Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Gifted with Slow Processing Speed Help

Hi - I am new to this site, so please bear with me! I have three children, two of whom are gifted, but typically developing in every other aspect and then there is my 8 year-old, who tested into the gifted program at our school (surprising to us that he was invited to test) and then was given an IQ test (WISC-IV) due to a springtime diagnosis of mild Aspergers and Inattentive ADD. In their behavioral observation, they note that our son is "methodical in his approach to problem-solving tasks, sometimes losing credit for items because of exceeding time limits". In the WISC-IV composite information, his PSI is two standard deviations below every other index (verbal, perceptual reasoning, working memory).

Other background for him - he is a sweet kid, but one who has never made a real friend. He has no "special connections" with anyone, but has lots of "acquaintances". He is 8 and is just learning to swim and refuses to try to ride a bike. He is very anxious about failing, gets frustrated extremely easily, and seems very "angry" a lot of the time.

When asked to do simple tasks such as brush his teeth, he will throw himself on the floor and whine and moan. When asked again, he will slowly crawl his way toward where he needs to be. When given a firm tone and consequences for not doing what was asked, he will then get angry, yell at us, and storm away (and go do what we asked!). We have no idea what is setting him off or why he can't seem to do simple things such as get dressed in the morning. If we don't have someone there monitoring him, it can take him an hour to get out of bed and get dressed. If someone is watching him and constantly reminding him, he will finish in a couple minutes. However, even in that couple minutes, he will need several reminders to stay on task.

He is entering third grade and will be starting the gifted program (a differentiated classroom with all other gifted students). We are worried that he is not going to do well. Homework (as you might imagine from struggles of getting dressed) takes FOREVER to complete. In second grade, his homework would take him hours to do because he couldn't stay focused on it. Also, our district does a ton of timed math tests and he fails them almost every time. The teacher says he knows all the answers and can answer verbally, but cannot finish the timed tests . . .

We are looking for help from anyone as to what we can do to help him succeed. We have tried more natural approaches (gluten-free, neuro-link (amino acid supplement), herbal tinctures for calm nerves, etc.) and none has "worked". I say this after doing them for about five months now with no discernible differences in behavior/concentration.

Do you folks out there think that we need to give him prescription medication? We just want him to do well and be happy. And of course, for the rest of us to be able to be happy in our home not worrying about what will set him off or whether he will have a good day or a bad day at school/home. It really is that up in the air - he can go days without having an incident at school and then he will get sent to the principal's office for his behavior (throwing things in class, writing on another student's paper, etc.). Or he can have multiple days in a row with incidents. His teachers have never been able to pinpoint any "triggers" for him just as we have no idea at home other than he gets upset when we ask him to do *anything*.

In his IEP meeting, they suggested that he be able to type up longer assignments instead of writing as writing is very difficult for him (gross motor skills and fine motor skills are not his forte - he didn't run or jump until after three years old).

If anyone has any ideas for us as to whether or not he sounds like a "typical" mild Aspergers child or Inattentive ADD child or whether it seems like something else, and what to do for him, we are all ears!

Thanks in advance for your help!

As a side note, his WISC-IV composite scores are:

VCI: 136
PRI: 133
WMI: 139
PSI: 109

He was also given the Beery Developmental Test of Visual-Motor Integration and got a score of 100, which is completely average. The tester said that his Visual-Motor skills "are average, but in comparison to his superior cognitive skills may be a source of frustration at times in the area of task completion and visual processing speed".

Hope this information can be of use!

Thanks again!

Roonil, wow in so many ways you could be describing my DD who is 9 and in yr4. She has not yet been diagnosed with anything but we are expecting a diagnosis of dyslexia, ADD and or mild aspergers later in the year...

Buying her an iPod touch for her and setting up the app "Home Routines" has changed our lives in terms of getting ready in the morning. Every single morning used to invlove screaming, recriminations, misery and running late, with things she was supposed to have done not done (piano and dishwasher most often). She now gets ready completely independantly, does her chores, a full piano practice (only 15 mins) and then usually has time to sit and play on her iPod for a while before the car. It's truly un-imaginable compared to life a few months ago. We had previously tried having the exact same list in writing, stars for good days, linked to pocket money, various other things. Some helped a little. But she would come to check the list and then forget why she was in her room when she went to get her clothes on. This just works. For her anyway.

In terms of diet, we have done the full elimination diet and found that DD has massive behavioural response to dairy and salicylate and colours/flavours/preservatives, she also gets tummy pains from gluten and salicylate. So she's on a very strict diet and it has helped a lot. Dairy alone would not have made an impact on her I don't think because she still would have had the other major irritants in there and salicylate is huge for her.

We started this diet at the end of our school year last november so we really only focused on the behavioural impact it had over our summer holidays and keeping her on it for those reasons. She's had a much better year this year academically too, including really getting into the swing of homework. We've talked to each other so often about how "Everything finally seems to be coming together this year", her piano has really taken off too. And stupidly it's taken us until this month to realise that it co-incides with the diet change. The restrictions of the diet are completely and utterly worth it for us.

We still feel she needs more help despite these recent improvements.

Hi, Roonil, welcome.

Pretty typical Aspergers. (The "mild" designation isn't in the DSM-- and for most families, the challenges that come with Aspergers are serious, no matter how smart the kid is. Sometimes doctors say "mild" to make families feel better and to recognize that the child's IQ is unaffected.) Asperger's kids have attention issues: I've never found it that significant to add in ADHD as a diagnosis for ours, but we do treat attention as part of the Asperger's.

You asked about medication. Meds have done wonders for our DS9-- but only in tandem with fairly intensive ABA (behavior therapy). I'd suggest finding someone in your area to help you with this: it was absolutely life-changing for us. People with Asperger's can learn to be compliant with instructions, and it's a great gift to them, because it helps them fit in much better and makes them more independent. But it's a lot of work (as you have noticed).

If you want to find a specialist, there's a list of resources and a good parent forum at http://www.aspergersyndrome.org . (The link to the list of docs is in the upper left corner of the home page.)

We found that the teacher in our gifted program was very tolerant of the behavioral quirks and disorganization that come with AS, and the smaller class size has been great for DS. However, some people have found it goes the other way-- in places where the gifted teacher isn't prepared to deal with a difficult child, these kids either don't get identified, or get pushed out of the program, which is a terrible experience and deprives them of appropriate work. So IMO it's important to use behavior therapy to change his behavior so that he can participate fully and take advantage of what school is offering.

Feel free to send me a private message with more questions.

DeeDee

My older dd's WISC profile looked almost exactly like that at age 7 but she does not have Asperger's or ADD, so she presents pretty differently. I'd approach this primarily viewing the Asperger's and attention problems as the issue not the processing speed. A child with avg processing speed (my dd's was actually a bit lower) can do well in a gifted program with no other complications, but your ds has other complications.

My dd has been given accommodations for extra time as needed but, beyond that, she's not needed any help and she is both grade accelerated and in advanced courses. We don't have any fully encapsulated gifted classes like you do. Does he have an IEP or 504?

It seems like the school should give him longer time for tests and assignments - even in the gifted program, as part of his IEP or 504. Is the school willing? To my mind your son belongs in the gifted program even though he might need extra time on tests - it's the depth of his thinking that matters, not the speed of his production.

The word 'mild' hit my eye also. My guess is that he has severe AS, but that he doesn't look like other kids with severe AS because of his very strong IQ. He probably doesn't 'look' as gifted as other kids with his IQ - but he is. I don't know if that helps, but looking at it that way seems to help at my house.

Stick around and keep posting - it sounds like life at your house is pretty stressful and I'll bet that you don't have many people to complain to.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks for all the support! One of my main issues is that my husband does not at all agree that our son has Asperger's. He has very little patience with him and it is very stressful for our entire household. Also, he has empathy and cries if his little sister gets hurt, etc.

Has anyone ever done the brain scans for their children? Have you found them to be helpful in understanding where a child might need more support?

I agree that we should ask for more testing time for him, but do they even consider that for someone who has average processing?

Grinity - what do you do to support your child and help them cope?

you are right that he seems completely normal and every single person I have told about his diagnosis has said, "that sounds like normal 7/8 year-old boy behavior. I can't stress to them that they haven't been hearing from their child's teacher almost every day regarding complaints over his behavior since preschool. It is difficult because as soon as he gets in trouble a couple times, he gets no leeway with teachers or students and the students are eager to catch him doing something wrong, so he gets in trouble more and more often.

Any suggestions for helping the two of us and convincing my husband would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I concur with the opinion that the giftedness complicates the presentation of the AS and the AS complicates the presentation of the giftedness.

It is a common mistake to believe that people with AS have no empathy. People with AS often have difficulty seeing things from another's perspective, but that doesn't mean that they lack empathy or feelings. They also often have difficulty assessing another person's mood or meaning from non-verbal cues, such as tone of voice or posture, and they may have difficulty expressing themselves appropriately through these modalities, but this doesn't mean that they don't have empathy, only that they may have difficulty reading and expressing emotions fluently in social settings. If his little sister gets hurt, and he knows she is hurt, it is perfectly normal for him to be upset even if he has AS. Gifted individuals with AS may have more capacity for self-analysis than the typical AS individual, but not necessarily more self-control, or more ability to modulate their emotional responses, which can complicate the process of getting an accurate diagnosis, and can be really frustrating for other family members, who may believe that because a child is bright and knows what correct behavior is, they should be able to control their responses.

AS causes problems with attention and executive functioning, which looks like "not caring", and being disorganized and "off task" frequently. AS often manifests with problems with balance and coordination, (Hans Asperger's original group of patients that he used to propose the syndrome were all "clumsy" boys) which can cause difficulty with both fine and gross motor tasks, and result in delayed, slow, or poorly-formed handwriting, difficulty learning to tie shoes, and/or delayed acquisition of skills like swimming and riding a bike. Sensory integration problems are a common clinical feature - certain kinds of foods, touch, clothing textures, lights, smells, or sounds may be irritating or intolerable to the AS individual, and may provoke a response that seems out of proportion to the stimulus, or they may seek out these stimuli in a way that seems out of proportion.


Anxiety and high levels of frustration are common in AS individuals. They are typically exerting a very high level of effort to cope with the demands of their environment on a nearly-constant basis, and may not understand why things are happening the way they are, even though it may look to a parent, teacher, or peer like they are not even trying do what they are supposed to, and their coping mechanisms for dealing with overwhelmimg stress (fidgeting, chewing things, tapping, rocking in chairs, etc.,) may get them into even more trouble.

It is very common for ordinary discipline measures, such as taking away privileges, star charts, time-out, etc., not to work with AS children the way they do with other children. It can be very stressful, and it can feel like your child is being deliberately oppositional and disrespectful. They almost certainly are not. Remember that they don't like being yelled at, criticized, or punished any more than you like yelling, criticizing, or punishing them, and they are not trying to provoke you. Accepting the diagnosis, getting appropriate OT and a "Sensory Diet" in place, and finding opportunities to praise what my son was doing right, even if it was tiny little baby steps in the right direction, has made a huge difference in the overall level of stress in the household. You might want to check out "The Nurtured Heart Approach".

I wish I had something more helpful to add. Know that you are not alone.

My dd12 got more time and her processing speed was pretty avg. Hers was in the 42 percentile which was something like a 97 on the PSI. Her other indeces, like your ds', were in the upper 90s, though, so it was a big difference.

I believe that her 504 was based on both the major discrepency btwn what she could do and how fast she could do it and that she had an OT diagnosis of SPD and dyspraxia. I'm actually not sure that I'd label her with either although she is overresponsive to noises and very cautious.

I would think that, with both the ADD diagnosis and the lower processing speed in relation to other skills, it would be entirely reasonable to get a 504 with extra time. The ADD alone should warrant that type of accommodation if it helps him perform more on par with his ability.

My DD is a gifted dyslexic. Her PSI was in the 97th percentile but she still gets extra time. It is more a function of needing extra time to achieve to her full potential.

I would think that most kids could benefit from extra time to reach their full potential. I see students getting cut short all the time. We live in a very fast paced world these days, and the fast fish often gets the worm. The 97th percentile for processing speed is extremely high, even among the gifted.

Unless you see signs of something like a seizure disorder (not entirely uncommon among people with autism), or a specialist professional recommended this, I don't think it would be useful.

Who diagnosed your child? Do you have a full neuropsychological workup, or are you moving ahead based on information from school professionals? One advantage to the complete battery of tests is that you should get a report that suggests what the school should accommodate, as well as what kinds of therapy they recommend. Our testers gave us tons of information and a good push toward treatment professionals we are still using today.

The full testing workup typically does not include any kind of brain scan-- there would be an IQ test, achievement testing, behavior rating scales filled out by parents and teachers, direct observation of the child, language testing, and sometimes hearing/vision screening. Other tests can be added depending on what they find.

Convincing your husband: this is hard. Some parents hate the thought that anything could be "wrong" with their child, even though denial means the child won't get the help he needs. The OASIS Guide to Asperger Syndrome is a helpful beginner's book, if he's willing to read it and consider it. If not, try to get your husband into situations where your son is with other, NT kids his age. Events like cub scout meetings always throw the oddities of an AS child into fairly sharp focus, for better or for worse.

Hope that helps--
DeeDee

DD tests as having a high processing speed but she has dyslexia and dysgraphia. She really needs the extra time for her writing and especially editing her spelling. Her brain works quickly but her output does not match what's going on inside her head. I just mentioned it to point out that an "extra time" accommodation is not ruled out by high processing speed. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my earlier post.

To be clear: I don't think the original poster's child's main issue is slow processing speed: the behavioral problems sound to me typical of Asperger's.

We are told by our neuropsych that standardized test scores tend to become more coherent and slightly higher as serious behavioral issues of the kind the OP describes are remediated. I'd focus on remediating behavior first in this case.

DeeDee

I agree. Hands-on observation with agemates has been very helpful to DH. Putting him 'in charge' if possible, so he will really focus on the whole group. Often when the children get diagnosed with a 2E issue, especially ADHD and AS, one (or both) of the parents have an A-Ha moment as well. If not themselves, then a close family member who they always wish they could have helped but couldn't.

If you can ask DH's family members what he and his sibs were like as a child, it might give you helpful 'factoids' to 'connect the dots' with DH. As in: "That it dreadful when DS did X yesterday, wasn't it?...sure reminds me of that story your mom tells about when Y did Z."
DH: "No that was totally different because A,B and C"
You: "Oh, I see."
But even if DH responds 'negativly', it gets the wheels turning, which is the babystep you need.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

What worked best for my child was for me help him develop his 'inner wealth' which is what the 'Nurtured Heart Approach' folks call that ability to not be thrown into the hurricaine by what goes on around one. Like the poem 'If' http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175772
which still makes me cry - what a vision for a Mom to have of raising a son like that!

So I guess step one is to printout the poem and post it where you can see it - or a different poem that captures for you what the 'end product' you want is.

Then I used the Nurtured Heart Approach - I think the best teaching book is called "Transforming the Difficult Child" by Lisa Bravo.

Before that I had used 'special time' extensively, and I think that was also very important. Special time is a protected 'date' with the child where the child gets to choose the activity and the parent devotes themselves to 'taking the follow.' (instead of taking the lead - LOL!)
Here's a link where a mom talks about special time:
http://www.handinhandparenting.org/news/17/64/How-Special-Time-Works-with-Teens
Lots of good resources to read at that website. I did use that general approach.

So when I added the Nurtured Heart Approach, "No Crying" wasn't a rule for our family, because I really bought into the idea that crying and laughing are outward signs of important inner emotional work.

"No Yelling, No Breaking, No Badgering, No Kicking, No Hitting, No Arguing" all were rules though.

And of course - Self Nurture was a giant key to the whole process. I put a priority on getting tons of support for myself in general, and more during the difficult times.

But yeah, I do still get a chill in the pit of my stomach when the home phone rings around 6pm. That seems to be when schools and camps choose to call with negative reports. But it's rare for that to actually happen nowadays, and the chill is milder. Much milder!

I hope that helps.
Grinity