Hello
I have a DD5 who will be starting kindergarden in fall. We just had her tested and she is HG+. She was extremely bright and accomplished during her first three and a half years of life, but then slowed down for the past year in pre-K and wants badly to fit in. She is artsy and also loves math. She is not interested in reading and fights efforst to teach her- she says she will teach HERSELF when she is ready- she self-teaches math so i do believe she will excel at reading when she is ready.

She now attends a montessori school but next year we are tryint to decide between
1) public school with no gifted proram until 3rd grade
2) Gifted School with acceleration up to three years in all areas (but light on the arts)
3) Waldorf School- which i believe is very artsy but light on the intellectual/acadmic.

I am most curious if anyone has had any experience with Waldorf.

thanks
irene

I have no experience personally with Waldorf schools, but my best friends are very much committed to Waldorf-- they have a 7-yr-old and a 5-yr-old who are absolutely thriving, and I'm sure the kids are gifted-- their father is a prominent playwright, and their mother is a professor.

They are great kids. The 7-yr-old is now doing drawings that amaze me-- truly amaze me. The mother has even found a few naked lady drawings in his notebook. And they're pretty good!

That said, they are not gifted in the way my son is gifted-- the way that demands attention and accommodation.

Or perhaps it's just my son's hypersensitivity that causes problems. I thought he needed structure and acceleration to keep from going off the rails.

So I chose your option #2, but it's not going that well.

My friends have always insisted that all my son's issues could be resolved by Waldorf schooling. They do seem a bit overzealous to me at times.

I do think Waldorf is a great gift to give your children, in this overstimulating age.

Let me preface this by saying that I don't know much about Waldorf in general, only our local school.

It's a beautiful place and in theory, a wonderful education for any child. However, I think you have to really know and understand your child and your family situation. I was told that my DS would NOT be allowed to read at school until 7. Period. The heavy focus on imagination kept books out of the classroom. We were also told that we would have to sign a family pledge to try to eliminate technology from our home, not allow DS to watch TV or be on the computer and to become a vegetarian or at a minimum, full organic household.

Our entire extended family is full of computer programmers. We have 5 in our house. DS learned to be self-sufficient on the computer at 2. He loves to play educational games. Yes, I screen his TV programs but certainly not NO TV in our house. It just doesn't fit our style.

Yes, CAMom, same here. When we were investigating moving DS at the end of first grade, we realized that we were too far gone in the realms of plastic toys and technology to backtrack. Not only that, but at the time, we were being advised that it would be best for DS to type rather than write, so we couldn't do without the computer.

I'm a bit leery of rigid agendas, and doubly so if the agenda extends to someone's home.

I'm not convinced that making everyone fit someone's idea of what's best (eg, no technology) is a good thing. In the case of children in school who have no say in making the rules, I'm extremely dubious.

I wonder if Waldorf schools have websites...?

Val

We also looked at Waldorf. I didn't see how it could possibly work for us given our use of technology (both my husband and I started our careers as software engineers and have technical degrees). And given my son's learning style as well. It just seemed too slow paced in general and there seemed to be very rigid rules about what a child would do when.

If the no tech approach is what you naturally do anyway, it could work depending on your child's personality. I could especially see it working during the early grades. My almost 5 year old daughter would probably love it right now (my son never would have). Although, we could definitely not make the no computer commitment. We'd be ok without TV, but the computer is pretty big at our house.

Our local Waldorf has an extensive website! Pretty funny.

There is a video on Waldorf schools that you can rent through netflix. It was 45 minutes long or so and it explains everything except the Rudolph Steiner philosophy. It makes a difference how into the Steiner stuff the school is because it is almost like a religion, so if they are serious, you'll want to be sure you're comfortable with that.

Does your daughter like touchy-feely stuff (massage, spirituality) in addition to liking art? (It sounds like a good fit so far, though.)

ps - My friends who have a DS at Waldorf absolutely love it. But they agree 100% with the philosophy and live it. I like the idea of the philosophy, but we were too far gone to turn back.

I agree. We are homeschooling now. That is another life style choice that not everyone can do. I consider Waldorf similar. I know several people very happy with Waldorf. Including one family that has a child that is at least MG. But it very naturally fits into their lives. I love the idea of lots of it, and actually homeschooling I am trying to get my kids into more hands on stuff - cooking, hand crafts, gardening, building, designing etc. But it doesn't feel right to change what was fine and working for us, to fit into a school.

I do know one family that sent their son to Waldorf and has not been happy with it. They are choosing not to send their 2nd child there and their first son was demanding additional curriculum after school. It clearly wasn't the right fit for them! I think it was a good fit for preschool and kindergarten for them though.

I agree..to become a well rounded adult you need diversity as well as boundries

hi everyohne
thanks for all teh great info! I will khow a lot more about what to ask when i go on the rour. My liitle girl is really into movement, crafts, etc. so it might end up being a good fit. We are already aa 99% tv free family and don't have video games so that part actually sounds good to me . I am also a programmer but find it just something i want to leave at work.. i'm really curious now how the tour will go.

irene

I have a friend who had her daughter in a Waldorf school. She pulled her daughter after she noticed her child went from a fun-loving kid to very self-concious, shy one. Apparently, at this particular Waldorf school, they choose one kid to be "it" all semester. The teachers encourage the other kids to pick on the "it" child. My friend's child happened to be "it" that semester, and my friend had no idea. It was explained to my friend by the school administrator that they did this for two reasons - 1) the "it" child learned to take teasing and bullying and how to stand up for him/herself and 2) the other kids learned how to work in a group dynamic, etc. My friend was appalled and pulled her child immediately.

Again, I am sure that not all Waldorf schools do this, but there are some out there. Like Montessri schools, Waldorf schools come in many different flavors. I don't know how you'd go about asking if they have a habit of doing something similar to what I described above, but it would be a good thing to ferret out.

Best of luck,

MM

We have some friends who absolutely LOVED the Waldorf school and it fit their life perfectly. Another set of friends found it was a great school for their older child but not so much for their middle son. As as the older child got older, the fit became less... they are now homeschooling taking a bit of the waldorf experience and complementing with other methods which work well for their children. Frankly, for me, it was less about the tv/computer stuff - while we're not 100% free, we're a pretty light household on the screen time so that would not have been too difficult - but i have two major concerns:
1) i agree with Val that when a philosophy at school dictates your home life to such a degree, it makes me a bit leery. I am all for engaging parents in education - i think it's critical - but... i think there's a limit to how much you can tell a family how to *be*
2) and i think this was most critical for us - the reading thing. My son self taught to read before turning 4. We never pushed it, it was just something he did. He has ALWAYS been a bookworm and loves nothing more than to curl up with a good book (or two or 10...) and read. To be in an enviornment where reading isn't encouraged AT ALL until 7 (which he just turned), would have been crippling to him. That was enough of a reason for us to search elsewhere...

Good luck to you! it's such a blessing to find the place where your child *fits* and is happy. I wish you the best!!!

Sheesh! School-sanctioned bullying. How fabulous.

I don't think this is the norm at Waldorf schools. Thank goodness for that, huh?

Ever seen an angry redheaded mother? I'd have to give that teacher a private lesson on bullying!

i'll have to ask about the "it" game when i go to tour. That would be a deal breaker for sure.
irene

My friend who loves Waldorf has had her son in 3 different Waldorf schools (b/c of geographic moves) - none of them played the "it" game. I can't imagine that's part of the global philosophy or the curriculum.

Me either! I got the feeling warm, fuzzy, and inclusive would be more typically Waldorf from the school we visited.

I don't think it's the norm. Then again, neither did my friend. At least, now Irene can know to look for and/or ask about it. I have also found that this type of bullying, turning a blind eye to it by the teachers isn't unheard of; it depends on how the school interprets and applies the Waldorf pedagogy.

Please go into this with your eyes open. Before you make a decision I encourage you to read more. Google waldorf bullying you'll find it is fairly widespread. I also encourage you to read more about Waldorf and science. http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles.html And, to find out more about anthroposophy to find out if it will fit with the philosophies of your family.

This is anecdotal and may sample size is small, but every person I know who put an early reading gifted kid into a Waldorf school was told that the child had developmental problems. There was no positive acknowledgment of giftedness.

hey all
just to let you know i passed on Waldorf- there were things i just loved and things that just seemed too abstract and hard to grasp about it. And bottom line i can't entertain spending 16K a year for it- i would have to be wowed by all aspects to consider that type of sacrifice.

The "school for the gifted" was too regimented and "work-booky" for lack of a better word.

So we are going to give the public school a try and see how it goes. We're in a huge district which seems to have a large GT population...I feel like i am partially homeschooling my older child now (creating my own homework, etc.) so that will probably be how it will go with her too.

WHY are "schools for the gifted" so work-booky????

Almost all schools are work-booky, from what I've seen. I guess the pervasiveness of workbooks gives them a lot of inertia.

Along those lines, has anyone else thought that the passages in reading workbooks and textbooks can be dreadfully dull? Many of them strike me as having been purpose-built to include a group of pre-selected words.


Val

i always liked work books when i was a kid- but my two kids are rote learning haters and won't touch them. I guess it has to do with learning styles. I think they are so pervasive in the gifted school i visisted because it makes it easy for the kids to work ahead. but no excuse.. they are ok in moderation but not as the primary activity.
irene

Just to add something: Waldorf schools tend to have a high percentage of unvaccinated kids. If this is a concern for you (emm, it should be) watch out for them.

Example: Waldorf School in Santa Clara county tops local vaccine exemption list


You can check you own district (in California) here:

California schools, including vaccination exemptions

Val

that is interesting about the vaccine issue. I am confused about that one as my DS7 was originally diagnosed with autism before we realized this year that he was mis-diagnosed and is actually HG with a still-unidentifed LD.. but not autism.

So culturally we've been in the autism community for the last 5 years and a lot of our friends have unvaccinated kids. Its just such a confusing issue as I see a HUGE genetic component. While others see a huge "vaccination" link.

Not to get too off track, but I am starting to think that environmental factors (including vaccinations) may have started some type of genetic mutation (not sure if thats the right word, i'm not medical) that is causing the autism... SO both sides are right, possibly. I feel that a big break is coming in autism research, and hope that it settles this once and for all..

Back to "work-booky" schools. I think it imperative that schools for GT get over this method! These kids are at a higher risk for dropping out of school and giving them more of the same instead of something different does nothing to prevent this.

My DH teaches honors and AP courses and is constantly discouraged by the teachers that think "honors" means giving more vocabulary worksheets instead of fewer. The honors kids need to move on to the deeper kinds of learning and skip some of the vocabulary sheets - stick to the words that are really new to them.

Okay this is a rant that probably belongs in a different forum, but there is all kinds of research out there to support this and it sounds so whiney, arrogant, and overprotective to say my child is needs something different - especially if he is proving the teacher right by not doing the assigned work! (probably not the teacher's problem )

Mmm...a number of researchers looked into the autism-vaccines link a number of times and no one ever found any kind of correlation, let alone causation.

val

val
maybe you didn't mean to do so, but my quote was taken out of context. Though there are many who still blame vaccines and only vaccines for autism, the other "side" i was referencing (vs. Genetic) is "environmental" and that includes air, water, vaccines, medications of mother, lifestyle, diet changes, blah blah blah. I don't think any research study at this point could target one thing or this would have been settled up already. in tracking the argument over the past five years i feel that there is a shift toward a middle ground. And this is occurring in other illness/research camps as well. For example, i believe they recently targeted a breast cancer gene/mutation that caused an increased risk of the disease occurring. however environmental factors such as smoking influenced whether the cancer actually occurred. I feel ultimately we will find a similar thing is happening with autism. I do not think any study ever will find an absolute and direct link with the vaccines.

I agree that it's likely that autism is multi-factorial. However, if vaccines were even a part of the story - more precisely, if being vaccinated made one more likely to develop autism, even though only slightly and even though lots of other factors were also involved - then there would be a correlation between being vaccinated and developing autism. There isn't, as far as we know - and it's a very well-studied question by now, so by ordinary scientific standards, we do know.

I suppose that if there were some way that the prevalence of vaccination in the population could make the population as a whole more likely to develop autism, without the actual individuals being vaccinated being at extra risk compared to others in the population who were not vaccinated, then that isn't ruled out. E.g., if somehow the manufacturing of vaccines were producing an air pollutant to which everyone is exposed, that would do it. Seems far-fetched, though.