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Over the summer, DD turned 8 and seemingly turned into a teenager. I had early clues in 2nd grade walking her to school, shocked to find her so easily embarrassed by me if I so much as walked or talked in an uncool manner. Is this normal for girls, or gifted girls? She really seems to have taken the asynchronous development thing to an extreme, but academically she refuses to do more than the bare minimum. We sent her to a science camp which she liked, but the most important factor to her was the relationships and as always she had found someone older to cling to. The science part seemed an afterthought. I'm already fighting off training bras, stopping purchases of short camoflauge skirts, wondering why she refuses to shop at Children's Place. She talks of moving out and living with her friend. She semi-secretly wants to be a pop star but won't submit auditions because she says she knows she won't win. We figured out in 2nd grade that many of her anxiety and stomach ache issues that year stemmed from not feeling she fit in. She basically told us that on the first day she thought it was very childish just like 1st grade. On the other hand, when she told us a few weeks ago that she no longer wanted toys for her birthday, she was clutching her tiny stuffed puppy which she still takes everywhere. This seems to be a trend. When I asked her what friends she felt most comfortable around, she mentioned a fifth grader. I honestly believe she self-conciously feels she doesn't fit in with kids her age and this has led to her being aloof at soccer, for example, or just not feeling right around her age-mates. Sometimes I look at her face or recall some of the more profound things she has said, and I get that sense of an old soul trapped in a child's body with a child's emotions. Will this ever even out? I don't expect we will meet with much success advocating for a grade skip for non-academic reasons?  Thankfully we've put her in a 3rd grade class that has about 10 other gifted kids, so there's a chance she'll find someone like her. Has anyone experienced this too? What did you do? I believe based on her IQ that if she would apply herself academically, she could easily skip a grade or two, but she won't do it due to perfectionism, and cannot endure bland or hard work. She has no academic passions. In fact she seems lazy, like a teenager.
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Your post scares me a bit. I have a PG son who will be 8 in December. A few months ago we noticed that he seemed to be heading in this same direction. Just last weekend at a fair he said, "Mommy, you and Daddy can do whatever you like while I ride the rides *by myself*." He's seven. He's an only. He's always been glued to us. Now this? I even detected what I think may have been the very beginning of that "embarrassed to be seen with my parents" deal. He's very sweet and isn't ugly about it at all (Yes, I'm from the South, re: ugly), but to be getting the brush off like that so soon... yech...
Call me naive, but until this past week, I really and truly thought that we would just skip over that part of the growing up process. Really, I did. I don't have any answers for you, but I sure hope others do because I could use some advice. Being my only child, I'm feeling a bit cheated as we barrel through all of these phases at breakneck speed.
So, I have no answers for you other than continue to support her where she is now as she tries to figure it all out, but set some firm boundaries about what isn't going to fly at age eight. I'm still hoping that the change we saw this weekend was a fluke.
Mom2MrQ ...who is still laughing about the Lloyd Dobler clip posted on another thread. BTSDT
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Hope to offer a little reassurance, here!: DDalmost9 went through this earlier this year, but now she seems to have reverted to her pigtailed, converse-wearing, stuffed-animal-clinging self.
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My DD has reminded me of a teenager in some ways since she was in kindergarten. Her hair is very sophicated for a child. Some of her talk can be so mature. She still loves to play barbies and pretend at 8 and I know that will change so very soon.
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My daughter is now 12, almost 13. She started some very similar attitude at 8. Based on our experience, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying it gets better yet. It just gets *different.* To some degree, acting like a teenager comes off as a bit more immature, since regular teenagers don't often act like a "typical teenager." It's almost like she's going too far with it to show how much she can pull it off? Not sure what's happening in her thought process there.
But anyway, we've had ups and downs. I went through a period where I wasn't sure how to talk to her anymore, until I realized that she didn't just become a different person overnight. She's just expressing interest in new things. That realization helped our relationship a lot.
I've also tried to support more of her desires for dress or appearance, because it's about how she sees herself, not how I see her. It's a tough balance because you don't want to go too far with it. Aeropostale and Rue 21 have decent clothes that can fit kids who are at the high end of the Children's Place range.
I've heard it gets better around 15/16 if it starts at 8. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
asdgestalt.com - An autism and psychology discussion forum.
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I think the book Hold on to your Kids might be relevant here. It was very helpful to me with my dd10 and I can clearly see the issues it addresses in other kids, but it seems more intense in my dd's gifted girl friends.
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We are just starting to see this with dd 5.5. She has gone from little girl to tween seemingly in a weekend. She is completely diffent to talk to, her humor has changed seemingly over night (though I know in reality we've seen bits of this change coming for months - it's more like it's just all come together). She's insisting on being much more independent and she's suddenly stopped being so freaked out by the things that made her anxious before (though again this has been coming over the last fee months). Fortunately we're talking tween, not teen here, but I was only thinking yesterday that I think we'll be dealing with early teen here too.
Ages ago I heard Miraca Gross talking about PG kids 'teen hood'. She said parents always say to her that they are at least glad it will be over earlier - to which she said she replies that that isn't what happens - they just stay teen longer (in a kind of asynchronous way - much as you're describing).
I'm hoping for any easy bit some time in this gifted parenting journey (even a short lived one) - do you think one will ever come ?! Just when you think you have things down it all ups and changes.
Good luck! Sorry I have no advice.
Last edited by Giftodd; 09/12/11 10:14 PM. Reason: Predictive text oddness.
"If children have interest, then education will follow" - Arthur C Clarke
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I have a 9 year old. She started going through this at 8 as well. I have learned to respect it. This year, I anticipate that she will be embarassed if I walk her ALL the way to the bus stop. So I stop and watch her walk the rest of the way. The other kids don't have parents there. She wanted to put highlites in her hair. I eventually caved in and helped her. She wanted to wear black nail polish. I let her, until she proved to herself that she makes a mess of it everytime and 'gets' why I took it away. She saved up for the super high Converse and cried when she grew out of them. She's tall for her age. Very tall. She too big to be cute. I guess she just feels she needs to be SOMETHING! I have a feeling that if I don't fight it, she will be stronger for it. Justice works still for clothes, but she is very picky. She won't wear anything with animal print or shiny stuff. She won't pull her hair back. I'm so scared she going to turn goth before my eyes. I am going with it though. I have been a mom long enough to know that no matter how deep the interest is, it usually IS only a phase. I don't let her play those fashion games on the computer...ever...I don't let her watch Disney shows after school. I don't wear make-up. She still thinks I'm pretty though. So that's all I can do for now. But I do think it's normal, even for children who are not gifted. I also think that gifted kids have a hard time fitting in and might try things to make a statement. The funny thing to me is though, my dd is not dressing like anyone else she knows. Her friends are sporty types. I think she is trying to stand out. So she is being diferent. Maybe. She has been trying to get noticed for her 'smart-ness' forever. Maybe since that's not working she trying blue hair.  It doesn't bother me. I give into a lot of things because I ask myself. "WHY NOT?" The only reason I didn't want her to color her hair was because I was worried about what other moms might think of me for letting her do it. That's a stupid reason. Right? Oh and she has been wearing a bra since she was 7..a flat training bra...but she wears it when her shirt is thin. I think it's great. Aren't kids suposed to want to be like mommy?
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Ugh, my 8yo, too. So far, I've been trying to roll with the punches, and dreading the actual teen years.
Mine has started wearing a cami top under her shirt every day; she likes the ones Target carries, with bra-style straps. It's not clear to me if she's wearing them as bras, since she also will go out of the house wearing just a cami and short-shorts.
She didn't have any toys on her Christmas list last year, or any so far this year, either. Just electronics / clothes / makeup / jewelry.
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Wow, I'm very encouraged to hear this is "normal" in many ways. I am bracing for the fact that it may be an extended tween/teen phase that lasts a long time, or it may be a phase that will dry up and give me back my little girl for a season or two.
It seems extremely important to her to be this way. Being reminded that it is a phase helps me want to offer her more support.
When the DW took her to Justice for the first time and let her pick out some outfits, DD was genuinely grateful and huggy--and she's not the huggy type. It clearly means a lot to her.
On the upside, since moving DD to this more gifted-friendly school has she realized that smart might actually be cool too. I can picture her in a few weeks bringing Pride and Prejudice to recess to complement her new studded go-go boots.
Last edited by Pru; 09/13/11 10:02 AM.
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Hi Pru,
I'm a gifted child that is now 24, and I personally experienced a lot of what you are describing in your child. If it interests you I can reply to this thread with some experiences.
Generally speaking, I think what she's experiencing is very normal. I completely remember this phase of my life. I'm an only child and so I was lucky that often times I would interact with my parents friends (40 yrs+) routinely, and felt very comfortable.
I suppose there are some warnings but I'll elaborate if you're interested, just let me know.
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As the mom of a daughter I am also very concerned about the messages to girls out there in the popular culture, and I think some gifted girls may be particularly susceptible to some influences that as a parent I personally would choose to discourage. I think the book So Sexy, So Soon (also a website) and Rosalind Wiseman's stuff on girls is very applicable here too. Of course the desire to fit in is understandable...but without appropriate guidance I think we can end up in situations like the one (yes I know it is fiction) in Imperfect Birds. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125631900
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I love Rosalind Wiseman's stuff, I think she's excellent. I did just want to make a comment about wanting to look different - I never grew out of that. For me it has never regularly been about making a statement (sometimes, but I think that would be the same for most of us). I just never got in to the whole thing about everyone having to have the same stuff, look the same etc - especially because it didn't always look good on me. Having my own sense of style meant I could opt out of a lot of the competitive stuff girls have with clothes. Don't get me wrong - I'm not out there and people have called me 'stylish' in the past (I think as a compliment - LOL!), but I've always just dressed as me. There is no trend I fit in to, but I take what I like from lots of them. DD is very good at putting combinations of clothes together, often in ways that are quirky but that look great. I would draw the line at sexy stuff (though we've limited her exposure to anything remotely sexy and so she has no concept of it and her school is quite conservative in that way too), but otherwise I'm pretty open to whatever dd would like to do. DH was a goth as a teenager. He's ended up ok (so was my gifted best friend in high school too) I can imagine the goth subculture appealing to gifted kids, given it's focus on misfits and it's associations with emotional sensitivity and intensity (and the aesthetics of it can actually be quite stunning). It's got some good literary credentials as well - Byron, Poe, Wilde and Dickens among the authors who influenced/were influenced by gothic culture. I can see how it could become an issue if you were religious or a child got involved in some of the more extreme aspects of the subculture, but the latter could be said for most things. You could do worse
"If children have interest, then education will follow" - Arthur C Clarke
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I have just been thinking a lot about these issues of gifted girls fitting in lately--there was an article in the NYT about Greek life on college campuses. My experience in a sorority was generally positive, but I still don't think it is something I would encourage for my dds. I think one of the reasons it was so attractive to me was because I was not secure in my identity--if I had been familiar with giftedness and how it made me who I am(that it was more than an IQ score) it would have made a difference.
Of course this is a universal issue and our kids need to experiment to find their identities. I just don't think the popular culture has the answers, and again the book Hold On To Your Kids has made me much more aware of the importance of parents rather than peers.
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PRU! That is the funniest thing. My DD HAS in fact matched her book to her outfit.!!lol..made me laugh so hard.
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I think it is partly a girl thing and with whom they hang out. DD8 already seems teenager-like while her twin brother is far more child-like. I am not sure that the academic environment will make any difference. DD8 and DS8 are in a tracked class (around top 20%), which works one grade above although DS8 goes up an additional grade for math. In our case, it is partly the popular culture (tv., computer, older school mates).
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Last edited by lmp; 03/28/12 08:21 AM.
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Wish this site had a like button. I really agree lmp. We don't have the clothing brands you mentioned here, so I have no idea what they're like but can imagine based what similarly aged kids want to wear here. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm not big on sexy for young girls, but beyond that dd can do what she likes. Her favourite nail polish combo is alternate black and bright pink, she is looking forward to one day having blue hair (she loves here hair as it is for now) and likes to push the boundaries of her school's uniform policy by taking them at their word on anything that says that something is only 'preferred' rather than mandatory (so she often wears bright purple runners, badges all over her hat and has a surf bag rather than the standard school bag). She's confident enough to carry it off as cool even though she looks different to other kids (and really, real cool is all about being confident - it has little to do with brands and fashion).
For her it's important to look like 'herself'. She has no concept of brands, but knows the kinds of colours and shapes she likes. Like lmp I too see the value in feeling confident enough to be yourself and own your nerdiness as part of that and so I encourage her to do whatever feels right for her. Sometimes she just wants to fit in, other times she just wants to express herself. Dd is still only little, but she has a strong sense of self. As long as she's not hurting herself or anyone else, I let her be and help her out where I can. I hope that as she develops this sense of self will help her stand up to peer pressure and advocate for herself as she'll be younger than her peers. Obviously that remains to be seen!
"If children have interest, then education will follow" - Arthur C Clarke
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Wish this site had a like button. I really agree lmp. We don't have the clothing brands you mentioned here, so I have no idea what they're like but can imagine based what similarly aged kids want to wear here. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm not big on sexy for young girls, but beyond that dd can do what she likes. Her favourite nail polish combo is alternate black and bright pink, she is looking forward to one day having blue hair (she loves here hair as it is for now) and likes to push the boundaries of her school's uniform policy by taking them at their word on anything that says that something is only 'preferred' rather than mandatory (so she often wears bright purple runners, badges all over her hat and has a surf bag rather than the standard school bag). She's confident enough to carry it off as cool even though she looks different to other kids (and really, real cool is all about being confident - it has little to do with brands and fashion).
For her it's important to look like 'herself'. She has no concept of brands, but knows the kinds of colours and shapes she likes. Like lmp I too see the value in feeling confident enough to be yourself and own your nerdiness as part of that and so I encourage her to do whatever feels right for her. Sometimes she just wants to fit in, other times she just wants to express herself. Dd is still only little, but she has a strong sense of self. As long as she's not hurting herself or anyone else, I let her be and help her out where I can. I hope that as she develops this sense of self will help her stand up to peer pressure and advocate for herself as she'll be younger than her peers. Obviously that remains to be seen! I agree with this, esp. the parts I bolded. I absolutely think it is wonderful for a child to be confident and secure enough to find her own style. That is my concern. I think parents of girls particularly must be aware of the massive amount of marketing what is "cool" to "tween" girls. I think it is probably difficult for a girl trying to find her identity when surrounded by the consumerist culture and all of the images aimed at making her think that appearance/brands/etc. are the most important thing. I think it is important that we make our daughters aware of what marketing is and the messages being sent. Books like So Sexy, So Soon, Packaging Girlhood, No Logo, this article titled Stealing Childhood Stealing Childhood all address these issues. From Media Awareness network http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/parents/marketing/issues_teens_marketing.cfm"Corporations capitalize on the age-old insecurities and self-doubts of teens by making them believe that to be truly cool, you need their product. As they make the transition from childhood to the teenage years, tweens (ages 8-12) are continually bombarded with limiting media stereotypes on what it is to be a girl or a boy in today�s world. This �packaged childhood� is sold to them through ads and products; and across all media, from television, music, movies and magazines to video games and the Internet. Young girls in particular are targeted by marketers, and the focus of these ads � beauty, sexuality, relationships, and consumerism � is worrisome for parents. According to Sharon Lamb and Lyn Mikel Brown, authors of Packaging Girlhood, images of girls as �sexy, diva, boy-crazy shoppers� can be quite harmful to their self development. At an age when girls �could be developing skills, talents, and interests that will serve them well their whole life, they are being enticed into a dream of specialness through pop stardom and sexual objectivity.�
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Last edited by lmp; 03/28/12 08:20 AM.
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Well to me it's not just the parents of young girls that need to be aware it's the girls themselves. Sure dd is only 7 turning 8, but trust me she is well aware of marketing and the bombardment of sexual images in the media. Why? because we discuss it. When she was so young I remember her once saying to me...you know I notice how there are so many images of women in their underwear in magazines. They are always showing off their bodies." That just came totally out of the blue. So we had a long discussion about that.
Just as I never discriminated against her age about exposing her to academics, I didn't discriminated when talking about older topics with her either. For her, her maturity came hand in hand with her academic development.
She is young, but subject accelerated and in MS. She's taking geometry in honors 8th grade and maturity wise she's right there with the other 13/14 year olds and wants to debate the things they are talking about. She's on FB too laughing about their ridiculous posts sometimes. But FB is fun too and she makes lots of friends.
I don't underestimate her because of her age. I'm not thinking..oh you want to wear that because it's due to peer pressure. I'll give her a little bit more credit than that. When she says she likes something..I ask her why. I play devil's advocate. I ask her how come she knows she's not being influenced by movies, music..marketing.
And she usually has a good reason. Once I asked her if she likes Justin Bieber. She thought about it and said "No, he's too young and sings like a baby." This was in 2nd grade when all the girls loved him.
She saw the feathers in Miley C's hair once and said hey those are cool. She doesn't like Miley and thinks she dresses too provocatively. DD is quite a goody goody went in comes to some things. BUT feather extensions...yeah.. COOL. So what if they were marketed in Miley's hair? They are cool and something different and she liked it. I'm all for it. Dying your hair blue or pink or green? I'd do it. Why not? It's only hair.
Trying different things is fun. Being different it fun. I think that's where her self confidence comes from.
She likes to be different and is comfortable in her own skin. The other day she decides she's going to wear a fedora to school. She gets a ride to school sometimes with my neighbor's 13 year old. The older girl was shocked and said "I'm not sure hats are allowed because no one wears one. DD says "Well I like it and we'll see if they allow it." she walked right into math class with it and teacher didn't say a word and then the other kids were like..I LOVE the hat!"
It's not about brands or what things cost. It's just about being you.
I even said to her ..one day I dare you to wear the worst mismatch outfit ever and see what happens..she said.."It won't matter..clothes aren't everything."
Now that's profound. Yes, I agree with all of this. It sounds like you have a terrific kid!
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I agree with this, esp. the parts I bolded. I absolutely think it is wonderful for a child to be confident and secure enough to find her own style. That is my concern. I think parents of girls particularly must be aware of the massive amount of marketing what is "cool" to "tween" girls. I think it is probably difficult for a girl trying to find her identity when surrounded by the consumerist culture and all of the images aimed at making her think that appearance/brands/etc. are the most important thing. I think it is important that we make our daughters aware of what marketing is and the messages being sent. Books like So Sexy, So Soon, Packaging Girlhood, No Logo, this article titled Stealing Childhood Stealing Childhood all address these issues. From Media Awareness network http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/parents/marketing/issues_teens_marketing.cfm"Corporations capitalize on the age-old insecurities and self-doubts of teens by making them believe that to be truly cool, you need their product. As they make the transition from childhood to the teenage years, tweens (ages 8-12) are continually bombarded with limiting media stereotypes on what it is to be a girl or a boy in today�s world. This �packaged childhood� is sold to them through ads and products; and across all media, from television, music, movies and magazines to video games and the Internet. Young girls in particular are targeted by marketers, and the focus of these ads � beauty, sexuality, relationships, and consumerism � is worrisome for parents. According to Sharon Lamb and Lyn Mikel Brown, authors of Packaging Girlhood, images of girls as �sexy, diva, boy-crazy shoppers� can be quite harmful to their self development. At an age when girls �could be developing skills, talents, and interests that will serve them well their whole life, they are being enticed into a dream of specialness through pop stardom and sexual objectivity.� I "Like" this and am in total agreement. Thank you!
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Last edited by lmp; 03/28/12 08:20 AM.
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