Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional When is it more than just being gifted?

It does sound OCD-ish.

That should be relatively easy for a good psychologist/psychiatrist to rule out.

Hi, Utkallie,

Yes, this sounds like some form of 2E. The severity of your DD's reactions to things is not typical (and if you think about it, very disabling for her)-- I'd want to follow up, especially with the family history.

This sort of thing is very difficult to sort out: for instance, autism can come with shades of OCD/anxiety and shades of ADHD mixed in, so it's hard for a lay person to make a good armchair diagnosis. A thorough neuropsych exam would help you figure it out. Girls with autism are missed more often than boys, they often present very differently, so they need to be looked at closely before ruling anything out. Can you find a practitioner who's seen lots of girls with autism? Our children's hospital does a pretty good job.

As you probably know, it is a disadvantage to postpone a diagnosis if one is to be made-- the delay prevents you from establishing services right away. I can see how the psych may not have wanted to diagnose when she was 3 if he wasn't sure, but given the severity of the behaviors, it seems highly likely to me that there is something real there that should be addressed sooner rather than later.

My DS9 is a pretty extroverted, gifted kid with Asperger's/ autism. He has trouble with maintaining personal space (gets too close or stays too far away, touches people when they're not expecting it, doesn't notice they're not interested in his interests). He loves having friends but has trouble maintaining the reciprocity that comes with friendship. It's pretty hard for him, but therapy has helped enormously.

BTW, the Asperger's diagnosis is going to go away in the next DSM-- it will be lumped in with the other kinds of autism. The idea that Asperger's "shouldn't" or "can't" be diagnosed early is just based on the fact that it usually *isn't* caught early (because of the normal to high IQ feature). That doesn't mean it's not diagnosable at a young age-- the signs are all there-- just that we have a ways to go in getting people to understand what those signs look like in a bright kid, especially a bright girl.

I also recommend the OASIS website and parent forum-- there are wise and helpful people over there. http://www.aspergersyndrome.org/Home.aspx

Best wishes,
DeeDee

MumOfThree,

Your daughter could certainly be gifted with Asperger's. The description is very similar to my DS7, who was hyperlexic (read at 21 months), had impossible tantrums similar to what you describer, and has always been intensely outgoing, affectionate, and inclined to assume that everyone wanted to be his friend. Through some wonderful interventions and amazing therapeutic programs, he is doing extremely well now, though it is still challenging, and his pain can cut me to the quick sometimes. He is learning about friendships, but as other people here have described, it is a skillset that he must be taught painstakingly. I was saying to him just the other night, that he needs to remember that it isn't unfair that he gets to do 3rd grade math and 4th grade enrichment while he's in 1st grade, because the other kids who find math extremely difficult to learn (he just stares at me in horror) have mostly had a very easy time learning how to make friends and calm themselves down, which he has always needed help with. And just as the other kids WILL learn math and reading and writing in script, so he is gradually learning these skills. And as with math, the skill will get stronger through teaching and practice.

He knows about his ADHD (easier to explain, and I have it myself, so it gives him a point of identification with Dad), but we haven't told him he has Asperger's per se (he's an oversharer, so we don't need him hanging that label out for all to see right now). But he understands these issues and that he has them, so when the time comes to go into the specifics, I don't think it will be much of a bomb to drop. Truth to tell, by the time we have that conversation, his diagnostician may not be able to formally say he present Asperger's symptoms anymore. In the past year, several people who have experience with Asperger's in adults or older kids have questioned us when we mentioned it.

And yes, he really does have it--but that's the thing. Particularly with PG kids like this, the labels don't always apply in the standard ways. 2e kids are very different both from other gifted kids, and from other kids with issues.

Best of luck. I'm confident both your kids are going to do beautifully.

Sounds an awful lot like my D at that age (she is 16 now). Loonnggg tantrums, and many rules that we had to follow exactly (made me feel like a trained seal). She had trouble with personal boundaries -- she would get into people's personal space and make them uncomfortable without realizing it, which sounds like your D.

Ultimately she was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disorder. ADHD tests have been "inconclusive". We have been told by testers that she would probably test as having Asperger's, while others assure us she wouldn't; we say she "flirts with Aspergers" because she is on the border. But we have no formal diagnosis.

She is also very bright, and has done well at programs like Davidson's THINK. She is super disorganized (that non-verbal learning disorder seems to be the culprit), which keeps her from knocking the socks off every class in school. But she does pretty well, especially with some organizational support. She has come a long ways socially. Still awkward sometimes. Still...she went to a robotics training course today, and told me at the end with a laugh that she had the best social skills in the room -- meaning that the others were REALLY poor at social interaction. But in comparison, she felt pretty good.

Hang in there, you are at the age that was hardest for us. It does get better!

I don't know about aspbergers. I don't know if the things in this link are true. I don't even know if I got the link from here. If I did it was not from this thread. Here's someone's chart about Aspbergers vs. Gifted vs. 2e Aspie~GT.
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/eric/fact/asperger.pdf

Are her behaviors consistent or do they ebb and flow? Is it worse when she has been sick? Did they appear out of no where? Are there times when she does not exhibit the concerning behaviors? There is even a symptom called the exorcist syndrome when a child loses it like you have described. Does she act remorseful and ask for a hug whn she is "done"? I only ask because anytime OCD is present I suggest looking into PANDAS syndrome. My ds has it and we are soooooooooooooooo much better since we got have figured it out and gotten treatment. Doctors will resist testing someone that age for strep I would also include mycoplasma but I would run a blood test and check ASOcand Anti- DNASE titers. If they are high you might be on to something that is treatable!!!
! If you have any questions let me know.

Her behavior is pretty consistently intense and she is never remorseful. She has several tantrums throughout the day and has been doing so pretty much since birth. She was the hardest baby!

So sorry! We dealt with that in bursts due to the PANDAS and. It was a rough few years u til we figured it out! I hope you find out something soon!!!