Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional IQ/ability testing: how, when, where, why?

How/where do I get DS tested for IQ/ability, and which test/s should be used?

DS was tested by the school when he was four using I don't know which tests (can't find the paperwork right now--they were not the standard tests), then tested again last year with the OLSAT and the ITBS for entry into the Gifted/Talented program. None of these tests measures IQ as far as I know. He is currently seven years old. Is it important to know IQ (for education reasons) or no? Should I be trying to get outside testing for DS so we can get a more specific measure of his abilities? The objective is to secure more appropriate day-to-day educational opportunities for him in school (like acceleration in certain subjects). He is generally not allowed to participate in gifted classes/camps because he has Asperger Syndrome. Our not-so-great public school and private tutors are our only options.

Orson,

I am very new to all of this so I may not be the best person to answer your question, but I'll give it a go!

When I decided to have my son tested, it was because I felt his performance at school did not match his true ability and I wanted "proof" that he was capable of more. I also suspected that he had some issues with learning disabilities...making him twice exceptional. Your son would also be considered twice exceptional because of the giftedness and Aspergers. Anyway, a full psycho-educational assessment by a psychologist that specializes in twice exceptional children would be ideal. This would give you the "proof on paper" that you need to advocate for your child. Twice exceptional children are complicated and I think the more information you have, the more power you have to make sure your child receives the best educational opportunities for him.

Hope this helps.

How do I find someone like that to give the test, and which test/s should be given? We have proof on paper so far--DS excels in every subject and is in the G/T program--but the school still balks at giving him any kind of accelerated curriculum. So I need some kind of indisputable "gold standard" test that will force their hand.

Here's a good list of articles on Hoagies, with a list of testers familiar with GT kids. I'm not so familiar with 2E, but maybe the list also IDs testers who are familiar with 2E kids. Psychologists familiar with gifted

Does your school have any sort of guidelines, rules, or experience with acceleration that you can refer to while saying that your child meets all the criteria? I'm not sure that outside testing will necessarily "force their hand" as you say. Some schools won't accept any outside testing. Before you get outside testing, I would make sure you know what the district will allow.

Also, the Iowa Acceleration Scale provides a nice objective checklist for whether a subject or grade acceleration would be appropriate. There is a lot of discussion of that on this board, if you do a search.

Achievement testing also worked for us, with the school using its own testing. Does your school do NWEA MAP testing by any chance? That is a very good test to show what your child already knows. We were not dealing with 2e either, but we did have outside IQ testing in hand before we approached the school. It led to some discussions, but no acceleration until after the school did the MAP testing and saw how far ahead our kid was.

Since your son is already in the GT program, what are your goals? Full grade or subject acceleration? The MAP is great to find other kids who have similar scores who might possibly be grouped.

Oh my goodness gracious, has Asperger's and so not permitted to participate? That is specifically prohibited by the US Department of Education Office of Civil Rights.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20071226.pdf

We have only had one school (private Montessori) come right out and say that DS would not be accepted due to Asperger's. The director did not even want to meet with him. She said, "The kids here all have to work together, and we've had Asperger kids in the past and it just hasn't worked out. We had one boy who didn't like the other kids in his personal space. That kind of thing just doesn't work here in our program." This was several years ago, and I would have filed an OCR complaint at the time had I know it was illegal for them to reject him based on his disability. I was under the impression that a private school could do anything it wanted.

But most private schools/camps/programs are more savvy than this. They give themselves an "out" in their fine print. Something along the lines of "If you don't follow our rules, you will be asked to leave." So Asperger-related behavior issues can fall under the category of "discipline problem," and the school/camp/program is free to kick the child out. DS has been asked to leave one preschool and one day camp. Just a few weeks ago I tried to sign him up for a little science camp at a local private school. When I informed the teacher he had AS she emailed back to say she "had concerns" about admitting him. This is what we've been dealing with for five years.

Private schools/camps/programs do not have to provide any support services to kids with disabilities, so the kids cannot participate if they need extra help. DS mainly needs help with the social aspect--he has difficulty mixing with other kids and working with them (he might just clam up and stare into space in a group of kids)--but private schools do not offer this kind of help as a rule, and have very little tolerance for difference. In my experience, gifted programs can be the worst offenders--they expect a goody two shoes and have little patience for a kid who acts "weird."

DS does not act out in any outrageous way (the "normal" kids in his class are much more rowdy, wild, noisy, bratty, etc.), but he might have trouble attending to tasks without reminders and that sort of thing, because he can become overwhelmed in groups of other kids. But trust me, even the public school goes ballistic over this. Schools/camps/programs are run like the military now. Even the so-called "Montessori" schools do this. They claim to be about creativity and individuality, but they are really very interested in the kids being in lockstep with "Montessori" notions of collaborative work and how to behave. That's been my experience anyway.

The difference is in the 2e. My son has special needs and an IEP. So-called "giftedness," believe it or not, is actually a part of his disability. He is not developing "normally" (academics very, very high, social IQ very low) and the school has to find ways to accommodate his disability. If, for example, he can better access the school curriculum if he is given challenging work in a specific subject area, the school can be asked to give him more challenging work in that specific subject area. They may refuse, because it's more work for them. But the law in on my son's side.

Our school has no system in place to accelerate anybody in a subject. But school policies of this kind are not carved in stone. They are fluid and flexible, although the schools generally try like hell to claim they can only do this and not that. They can accommodate these kids if they care to. It's just more work, and it requires progressive, creative thinking. Good luck with that in the average public school, at least where I live (in the South).

High-ability kids with ASD almost always get the short end of the stick. A "normal" highly gifted kid gets a lot more freedom in school (he can participate in anything w/o an aide, for example), and a "low functioning" child with a disability gets a completely individualized curriculum, as per the IDEA. My son gets a dash of each, and it's not particularly effective.

We could ask our school to do more testing, but just last year they did that for the G/T program, so I doubt they'll want to spend more time testing him. The G/T program in our school is a pull-out twice a week that focusses on math and reading. The same stuff they do in the general ed class because it's what's on the stupid standardized tests the kids all have to take for NCLB. My son needs a break from constant math/reading test prep that goes on year after year. It's boring him to tears, literally.

Nothing in our state in that Hoagie's link, unfortunately.

Orson, for testers you might check out http://www.aspergersyndrome.org . In our experience testers who really know autism and have seen a lot of kids do better coping with the gifted part than vice versa anyway.

There is also a nice parent forum there-- very worthwhile.

Regarding schools: private schools are allowed to discriminate. And they are right in thinking that they are probably not equipped for the challenge of educating your child-- their teachers are usually less qualified and less experienced, they do not usually have special ed teachers on staff, nor do they normally provide the ancillary services a kid on the spectrum typically needs.

Not that it's nice for you to have no options, but you can see that many private schools are not going to be a better fit than even a modest public school-- the parents who are paying a lot to educate their kids don't want kids like yours (and mine) in there, and those parents would complain and get your kid kicked out, so it's better to just not start with that. There are private schools that help kids with AS flower, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I agree with you about gifted programs; they tend to be very exclusive and want children with a perfect behavior record. We have found this too. I sympathize completely.

Our best moment was when our public school realized DS will *behave better* (less disruptive, more sociable) if he gets all the gifted services he needs, including advanced content. That was a real game-changer. Has your advocate worked on the gifted stuff, or just the IEP itself?

Best wishes,
DeeDee

This is exactly what we know and what we're currently fighting for. We don't have an educational advocate. Hired one last year, but waaaay too rich for our blood. It's like having a lawyer on standby! Actually quite tired of the whole industry suddenly cropping up to take money from parents of ASD kids. It's an abomination, in my opinion. We pay twice as much for everything because we have a child with ASD. Some states/cities offer free advocates to work with parents and the schools. Not here. And if there was such a thing here, they'd surely be on the county's dime and therefore useless to us. If you're fighting your school for services, you need an impartial individual.

That's the point. Your LD school was a specialty school, set up to serve kids with special needs. Those schools don't discriminate against LD kids, because that's who they are set up to teach. We're talking about your run of the mill private or "prep" school, like, say (just to pick a famous one), Phillips Exeter Academy.

Public schools, of course, cannot discriminate, which is why, as you point out, the G/T programs in public schools accept a kid who tests into the program. Note, however, that without appropriate supports (like a paraprofessional), an ASD child may not be able to participate in the G/T class, and many drop out of it, even though he has the test scores and academic ability to be a part of the class. There is actually a whole book about this called Gifted Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder. The book essentially says, "Many gifted kids with ASD will not be able to participate in gifted programs." So even though the public school can't outright discriminate, they can (and do) leave a lot of ASD kids without the supports needed to be successful in certain "extras" like G/T. Most G/T teachers have absolutely no training in special ed or autism. So they get these kids in their classes and don't know what to do with them. It's a shame, really. These really, really bright kids are falling by the wayside because many teachers are not willing to get to know them and understand what makes them tick. A good teacher teaches all kids, not just the easy ones. You'd think G/T teachers would be used to kids who are different! In our experience, no. They are used to teaching kids who are very near "perfect," in grades, behavior, and even physical appearance.

My DS is in the G/T program in his school. It's just not a very good program, and it's just a pull-out a couple times a week that focusses on the same things they focus on in the general ed class, i.e., it's "enrichment" rather than different or accelerated subjects. Better than nothing, but pretty boring.

As I said in my earlier post, there exist private schools that make it work beautifully. (They are very uncommon.)

I will note, though, that the private schools that cater to LD students in our area do not routinely accept students with autism; they remediate dyslexia, ADHD, and LDs only. Gifted ASD students do fall through the cracks, especially if their behaviors are problematic enough to make inclusion difficult.


Our DS was the first diagnosed autistic kid in our school's GT program within the long memory of the staff, but the G/T teacher has been wonderful; she is used to "quirky" and has been a huge asset to DS. This is a case where supportive school staff and a well written IEP can make all the difference.

DeeDee