for kids to do certain behavors.

Thank you for sharing, you helped me remeber this. hang in there.

I think a little definition of "the usual efforts" here would be key to understanding.


This reminds me of my own "Rights, Responsibilities, and Privileges" lecture series my daughter is occasionally treated to, as situations dictate. For example, if she's giving me grief about bedtime, I tell her about her rights to good health and a good education, how sleep plays an important role in both, and how I therefore have a responsibility to uphold those rights by ensuring she gets adequate sleep. "So don't complain to me about bedtime being too early, I don't have a choice in the matter, because I don't get to violate your rights." Bedtime stories, on the other hand, are a privilege earned through good behavior, and can be revoked at any time.

It seems to work for her.

Just now fully converting to the nurtured Heart approach. You're supposed to say, "that's a timeout". Then if they get rude or wound up after that (mine starts chanting, "it's not a timeout! It's not a time out! It's not a timeout.." I'm supposed to say, "take a break". Every few intervals, I guess, until they take a breath then say quickly "Your time-out's over. Thank you for getting control of yourself. You're showing good self respect.". ((*I told him I was going to get a little notebook to keep in my pocket and make a little line in it every time I see him using extra good behavior- he answered "You'll need a big book with a whole lot of big pages in it.))
I also just bought the book "Playful Parenting" which seemed like it would enhance the nurtured heart approach. The amazon site quoted the book as saying kids have these little cups that need to be kept full of love and the quickest way to show we love them is to play with them. The nurtured heart says to describe what you see your kid doing out loud and in detail as if describing to a blind person, at random five times a day- when things are normal, not good or bad. Just to show we see and notice them.
I like that they said playing will remind you of how much you used to like kids. (I guess not your kids, who you love dearly, but kids in general, before you got wore out.).

End book review.

I could see that particular bit there backfiring with a gifted kid. It's pointing out the obvious, and they might decide the parents are being stupid. They're going to decide they're smarter than us eventually, but I'm not planning to rush the process.

Otherwise, solid advice all around. Though I have to say I'm surprised that someone felt the need to write a book telling parents to play with their kids.

With our older 3 (all 18 + now) we took away all the screens first, then the door, then the other personal belongings. Never had to raise our voice, or go beyond that. We did make sure there was a direct connection between the offense and the restriction, "clearly you're overstimulated or you wouldn't act like that."

Ultimately we gave up commercial television in all forms, with a restriction of no more than an hour of screen time a day during the school year.

It really did help. We noticed we had more problems with certain programs and the kids' grip on what reality looks like. Still do, but I can't take away a 19 year old's television and computer. ;o)

Our most gifted, and youngest child needs to lose screens for longer and sooner to keep the 'tude in check.

HTH
Bean

Oh goodness, my 5 year old does this! You mean it's going to get worse.



If anyone needs me I'll be hiding under the bed.....

The best method I have found is twofold based on the age of the child. Have you seen the movie "ground hog day?" It involves doing the same thing over and over with small tweaks and adjustment until you get it right.

What we do is this. With a younger child we take them to their room, explain to them what they did that was inappropriate and then offer up a "do over" For a do over to work it must truly seem that the first time never happened. For a child that is 7-9ish I send them to their room, ask them to think about what they did wrong and offer up a do over.

For the teenage years, I have only found one way to make this work. First, NEVER send a teenager to their room. They will gladly lay on their bed for hours content in the knowledge that they are not doing whatever it is you wanted. They've won! Instead, we use manual labor..... I give them some sort of menial labor, like pulling weeds to do while they contemplate what they did wrong and how to correct it. They have to come to me with their reasoning and if I truly believe that they put some thought in and want to correct their error, I will give them the almighty do over. If I think it's smoke and mirrors, back to the weeds! There is nothing in the world that teenagers hate worse that manual labor. I've been a foster parent for almost 10 years and i've had 82 children. I have seen every conceivable attitude and this works.

Never, ever put any emotion into this! It must be done in a very matter of fact, it is what it is sort of way. It will take a few times but once they realize you are serious and that they can't push your buttons, you'll be surprised how quickly they begin to turn around.

Very sage advice indeed!

Thanks for bringing back the memory of a few years ago when my two teenager kids were pulling weeds and bickering after being sent outside to work off an argument. The neighbor looked over the fence and said, "Your Mom's garden is sure looking nice this summer. I'd have thought you'd have figured out how to get along, but maybe you all just like pulling weeds...". He chuckled and walked off. When the kids told me about it later, they both wondered how our neighbor knew that was why they were out there. I assured them it was an age-old solution to tempers.

I want to try the labor idea but need a little more help with the concept. I'm hesitant to make work into punishment because don't chores should feel good that you are helping. Is it the work, just helps them work thru the problem? I feel more confident implimenting something if I feel very right about it. Please clarify with more reasoning. How could I explain this to a child?

A friend of mine would make her son either hold a squat against the wall, or stand holding a phone book out in front of him. He's most polite teenager you'll ever meet now!

Have you ever tried these? They're extremely painful. At least a swat on the bum only smarts for a few seconds... this is sustained pain infliction.

OTGmom,

It needs to be a chore that doesn't involve any thought. You can pull weeds without thinking which leaves your brain free to think about the problem at hand. It's not enough to determine what the issue was, they need to come up with a solution. The weeds just give them a reason to actively think about what's going on.

If you send them to their room they will sleep or listen to music instead of working toward a solution. During the winter they stack firewood. If the problem involves schoolwork or grades, it makes the subtle point that manual labor waits for those that don't use their heads. I can't stress enough the importance of leaving the emotion out of this. If they refuse to weed, all privlege goes away...all of it. No TV, computer, ipod. No friends, phone or fun. Don't get mad about it...remember "It is what it is". Want your fun back? There's the weeds...

If a child is clear that there WILL be a consequence, it becomes easier to comply. Teenagers are lazy, they will take the easiest path.

We don't use labor directly here, for the reason onthegomom asked about. We want work to feel positive.

A little complicated, but here is what we are doing now:

DS9 has a point system. Do something good, earn a point (categories of pointworthy items specified by me, and changing over time, including respectful behavior, thinking of others, accepting consequences gracefully, etc.).

Do something disrespectful, and you lose 1, 3, 5, 10, or 30 points, sequentially. (First you lose 1, then IF it continues you lose 3, then 5, 10, 30 as you escalate in disrespect or fail to turn it around.)

You lose faster than you gain, so to earn points back, you have to do far more good than wrong. Chores above and beyond the usual requirements can be used to dig your way out of a hole (hence, they feel positive in this system). DS has been known to do laundry in desperation if he's down to -30.

If you're above 0, you have full privileges (including screen time). Between -30 and 0, partial privileges (not severe, but not ideal). If you're in partial privileges status, it resets the next morning. Below -30, no privileges until you're back up at 0 again, with no reset the next morning, which means if you're awful, you're looking at more than a week with no privileges.

Complicated, but effective. DS keeps a tally sheet in his pocket and is responsible for keeping track.

DeeDee

For us the physical labor was about two things - removing them from the immediate environment that was provoking the inappropriate response and about providing an outlet for the anger that was both appropriate and, as BWBShari mentioned, allowed them time to think out the problem.

For me there is a difference between feeling good about helping out and being responsible even when it doesn't feel good. Both are important. There are times in the workplace where you have to suck it up and do things that you resent, that you don't want to do, but that if you don't, the consequences will be severe. Teaching kids - especially teens - to have the self control to choose to do things they don't want to but that they need to do is just as important as making sure there are other experiences that allow for feeling good for contributing to the good of the family.

And one of the best reasons to use physical labor to deal with anger in a child is that physical labor almost always produces an immediate finished product that creates a sense of pride. A completely weeded garden, a shoveled driveway, etc. all create something immediately that they can be proud that they did. It replaces the inappropriate behavior with a positive outcome not only for the change in attitude but the sense of pride (whether they'll admit it or not) in what they improved physically.

I don't have any advice what to do, but perhaps how to think about it.

I've read, and I believe, that this kind of outburst is actually the child talking about themselves.

When they say "I hate you!" it is more often than not telling you that your child is unhappy with his/herself. Thinking back on my own teenager-hood, this holds true for me.

These are the things I tell myself. It helps me keep on an even keel.

Thank you, Yes, this is proballly part of it. I think of him as someone who is not completely comfortable in his skin.