Hi there - it's that time of year where we have to decide on the school to send our kid this coming September.

We have two options:
1) Neighbourhood school and requesting a grade skip
2) School with gifted program (plus grade skip), but we would have to drive her

She is currently in kindergarten. Her Montessori education is going okay so far. They are letting her read her chapter books (grade 3 level), though she has recently been reading a non fiction book with a lexile measure of 1070L. I am pretty sure by the end of the school year she will have finished up her multiplication curriculum and possibly started basic division. Her geography knowledge is better than most high schoolers.

I feel that no matter which option we take, we will have to do some afterschooling. My husband wants option 2 because at least the class would be filled with bright students who want to learn. We may have fewer advocacy issues at that school. But we wonder if a grade skip at the local school will be sufficient.

Has anyone had to deal with this issue? Any questions i should be asking myself or the school? Thank you as always!

Like many of the parents here, over the years you may find that nothing is sufficient...
- as most gifted programs teach one year ahead. Period.
- as highly gifted and profoundly gifted kids can have strong internal motivation to learn... some describe it as:

• driven
• compelled
• unquenchable thirst for knowledge
• intellectual curiosity
• highly observant
• etc

I would strongly agree to place your child among academic/intellectual peers... or the nearest which can be found. As you mentioned, a school more familiar with gifted pupils may also be more open to advocacy.

In order to develop well, gifted kids need what ALL kids need:
1) Appropriate academic challenge,
2) Intellectual peers.
However the appropriate academic challenge, and intellectual peers, do not match those of the typical chronological age cohort.

Seems like a no-brainer to me. The choices are:

1) 2nd grade.
2) 2nd grade + gifted services

And the child is already working on 3rd grade math, and reading at a late-6th grade level.

Clearly, neither choice is going to meet the child at her needs, but the second option is least-worst.

Thank you, indigo and Dude. I know, as i read your responses I see how silly my question looks!

The lure of our neighbourhood school is strong! But in the end, we know this may be our better option.

My apologies ann55, if our responses caused you to feel your question was silly! There is NO silly question. And really no one-size-fits-all answers. We can only give you general answers.

So much of a child's "fit" and success in a particular learning environment depends upon a wide variety of factors:
- the particular gifted child,
- the mix of kids in the classroom,
- the teacher,
- the school policies (including openness to advocacy),
- your State laws.

You asked about questions to discuss with schools. There are some in the post linked to the word "fit" in the list above.

If a time comes when your child needs more academic challenge and/or the company of intellectual peers, you may observe pervasive changes, such as those listed in this brief roundup:

- not so happy
for example: change in personality and/or outlook, feeling invalidated, unsupported, unaffirmed, left out, marginalized, ostracized, internalizing a sense of "guilt" for being "privileged" with higher-than-average intelligence, anxious, afraid to make a mistake, bored, hopeless

- withdrawn from friends
for example: saying classmates don't "get" her humor, aren't interested in the same things, she has to hide her intelligence and "dumb down" to fit in, etc

- change in reading habits
for example: lack of interest in reading in depth about topics of interest, and/or choosing genres influenced by popular taste of kids her chronological age and/or assigned grade level

- avoiding challenge
for example: shunning new experiences, procrastinating when faced with learning about topics which she may not be too interested in or naturally good at

- etc, etc (more at these related posts)

These observations may signal that a change is needed and may be overdue. These involve quality-of-life factors, rather than being quantitative. For a quantitative measure, you might look for a trend in achievement test scores which indicate a lack of growth over time.

Does she have friends at the local school? Can you change your mind later?

I'd vote in favor of putting her with academic peers. This is based purely on my experience: I attended my local school and was skipped a grade. While it helped academically, it didn't help much socially; I was sociable enough but didn't find real peers, and thus true friendships, until college.

No need to apologize, indigo! It's more like when you phrase it that way, it's a no brainer.

puffin: she has a few friends at the school, but they wouldn't be in the same grade.

SFParent2015: i was thinking about my sister who was miserable for 4 years at our local school and finally found her peers when she moved to a G&T program.

Thanks everyone - after much thought this may be the way to go for now. The difficult part is now figuring out after school logistics between my husband and me.

That's because we are only focusing on one variable. In real life, there are many variables to be considered.

If I recall, one of the links about "school fit" discussed the idea of making a list of PROs and CONs, which will be different for every family. Work on this with your spouse and child... your family's list will be different than this:

Option 1: Local School
PROs
- convenient commute
- may allow more time to spend with child on enrichment activities and/or afterschooling
- may be able to utilize State laws when advocating
CONs
- may not provide appropriate academic challenge
- may not group with intellectual peers

Option 2: Gifted School
PROs
- higher likelihood of academic/intellectual peers
- may be more open to advocacy (depends on school policy)
CONs
- time spent on length of commute
- afterschool logistics
- length of commute may require purchase of a new car earlier than budgeted
- tuition cost may be a factor

Even in this skeleton of a list, we see several unknowns. They are denoted by my classic overuse of the word "may."
- Research your State Laws.
- Research each school's policies.
- Review your family budget.
- Discuss tradeoffs, parental roles, and division of labor.
- Ask about acceleration at each school (become familiar with the Iowa Acceleration Scale(IAS) and learn whether each school uses it)
- Scheduling a school visit and time for your daughter to shadow may be helpful for gathering information to fill in the unknowns which are related to school fit. If possible, for each school, arrange a school visit/tour for parents and child, and time for your child to shadow independently:
1) a day (or half-day) to shadow with the kids she would be with next year
2) a day (or half-day) to shadow in the grade level which she (and the kids she met during the 1st shadowing experience) would be in next year... to check out the curriculum, classroom rules and expectations, etc at the level she would experience following her acceleration.

In working with the school to arrange these shadow days, in receiving your child's observations, and in receiving the teacher's feedback on your child's shadowing experience... you may learn a lot about how the school will be to work with, ongoing. You and spouse also get to try out the commute.

At the local school, the friends would be in the sending grade... not the receiving grade (the one she accelerates into)? If so, my tip would be to begin to meet new friends who are older... check out whatever activities are offered locally... sports, dance, music, theater, museum, lego, library programs, etc.

Some activities may be a good fit for a gifted child when the child is at the lower end of the age range. For example: Program for 7-9 year old children may be a decent fit for a gifted 7 year old.

Learn to advocate for inclusion for your child when there is a minimum age cutoff. In general you may find success by advocating based upon what your child has in common with the age of children the program was designed for. Using the example above of a program for 7-9 year old children (typically 2nd through 4th grade), and advocating for inclusion of a 5 or 6 year old:
- Child follows instructions well,
- takes turns,
- gets along well with older children,
- reads at or above 4th grade level,
- or whatever is pertinent to the group or activity for which you are seeking inclusion for your child.

You may need a letter of reference or teacher recommendation for future inclusion advocacy, so be sure to talk to the leader at the end of the activity or program to inquire on their view of the "fit"... and potentially their willingness to help your child gain access to possible future opportunities. Ask for their contact information, and give them yours. Keep in touch with an occasional positive anecdote. At some point, if they are interested in learning about "kids like her," there are lots of articles to choose from on the Davidson Database.

Make sure that your child understands that in addition to enjoying the activity itself, being included is an opportunity to possibly meet some kids who may become friends based on conversations sparked by their mutual interest in the activity.

BTW, if you don't already talk about your day, this may be a great time to begin having those conversations over dinner. All family members looking forward to sharing about their day can be a great life-long aid in self-reflection and an aid in decision-making.

From what you've described, it won't be. Gifted with a grade skip is clearly the better option if logistics allow it.

For the record, a single grade skip and gifted likely won't be sufficient, either.

It might sound facile, but these cost-benefit calculations rarely consider the lasting damage that results from an early academic placement that is wildly out of step with the student's needs. It's difficult to assess, but critical in the calculus, and carries very real downstream costs.

Good luck!

I keep starting posts and running out of time to finish them but aquinas has posted most of what I was trying to go for.

We've been through a similar decision with both kids and I'll add a couple more things to consider....

Friends - leaving our neighbourhood school has meant that getting together with classmates can be up to a 45 min drive rather than the kids across the street or a few blocks over.

School involvement - I used to volunteer regularly and attend most school functions when they went to the school 5 minutes away and going to a craft day or the science fair was no big deal. Now it is a lot more challenging which has meant that we often skip those types of activities and DH and I are basically not involved at all with the school.

Peers - I would recommend talking with the school about what they mean by gifted and what their program is. I would want to have a sense of how kids are determined to be gifted. Is entrance based on IQ, achievement or a combination? What is their criteria? Is it about acceleration, depth and breadth or a mix? A program designed for high performing MG kids will likely look different than a program aiming to meet the needs of 2E PG kids for example. It isn't necessarily that one is better or worse but you're looking for information to see if it is a good fit for your particular child.

How do they handle kids that still need more? If their answer is "differentiation" then I'd press for specific details of what they've done for their most extreme outliers.

I have two very different kids with different needs so I've looked at this through different eyes each time we went through the decision. There have definitely been some trade-offs but nothing that surprised us. In the end the gifted program has been worth it and it has been a decent fit for each of them in different ways. The peer group and level of classroom discussion has made up for some of the things that aren't as ideal but for every child and program there are different variables at play.

Good luck!

Chay, you definitely hit the points on why we wanted her to go to our neighbourhood school. Unfortunately, i got ahead of myself. There is a new principal and it appears that they are not so fond of grade acceleration. The gifted program at the other school doesn't have consistent requirements when accepting students - you can use an IQ test with scores as low as 120, recommendation by teachers and a brief achievement test. I think they go at somewhat of a faster pace and more in-depth, but it's still the same grade level material. It's a public school after all. The gifted program coordinator seemed a little surprise by my request to grade skip as she explained the kids in the class are all gifted. Yes, because all gifted kids are the same. I only discovered my kid really knew how to read at 4 because she picked up a new book and read it aloud. A grade 2 level book.

I'm extremely frustrated and sad.

Yep, that's what we're here for... there is no time to waste being frustrated and sad, so please allow us to sponge that up and blot it away with a knowing nod and BTDT pat on the back.

Moving right along...

It seems you've just learned the school's level of familiarity with acceleration is nil and non-existent. So you are progressing through a list. You've got your work cut out for you. But we are here to help and we are up to the task. Be sure to make your your own custom list, with input from your spouse.

Following the basic advocacy advice about meetings, you may wish to sent a polite and positive follow-up e-mail summarizing your conversation with the gifted school. In that e-mail, you may wish to link some resources regarding acceleration.

Be sure to read up on BTDT pros and cons of acceleration with your spouse... be sure you are both in agreement... discuss frequently over time... ensure you remain in agreement for all advocacy efforts.

Have you read your State laws and each schools policies? Going forward, be aware that these may change over time.

indigo - I get frustrated and mad for other parents when I read through their stories on this board! But thank you for understanding my frustrations. By the way, there are no state/provincial laws - it is up to the school to decide however when i called the superintendent's office, i was told "studies have shown grade skipping showed disastrous results."

Our pro/con list is pretty much what you had detailed and unfortunately right now the convenient 2 minute walk is weighted pretty heavily on the pro list. We both work full-time, and while our jobs are flexible it is so disruptive to take 30 minutes out to pick her up, only to pick up her sibling at a different school 1 hour later.

Both schools have agreed to meet with us (i'm taking that as a good sign), and I am now putting together a package - IQ test report, current school's first term report card, and some work samples. I'm thinking of also asking her teacher to write something to confirm what she has covered and some comments on her abilities.

I feel like the gifted program has to be stellar in order for me to think it's worth it. Deep down I know that she needs to be with advanced kids in order to try hard; otherwise, she does the bare minimum because it's still leaps and bounds ahead of her peers. There is a nearby "gifted" school that shows weekly spelling tests for the classrooms and i sighed looking at the words for the second grade class. I asked my daughter before bed if she could spell some of those words, and she recited the spelling without skipping a beat.

Me, too. But we cannot make progress based on emoting... only based on facts and evidence, both empirical evidence from research studies, and anecdotal evidence from lived experiences. So we shift gears from emotion to fact-gathering, prioritizing, and presentation.

I would politely ask for his sources/resources... which studies? I would read anything he provides and analyze the study itself... population size, length of research study, etc. But my guess is that he may have nothing. Either way, I would read up on the acceleration resources linked upthread, and share those with him for his consideration. I would offer to meet to discuss the resources. If you are choosing NOT to attend that school, you may still wish to send a link to the resources of the acceleration institute... as your paths may cross again.

There are pros and cons to everything. As long as you and your spouse agree on a decision and understand why it was the best (or least-worst) option at the time, you are in a good position to deal with any downsides together.

Excellent. Keep a copy for your family as well. Arrange everything by date in a ring binder so you have information readily available as needed for any future advocacy.

Many, if not most, gifted kids may experience appropriate academic challenge and intellectual peers largely through after school activities, enrichment, gifted summer camps, etc.

Is your child a Davidson Young Scholar?

If so, they can help to advocate for your child with the schools. They were extremely helpful in our daughter's case.

Speaking from experience I can tell you first hand that if your child is >MG there will be no perfect school out there - it just becomes a matter of stacking up the pros and cons on each side of the scale for each choice and checking for the alternative that is skewed the least sub-optimally.

Redo the above periodically.

This forum is a great place to learn, to vent and get support.

madeinuk: unfortunately, we are not in the US and cannot apply.

Thank you everyone for your input, comments and links to other threads. I am super grateful this group exists, though i sometimes feel like i spend way too much time reading through the threads. I can't believe how hard the decision was for us. Both schools agreed to place her 1 grade ahead. I came to realize that solely bringing an IQ report is insufficient and was armed with a recent report card, letter from her preschool, and sample work. I even printed off a few grades of the provincial math curriculum and asked her teacher to check off what she has completed so far. Of course, that made me a little sad knowing that she will have completed 3 grades worth of math in 1 year. I also made sure they knew that we were not trying to rush her, but felt that moving her up one grade would make it easier for the teacher to accommodate her. We also didn't think that being told she is the smartest kid in the class was good for her development, and she needed to learn the same skills everyone else got to learn in order to ensure her success when she was older. She needed to learn how to struggle a little bit and deal with challenges. I definitely made sure not to use the word "bored" or "gifted"!

After much debate, we decided to put her in the G&T program. The teachers and admin seem to "get" gifted kids, and even confirmed there would be approximately 3 HG/EG kids in her class. From what i'm told, they accept kids who score in the 95th percentile.

Thanks again everyone!

This is music to my ears! Please be sure to stick around and help advise other new parents.

If it wasn't for this site, I wouldn't have been as prepared. I hope to be as helpful as others have been, and also give hope to those who may have to advocate for their kids.

If option two is viable, then I suggest doing it.