Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy intro and ?s about educational needs per scores

Sharon I am pretty sure that Grinity may have made a mistake predicting a DYS level GAI for kid#1. I could also be wrong but am guessing it won't be much higher than the FSIQ, as you say neither the VCI or PRI are super high. Kid#2 might not even have a much higher than FSIQ because his VCI is not super high but the WMI is, which will be lifting the FSIQ but won't count in the GAI.

But even without Grinity's years of experience I completely agree with her to do what works now and make changes later if you have to. I agree it's not ideal to have to reverse a skip, but there are a number of ways to do it that can be positive. A child that passionately hates school (and brings their anger home to share with the whole family) or determinedly underperforms may be harder to reverse.

Sharon, just revisiting the GAI question - have a look at this thread:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ge_discrepancy_in_WISC_I.html#Post106352

This is an example of both VCI and PRI being VERY high, but the supporting WMI and PSI are more "normal" so they pull the FSIQ down but the GAI is very very high. The GAI would reflect the child's incredible reasoning ability, the FSIQ may (or may not) be a better reflection of how they perform in the classroom. The GAI tells you that you have a child with truly extraordinary giftedness the FSIQ tells you it's possible they may perform like a more "normally gifted" kid. It's possible for a child with scores like that to either be under estimated or to be constantly asked why they don't try harder, why they are underperforming, etc.

Hi,

Thx for all the ideas, here are the full scores for both to help with the discussion.

My 8yo,
WISC IV (% means percentile)
FSIQ 135 99%
VC 134 99%
Similarities 14
Vocab 15
Comp 18
PR 129 97%
Block design 12
Picture concepts 15
Matrix reasoning 17
WM 123 94%
Digit Span 14
Letter-Number sequencing 14
PS 123 94%
Coding 15
Symbol Search 13

Woodcock Johnson, 3rd add.
Reading Comp 121 (91%)
Passage Comp 123
Reading Vocab 113
Math 133 (99%)
Applied problems 127
Quantitative concepts 129

My 6yo
WISC IV (% means percentile)
FSIQ 143 99%
VC 128 97%
Similarities 12
Vocab 16
Comp 16
PR 145 99.9%
block design 18
picture concepts 16
matrix reasoning 18
WM 141 99.7%
digit span 16
letter-number sequencing 18
PS 121 92%
coding 12 (said this may be due to his handwriting skills as yet still developing--it's pretty bad when he's not trying hard and it a hurry--can be great when he takes the time)
symbol search 15


Woodcock Johnson, 3rd add.
Reading Comp 141 (99.7%)
passage comp 139
reading vocab 129
Math 165 (99.9%)
applied problems 154
quantitative concepts 150

We have very bright men in our family who are engineers, one scored a perfect 1600 on the SAT in high school and went to the NC School of Science and Math. We know where it's coming from but not sure of its extent.

I do not plan to even try to skip my oldest, not ready socially and his writing needs to catch up. He loves math and science but hates structure. He has begged to be home schooled but I know he would be just horrible for me--not an option.

Is my 6yo exceptionally gifted? He seems to meet the LOG 4 in Ruf's book based on his early readiness signs/achievements. How does grade skipping him where he'd still need one to two years higher advancement in math help him out? His handwriting and composition skills are certainly not at a 3rd grade level yet even if he can do the work.

Are you guys saying his FSIQ is suppressed by the WISC-IV sd scale? Should he have taken an extended test?

thanks,

If my calculations are correct the GAI for Child#1 is 138 and for child#2 is 144.

Ok--thanks for the GAI clarification. We don't seem to have any problems with a big discrepancy in that area as the boys scores are relatively even in their profiles--my 8yo, in particular, was noted to be very consistent across his scores.

Would still love to hear how grade skipping actually works when it doesn't solve the level the child needs to be taught to. In our district, they are implementing a new compressed 4th/5th grade math curriculum for qualifying students next year. Unfortunately, he needs 4th grade math THIS year, sigh. I appreciate that more options are being developed, we just have to get through elementary (K-5) and then there are a ton of advanced options. Also, our middle school shares the campus with our elementary so going their for advanced math, etc. is certainly an option by 4th grade I would think. The high school is just down the road, maybe 2/10 of a mile--again with all AP classes you can think of and a large population (2500 students) from which to draw peers. I don't want to muck up what is down the line by being impatient now.

I've thought about pulling one/both kid out during the school day for enrichment classes I can drum up as part of their curriculum. I know another parent who does this for her gifted kids. Thoughts?

Shannon

These are astute comments, and you are very accurate. When I watch her in the classroom, she doesn't even look gifted (but there are social factors at play there too - she explained that no-one likes the girl who knows all the answers, so she only puts her hand up second). She has been known to take 2 school days to complete a simple assignment i.e. draw a picture of what you did at the weekend, and write a sentence to describe it. (Apparently she couldn't decide what to draw.) Even at home, we don't see reading etc. that would suggest anything very impressively beyond the typical child. She is reading Flower Fairy books for herself, but we are reading-aloud Swiss Family Robinson together.
However, when you interact with her she is awesomely, in-your-face, unmistakably smart, and even strangers remark on it after a brief conversation. I have seen her (age 5 yrs.) genuinely out-argue a smart tenure-track professor colleague of mine on a philosophical point. If you want a practical problem solved or a schedule organised, she is your woman!
She either can't or doesn't put her abilities out there though...

Thank you for your comments - they help me think about how I can best support her.
Nadro

I am so glad that was useful and not offensive, I nearly deleted my post, I was so worried. Then my kids distracted me :-). I have spent a lot of time reading and thinking about the spikiness because I have one of my own - but not nearly so out there as your girl!

Have you done any reading about gifted girls and under achievement? There is a degree to which being socially aware that no-one likes a know it all is a useful skill, but when it inhibits achievement it becomes a problem... And it will make it harder for you to identify the difference between can't and won't.

Sharon,

You have almost identical situation (the test results) as ours. Mine are girls age 7 & 9. DD9 will be in 5th grade coming school year and DD7 will be in 3rd. They skipped kinder when they started school. DD9 is doing well in her class but not outstanding but my DD7 is way beyond her peers (some are 2 yrs older in her class). The school does not do subject acceleration and (after discussion with CTY result in hand) the principal suggested to skip another grade for DD7. We decided against it on following grounds:

1) we are not thinking of sending her to college at young age so why rush
2) she may miss out on valedictorian, competitions, etc...(as you said)
3) even though she is mature for her age, she may not handle peer pressure well (especially in middle school)
4) to preserve my DD9 psyche

We are supplementing after school. They would bring some books to read after they finish their works. DD7 usually finish real quick and sometimes help out her friends (with teacher permission) and she enjoyed that. She likes the fact that she is doing 2-3 grades above what other kids in the class are doing. That gives her incentive/motivation to learn ahead.

So far, it is still working. I think there is no clear blueprint for our kids' success. We have to adjust on their abilities and consider their emotional and social developments (rather quickly).

I hope you find what works best for you.

My DD9 knows that DD7 is smarter than her and she was OK with that (most of the time). No. 4 is not the only reason but one of them, at least for now.

We are monitoring their progress and we may change our plan if necessary. Most of the people believe that teaching/tutoring other kids won't help for gifted kids. But we want them to become well-rounded individual and develop leadership skills. DD7 is doing it on her own and we don't want to take that away from her. She felt the classes in school are too easy but she did not feel bored because she always find something to do (helping the teacher do correction, etc...) When she starts losing interest, we will switch to our plan B or C.

I think tutoring other kids is a great way to develop patience and a deeper understanding of concepts. I tutored other kids for pay all through high school and college. Based on my own school experiences, I would be cautious about having a situation where your daughter is acting as a teaching assistant for her own classmates, though. This kind of social dynamic makes it harder to develop peer-to-peer relationships as it puts the child who is tutoring and correcting work in a position of authority over her classmates, and marks her as not really being part of the class.

Edit: To clarify, I think informal "helping out her friends" is fine, provided that that is not used as a substitute for her having an opportunity to learn new things. But I think that a situation where this is routine or she is expected to help other kids after she has done the class work should be avoided.