Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Religion and HG

I haven't logged on in a while so this may be late.

I didn't provide links, but I listed a couple of authors. They are both scholars and theologians. There are many more I could list. Those two came to mind first.

I love this discussion because I have such a similar situation! My DH and I were both raised Catholic and are "half" practicing Catholics. We go to church in waves, sometimes consistent, then a few weeks off, etc. Also have a 2 & 4 year old so makes the Catholic Mass experience difficult. Anyway, we too like the tradition and community of the church, more so than the doctrine, etc. I can relate to 2giftgirls story about Butter, as my DS9 has read all the Percy Jackson/Rick Riordan series (some books twice and three times!). In the beginning, when I saw him getting caught up in the fantasy aspect of it, I had to explain that it was fiction and explained what mythology was, this helped. However, I did not use any comparison to our "God", as I knew that would provoke questions.

Funny story though, my DS9 had to do a power point presentation at school, and the parents were invited-I didn't know his topic beforehand but he was really excited about it. You can imagine how squeamish I was when he got up for his presentation and it was on Hades, the god of the underworld! That was one of those awkward moments as a parent-but I have to laugh about it now, simply because we live in a very "bible belt" part of the country. I just try to keep the faith light, not to heavy, and if the questions arise, then handle them as they come. Luckily he goes to a school with many different religions, which I, being raised a Catholic school student all my life, was never exposed to. I like the fact that he knows other religions and sees and somewhat understands their traditions as well. Good luck!

I was a HG kid raised as a Southern Baptist in the Bible Belt. When I went to college, someone had to explain to me about believing in God but not believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I asked, "How do you know which parts of the Bible to believe?"

I was confirmed an Episcopalian after college. It probably helped that I knew a couple of ordained Anglican priests who were also Rhodes Scholars.

These days I don't attend church regularly for reasons I don't entirely understand myself. They seem to have much more to do with my difficulty of breaking into crowds than any matter of principle.

But I also teach world history to 6th graders, and part of that is teaching them about major world religions. I'll be showing them the documentary "Promises" (2002) this January. In that video, Jewish and Palestinian children (9-12) both cite scripture when saying Jerusalem belongs to them, not those other people! We'll also see how different members of the same group have different opinions, and how people--sometimes--change their minds as they get older.

It's part of my game in that class to keep students guessing as to my own religion. One of them asked me the other day if I was Hindu! If they guessed based on sheer volume of material, they should probably guess that I am Muslim. I just think that learning to recognize and live with the diversity of Islamic beliefs and believers will be one of the major challenges of their age.

I don't mean to offend either, but if your own formation in the Catholic faith is limited to three classes that you attended in early elementary school, I'm not sure how you expect to be able to discuss these sorts of issues with your daughter in a balanced and meaningful way.

"In the right corner, wearing red trunks, weighing in at 200 lbs, are several large stacks of secular history books written for college educated adults.

And in the left corner, in the green trunks, weighing in at 3 lbs, is My Friend Jesus, a religious education book written for the average seven year old."

One doesn't have to be HG to see that there's a bit of a mismatch in terms of depth and rigor. If you could share your criteria for a "scholarly" work, or give specific examples of books you've been reading, perhaps others could suggest some comparable Catholic authors. (Just off the top of my head, I'd recommend anything by Fr. Stanley Jaki on the subject of science and religion.)

I'm not exactly sure what this means, but wanted to point out that observant Muslims, Jews, and even most Protestants haven't historically considered the Catholic Eucharist to be a "nice tradition." They saw it more as blasphemy, idolatry, and perhaps cannibalism. Many people have been put to death over it. It's not like a Quinceanera, or having cranberry sauce on Thanksgiving.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my husband and I are believing and practicing Catholics, and we see no conflict between our religious faith and our intellectual lives. But we are pretty hard-headed about it. I find it's often the people who are on the fence who are more sentimental. Maybe because they can just sort of blip over the uncomfortable parts, whereas we have to account for the good, the bad, and the Borgias... *and* explain it all in terms that are understandable to asynchronous 6 year olds.

We are practicing Catholics as well... I have found a way to blend my faith and my intellectual life.

DD9 has had a lot of questions the past few years, which we have dealt with the best we could. Luckily, the lady who runs the religious ed program seems to get her, which certainly helps.

Lately we are dealing with terminal illness. Her grandfather, who she is very close to has terminal cancer. That has brought up a whole host of new questions, and I really feel that she is searching for comfort from her faith. Aren't we all? She recently read the book "Heaven is for Real," which is written about a child who had a near death experience. The book did seem to bring her some comfort. Just thought I'd recommend it to anyone with children who seem to be searching for reassurance.

I guess for me, I see incompatibility in the religious requirement for faith. Faith requires that you believe something in the absence of proof (or even in the presence of proof to the contrary, such as creationism over evolution). This idea is the opposite of scientific requirements.

Depending on the age, I really don't see the faith component as being all that difficult for kids. There's a huge portion of a child's development where they rely on their parents for information, and if a parent said it, it must be true. Isn't that just like faith in the divine? And if a parent says God exists, then their faith in their parents as authoritative sources of information gives becomes faith in God.

So, most of the questions come from trying to integrate that information with anything new, especially when there's an apparent contradiction. It's just like when a kid notices the rain hood over the chimney... they know Santa is fat, they know he comes down the chimney, and they know there's no way a man of any size is going to fit. The child does not question the existence of Santa, the child questions the method by which Santa is going to get past that hood.

The REALLY difficult questions usually begin to come much later, when the child learns the benefits of questioning received wisdom and gains familiarity with the scientific method.

This thought is not original with me, but faith is not the absence of doubt any more than courage is the absence of fear.

I guess that's one of the things that bothers me the most about religion and kids: this practice amounts to teaching kids to believe whatever (even in the absence of evidence) because someone in authority said so.

FWIW, my eldest was questioning religious belief on his own when he was five and a half-ish. At that time, he started asking a lot of questions about god. I believe that people should make decisions about religion for themselves, and was strictly neutral with him whenever this topic came up (as was my husband). Example: some people believe x, some believe y. Some people believe in a place called heaven, where....

He weighed the ideas for a while, and by the time he was six or so, he had decided in favor of heavy agnosticism. It's been over five years and he hasn't changed his mind.

Most outsiders can't imagine that such a young child could make an informed decision about religious belief, and insist that his parents did it (this reaction reminds me of the he's-not-gifted-you-just-hothoused-him argument). We didn't, and he did make that decision.

I think these reactions were partially due to the idea that religious belief/faith should be the default in a child. I disagree, and wonder, "Why?"

This is how I think of it: Science tells us the how, but cannot answer the why questions. Throughout human history, religion has been about our attempts to understand the why of things. Thus, they deal with very different issues and, in my view, are therefore not incompatible.

And most of us take alot of what we call science on faith as well. I have never seen an electron, but I believe they exist. Science is a social practice and not "Truth" either. It is based on theories and using evidence to support that theory. It was once scientific fact that the sun revolved around the earth. Science is not infallible.