Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Need Advice Before Tomorrow!

Hello everyone! I need some advice...

My DS6 is in Kindergarten this year. Thankfully he has a teacher that recognizes his abilities. We have a regular parent-teacher conference tomorrow. No big deal, right? Wrong! I stopped into his classroom after school today to say "hi" to his teacher. His teacher (Let's call him Mr.X) then informs that that he has invited the principal and curriculum director to the conference. Don't get me wrong, I think that it is great but I am so unprepared!

Mr.X said that he is worried about my son's schooling next year because he knows that he doesn't belong with same-age peers. I chose not to push for a grade skip this year because they offer every-other-day Kindergarten. I teach him other things on his days off and it has worked out well so far. But next year he has to go every day. I am hoping that he can skip 1st grade and go to 2nd.

I just need help getting my ducks in a row. I am unprepared and would love a little advice about what to say...

Thanks in advance,
Katie

I think you should just go in with the goal of listening to what they have to say. You don't have to commit to anything. If pressed, say that you so appreciate that they want the best for your son and that you'd like to take some time to think about things.

If you haven't yet, I'd look into different schooling options from curriculum compacting to subject acceleration to full-grade acceleration. Are any of those things that you'd like for this year, or for next year? Do you want to make any changes for this year at all or do you only want to look at next year's options?

And remember, you're at least as much an expert on your son as they are, almost certainly moreso. You seem like you have figured out a way for your son to be academically challenged with a pretty-great-sounding every-other-day K. There is no hurry, so you can just go in open-minded to listen.

Do you have any testing or online class data or anecdotal evidence of your son's abilities or academic level that you would like to share with them?

Most of all, yay to your school for recognizing your DS's abilities and being proactive! That's a big deal!

great news, I guess they usually administer some sort of test to confirm his level. So my guess is they are going to ask your permission.


In our case, DD, then 5 was given IQ and ability tests and advised to skip a grade (K)and we also felt comfortable in doing that
so she did skip a grade and doing well and enjoying her time.

You know your child best and decide based on their recs. one does not have skip grades to show smartness, just my opinion. occasional boredom in class should not be the deciding factor either..........

best of luck

I think it's a good sign. I agree with mnmom - you don't have to agree to anything yet. But I would take notes if I were you, and send a follow-up email afterwards listing the things you believe were discussed.

I would imagine that a curriculum director might be concerned with the dreaded "GAPS", so be prepared for some talk like that. Most elem. curriculum is very circular, repeating many concepts several times. Many HG kids don't need this, and if they miss a year early on, it's likely that they still already know the subject matter or else they can get it if explained quickly to them. We have heard things after a test like "your DS did not know THIS, which is very surprising considering how smart you think he is". (Well, not exactly that, but it felt like that!) My response was that he still needs to be taught things - he can't learn everything through osmosis (though sometimes it seems he does). But he can learn concepts much more quickly than the average bear.

If they want to do testing, first see if any testing you may already have will be sufficient. (Although many HG kids like all this testing, it is stressful for some.)

If they offer a skip sooner, I would think hard. It sounds like you have a great setup with the every other day kindy - something that would have been perfect for our DS. If it were me, I would ask if there's anything that can be done in terms of curriculum compacting and/or differentiation while he's still in every other day kindy.

First grade is typically a learn to read/learn to do very basic math year, all of which your DS probably already knows. So first grade can be a very tough year for HG kids. If they start leaning toward 1st plus differentiation, I would ask for the skip, as it's likely that even in 2nd grade your kiddo will need differentiation, and it's a lot easier to differentiate if the baseline instruction is closer to the needed level. Also more likely that there will be other kids in 2nd grade that will be close to your DS's level in certain subjects.

Do you or the school have a copy of the Iowa Acceleration Scales? Very objective way to determine if a student is appropriate for full grade skip. (I have a feeling your DS would score highly). Ask the school about this.

I may have asked this before, but how is your DS with handwriting? If this comes up as a concern, you can offer to work with him at home on this, and ask if you can get a handwriting program the school uses so your son will be learning the same stuff that the other kids learned. Handwriting without Tears is also a great program.

Do you have a DH or other partner? Take that person with you so you present a united front and also so you can remember everything.

Good luck!

First, allow me to express my envy that you even have full-grade acceleration on the table as an option. Then, let me express a cautionary tale, because it's very possible that full-grade acceleration may not be on the table as an option next year.

Ultimately, you have to figure out who your son is, and how he's best served, but as a 6yo who has already demonstrated he doesn't belong in K, I'd say a grade skip is a great option.

Thanks for the replies. I think the meeting went fairly well. We didn't bring up a full grade skip yet but we talked about subject acceleration for this year. Of course, the curriculum director was concerned about gaps. And the principal talked a lot about social issues. But, all in all, they seemed to grasp the concept that DS6 is PG and that something needs to be done.

For now, we have decided on testing him to see exactly where he is in terms of grade level at this school and to place him accordingly in a math class above K level.

We are all planning to meet again in February to talk more and probably discuss making a plan for next year.

Now let's see if they follow through...

Katie

Having been there and done that, these two statements are red flags to me.

The "gaps" argument should never be accepted:

1) There's almost nothing to have a gap about at the K level.
2) Scientific and anecdotal evidence agree that a gifted kid will figure out anything they missed early on pretty quickly, and any gaps will pass almost unnoticed.
3) The child can be tested to identify any gaps, so they can be immediately addressed.

The social argument does have some merit, but that depends entirely on the specific child in question. You have to answer that one objectively. However... it is a common myth embraced by school administrators that same-age grouping is critical to social success. The research says they're dead wrong... ability grouping is far more successful than age grouping.

And again, since your kid is already as old as the first graders, I don't even see this as an issue.

My wariness is born of a school system that adamantly opposes grade acceleration, and who promises a whole range of differentiation in the classroom that has yet to materialize. I hope you have a better outcome, but it helps to be prepared if you don't.

This'll help: http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/Get_Report.aspx

My family's experience is that the concern about gaps disappears once the curriculum director meets the child and does the testing. We've now been through this process with each kid, during which time the school administration has gone from hostile to "we'll work with you" in approach to acceleration. Yet in each case the initial meeting happened before those folks in charge had met my kids, and concerns about gaps were expressed. Once they were able to quantify that there were no gaps (or they were secondary), then acceleration proceeded with minimal fanfare. In my DD's case, she spoke through a solution to a problem where it became evident to the tester that she'd never confronted the concept before, but figured it out and got it right anyways.

I've read "A Nation Deceived," and it's an impressive publication. That said, the authors clearly approached the task with an agenda. We all hope and pray that acceleration or even radical acceleration is the answer, since it would mean that there IS a good solution to the challenge of educating our kids, but I kind of wonder what didn't make it into the report.

There must be some studies out there that discuss kids who DID have problems with social interactions or academic gaps. Who in this forum has seen such studies?

When my son was in pre-K teachers encouraged us to get him to K without waiting for the age (pre-K is a not part of the elementary school). But we decided against it. Now my son is bored in Math and he is reading at the end of 3rd grade level while he is in 2nd grade. I do not know whether we missed the opportunity to get him at his level. we talked to his 2nd grade teacher and she agreed to give some challenging work for him. He is already in a reading group at his level. When we decided against skipping we thought of gaps and social issues. Our pediatrician warned us against skipping.

Here are a number of anecdotes here, both good and bad.

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Personal_Stories/Default.aspx

As for the idea in general, the negative consequences of leaving a kid at his age level has to be weighed against the negative aspects of acceleration. I would give much more weight to the psychologists who work with the kids on a regular basis than the local schools who encounter one PG kid every few years.

As a child, I was both age-stagnated and accelerated several times and I greatly preferred the acceleration. The times I was with my age peers were very lonely and isolating times for me. I now view my time from age 8 to 15 when I was not accelerated as a complete waste of my abilities.

I like your term "age-stagnated." It helps to emphasize that keeping a child with their age-peers for academics is every bit as big a choice as academic acceleration. I'm going to have to remember "age-stagnated" and use it when questioned by disapproving others!

Stagnated is a good word, but age may not be the perfect prefix.

Subject-stagnated?
Grade-stagnated?

My two cents.....

My son who is 8 has been full grade skipped 4 times to 7th grade. He has been further accelerated to 8th for 2 classes and 10th for another. He gets along really well socially and loves his school. Friends? No, not one child that he considers his friend. Acquintances, schoolmates, but not friends. If he was still in 3rd grade, the results would be the same, he can't connect with his age peers.

That said, he wouldn't change it for anything. He has friends outside of school, a select few that he trusts to take him at face value. Why does a childs social experience have to be relegated to the halls of the school? My son is very social. He gets along well with everyone, he just doesn't consider many people "close friends". He does fine in group projects, he doesn't eat lunch alone and is invited to play Magic with the others.

When you join the work force you don't choose a company or a career based on social aspects, you base it on fit. Getting along in a diverse group is a very important skill, one that will serve him well as an adult. In my mind the "social" argument is an excuse. Coincidentally the same jackass excuse that gets used to dog homeschoolers. Fact is, it's getting harder and harder for schools to justify their actions when all of the studies point squarely at placing children based on ability rather than age.

For your little guy, once testing is complete you will have a snapshot, a better idea of where he needs to be. The Iowa Acceleration Scale will give you a very good idea of whether your child is a good candidate for grade skipping. That is what it is designed for. It takes all of your personal beliefs and baggage, puts them aside and gives you just the facts, ma'am...

Most importantly, and most often dismissed in all of this is the "mommy gut" (or daddy gut). What does your gut say? You know your child better than anyone, what do you think? Don't ever believe that someone with the alphabet strung along behind their name automatically knows whats best. Most of them are biased one way or another, for or against. They don't know your kid, you do.

It's a hell of a ride, trying to raise one of these small people. Trust yourself, let the "Mama" in you ring through and you'll be just fine.

And now, I will climb off my soapbox......

Oh, and I totally agree with the term "stagnate"

Considering your DS is already 6 and in K, I wouldn't even consider buying the social argument about needing to be with "same age peers," assuming your school system has a late summer or early fall cut-off. If you grade skip your DS, there will most certainly be children with birthdays at least close to his. (My younger 2 didn't turn 6 until the summer after Kindy and they are NOT grade accelerated.)

I wrote a paper for my masters program on the information behavior of educators vis a vis acceleration and had concerns about the one sided nature of Nation Deceived (although I very much appreciate it as a resource and have given copies to a number of people). If I was going to cite/rely on a work (or suggest a book to a principal) I would use:

The Academic Acceleration of Gifted Children, edited by Southern and Jones:

http://www.amazon.com/Academic-Acceleration-Children-Education-Psychology/dp/0807730688

I found their approach to be more even-handed and more likely to be accepted by educators - it is a summary of the research that is out there. And, it was published by Teachers College, Columbia University, which many educators will trust far more than a publication by a non-academic entity.

IIRC, there is in fact research that shows that adults who were skipped as children are by and large happy they were skipped, and many wish they had been skipped more years. On the other hand, there is a decent number who wish they hadn't been skipped (I can't recall the specific numbers, but I would guess in the 20% range). Many of the study participants did articulate social difficulties - they just felt on balance their academic needs were more important.

On the social side, it seems that kids who have social difficulties will have them regardless of grade, and those who don't have social difficulties will not have a problem with a skip. While we hear anecdotes about gifted kids who have a hard time with age peers but do better with older kids, this doesn't seem to actually occur all that often. What this suggests of course is that more focus should be on correct academic fit.

So much of it depends on each individual kid. My son has refused grade skips because he doesn't want to leave his crew of friends. We are lucky subject acceleration has worked pretty well. He is pretty bored in his non-accelerated subjects, but he understands the tradeoff. I feel like he understands the social repercussions very well. He is in 4th and starts the day at the middle school for math. He has to wait for school to start outside with the 7th graders and while they are nice to him, he only knows a few of them and they are not friends in a true sense. He can't wait until his friends from his own grade are also at the middle school and he has all his friends with him waiting for school to start. A small thing, but one that matters a lot to him.

Thanks for sharing Catalana. I'll have to see if I can find that book in the library somewhere. I appreciate what you wrote, and it all makes sense to me. My only concern is that the book was written in 1991, so it won't have any of reserach from the last 20 years. But from your description, sounds pretty good to me.

Yes, the book is rather old, and I share your concern. There is other more recent research, but not a book that summarizes it IIRC.