Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy MAPs & Lexiles & Parent Conferences...OH MY!

A MAP reading score at that level would definitely include comprehension.

Ditto what Aculady said. I've heard even really bright GT teachers make comments like that. I'm sure that there are kids who sound out and "read" stuff that they don't comprehend, but that doesn't mean that all kids who are way above grade level on reading aren't comprehending and her MAPs scores definitely support the belief that she is comprehending what she reads.

Some of the std stuff that teachers suggest or believe just doesn't apply to HG kids. For instance, I recall numerous teachers in the early grades for both of my dds saying that you should have kids read books that are a little easy for them to build confidence and not give them books that are too hard -- that they'd progress more quickly if they weren't overwhelmed with too challenging material.

That may be true for most kids but it wasn't with my oldest. We routinely read books that were right at the top of her lexile and sometimes beyond and her reading would always jump when she was stretched like that.

Thanks so much -- I feel awful actually that I haven't supported this level of reading as a mom, let alone that I didn't push for the school to (yet). Honestly, she's always been self-lead and I don't think she'd think to pick out something besides Judy Moody or Magic Treehouse without being offered it, you know? And I just assumed b/c she still enjoyed those books they were still OK. And actually her reading score from the spring -- so end of Kindergarten -- was 198. So she went up 23 points -- is that an unusual jump? Or kind of what gifted kids do? (I am having a hard time even using that term as she hasn't even been IQ tested yet, so I do not really know she's gifted for sure).

Her teacher yesterday kept saying "she's just a kid. and we don't want to push her or give her too much. she needs downtime. and you really have to make sure she is comprehending..." and like I said she said (very confidently!) she was reading at a 3rd grade level.

So, if I ask for subject acceleration, what grade would you recommend being appropriate?? Is it enough to go to second grade for reading?

I think they don't understand that with these kids, it's not usually us pushing them... they push themselves.

For example, DD6 has asked us to take her to the public library, because she wants to explore the adult section. This is a kid who I'm reading Harry Potter to at night, and a couple months ago she tried to read a little on her own, and gave up in frustration. But since then, I've caught her twice reading ahead on her own with comprehension. A couple days ago she'd read ahead a couple pages, and she asked me to pick up where she'd just left off, "Right there at 'Divination.'"

And I think this story just answered your question, Artsmartmom, because that looks like quite a jump in reading ability to me. And this seems to be her operating mode in just about everything. Blink, and you'll miss it.

Dude -- you are so right -- blink and you'll miss it for sure! Plus, she is NOT a discriminating reader at all -- I remember a friend saying her child would say that is a baby book! She really could not care less -- if it has words she'll read it, happily. She's over there reading a busy bumble bee book right now. But, I've got a list from lexile.com and am going to the library today for some more appropriate books.:)

When we first started going to the public library her FAVORITE thing was sitting in the window reading the encyclopedia -- this was like 2 years ago. I don't know what appealed to her, exactly, but it was like it was finally something with enough info for her, ya know!? Ha!

That's a really big jump. Was your DD reading a lot over the summer? It can definitely happen.

One thing to think about when your child's reading level is much higher than her grade level: In addition to reading, all the other subjects will have materials written for kids on grade level. So your DD may need more challenge than just in reading.

I would suggest setting up a meeting to discuss options based on your DD's MAP scores. Ask their advice about what to do to keep your DD challenged so that she is learning new things. There are printouts with the MAP by level, showing what a student at that level would be ready for. (I can't find the link at the moment, but I think inky's posted them.) It would be nice to find out where the other kids scoring at that level are; I would guess GT kids a grade or two up might be similar, otherwise several grades up.

Yes, she is pretty much always reading, but I wouldn't say she was reading on this level -- really just more of the same. But, she's also started quite a bit of creative writing -- like her own stories -- so maybe that can accelerate this score? I have no idea. So I am meeting with the principal on Tue. to discuss the score.

What I keep going back to is how are they going to try to discount this, considering they didn't even address it themselves initially, ya know? I mean, I always kind of waited for the day that people didn't have to "take my word for it" and yet I am still the one asking to meet about off-the-charts scores for their own testing! Does it ever become more self-evident?

In the meantime I asked for gifted (IQ) testing at the beginning of the year and was denied due to not enough data collected -- so she is currently in the midst of a "phase 2 intervention" where she is pulled out for 45 minutes per day with the gifted teacher while they decide if she is suitable for testing. So, they of course do not think MAP scores say anything about giftedness. So for now all I can hope to do is deal with this subject and at least get it straightened out.

Does anyone know if I ask for subject acceleration what grade would be appropriate?? I haven't the foggiest...

Yeah, DD seems just as happy reading her Berenstain Bears collection she's read 1000x over the last three years as she is with her newest chapter book. We recently went through her whole library to reorganize things and make some space, and while I had no problem with her hanging onto the Bears and Doctor Seuss-like material, when she tried to rescue a collection that was literally baby books, I drew a line.

Throughout her progress in reading, it has always seemed like she settles into a comfort zone for a while, then someone encourages her to stretch beyond that zone for just a bit, she proves to herself she can do it, and BOOM! She's off.

At my DS's school at the end of K, they did their reading program's assessment and it has many categories like work decoding, comprehension, vocabulary, etc. and the lowest score he got on that was his reading level. So, for my DS it was 3.9 so they said 3rd grade. His MAP for the end of K was 200. His school ability grouped for reading and he was in the highest group of second graders when he started 1st.

Yes, the summer growth is not typical on the MAP but similar to my DS's math MAP growth for the same time. I would look at the Fall K also to get an idea if your DD is actually growing much in school. I think the typical growth (as NWEA reports it) for a year on the MAP is around 6-7 points.

Finally, I don't really think the teachers understand above average MAP scores as much as we think they should. I think schools mainly use them to develop a cut score for passing the state test and kids who are above the cut score they really don't have to worry about. We tried to have a conversation with my Ds's teacher last year using his MAP to encourage some acceleration and her eyes really just seemed to glaze over. We took the printout that showed where he was for each grade level and and even after explaining it to her, it did not seem to register exactly how high that was.

But based on those MAPs, I think your DD definitely needs some acceleration in both reading and math.

In my experience, you will need to take the lead on the advocacy. Teachers have huge classrooms of kids to worry about, and if a student is doing well, they will be the least likely to get attention. And most teachers will not come across kids who are many grade levels ahead in a subject, and they won't "get" it until the scores on their own tests really sink in. Or if your kiddo does something amazing (which doesn't happen as often as you'd like, when you're trying to convince teachers!)

As for what to ask for in subject acceleration, I would really try to find a teacher who is good at differentiation. The grade level won't matter quite as much. How well/fast does your DD write? That may be a blocking point, depending on how much writing is going on in a particular class. My DS was really bad at handwriting, and he's still behind.

If it turns out that there is not an appropriate class for your DD to accelerate into, there are other options. Can the GT teacher help select materials for in-class differentiation? Can the GT teacher get a group of similar kids together across grades for reading?

I would hope that the MAP scores would be sufficient to qualify for the IQ testing, as the scores show she's several grade levels ahead of her age-mates. Good luck.