My son's school is starting a new curriculum for math this year called EnVision Math. I am just wondering what people's opinons here are about it and what experiences people have had. Apparently, this is in response to the new "common core requirements coming down the pike," which statement sort of made me cringe a little. The other thing that caused me a little bit of concern was that when I mentioned that my DS needs differientation in math b/c he is about two years ahead the teacher said "oh the new math program has enrichment built in" and "you know it's not just math facts, it's going into math at a deeper level and exploring what math really is." Both statements made me cringe a little. And DS is two years ahead in 'math problem solving' not just calculation ...

Us too! Check out my previous thread - http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....n_Digital_Curriculum_Opi.html#Post165531

I have yet to see any math that DD9 has done in the enVision program and we have been in school over a week now.

We have Pearson programs for all subjects, so not only is it math, but everything else. Needless to say, a lot is riding on how this goes with the district and the students.

We were told basically the same thing - that the program goes deeper and the advanced kids can work at their own speed through the program. I also have my doubts, but it sounds great if it really works the way they told us it does and it covers what the students need.

Oh, just reading the thread now! Thanks....

I cringed when I read HK's comments about enVision in the above thread. DD10's new school uses enVision. I am hoping it will at least exceed Everyday Math that we suffered through at her previous school. EnVision seems to at least have a logical scope and sequence, the lack of which is one of EM's many, many failings. DD is not a math kid but she has mentioned doing some optional enrichment work this week. I sure it's not two grades ahead though!

I have come to believe that the quality of the math pedagogy in school is more important than curriculum anyway after engaging in lots of research about EM and other math curricula and the "math wars" following last year's math disaster.

Hope others chime in on this.

Well, I am feeling more optimistic... Apparently, this was piloted in my son's class last year (I didn't know that when I first posted)... Half the year they piloted Singapore math and the other half EnVision. My DS said for half of the year students who had finished their work/mastered their lesson got to go to an enrichment center do things at the enrichment center. He loved that. Apparently, that was envision curriculum... So it may not be a greatest curriculum but that whole 'when-your-done/mastered-your-lesson-you-get-to-go-talk-math' with other math kids at a "center" was a BIG hit with my son... Apparently, the group (generally it was the same grup fo kids every time) would get together and pick a math topic to work on - multiplication, square roots, etc. Now, I am assuming that the teacher has some discretion with how the "center" works so I guess what kind of teacher the child has can make a difference and can make a good experience or a bad experience BUT I am breathing a huge sigh of relief for now and definitely feeling optimistic. Also I don't mind computer aspect at all - my son already does a lot of math on the computer and I find he works much better using a computer (hey DH is a hardware computer engineer so we're all about using tech/computers here - t's in the blood) particularly with his dysgraphia and handwriting problems... so I am okay with that aspect as well. SO feeling optimistic despite the criticisms.

Now here is a topic I can add to!

DS6 began enVision math worksheets in kinder fall 2012, moved to public independent study program winter 2012 & skipped to 1st gr, so he rec'd the 1st enVision Math Workbook to work on. Unfortunately for 1st he ONLY rec'd the workbook. It starts out very sloooow and never seems to speed up!

This year for 2nd grade, he has rec'd not just the 2nd gr workbook but also the "teachers edition" & actual 4pg color lesson worksheets.

It is HORRIBLE! Not only does it not seem to introduce topics in any type of order, it tries to teach various topics in so many different styles vs focus on one, that it is hard to follow. rather convoluted and drawn out. and does not go deep enough into any given subject...it is also WAY too simple!

DS6 complained about the 1st gr being too easy. Now he complains about the 2nd grade.

The other thing is envisions is HUGE on using counters, ten-frame's etc and just drawing them, counting them etc, if teacher requires all work- this can make a child like mine, and i'm sure most all kids here, very frustrated- he can glance at 2+3=? and say "5". quick. nooooo envisions req child to draw out counters or to count and write the quantity down etc, and I found myself spending more time last year trying to talk DS6 into doing that-showing that "work" than it took for him to get a whole topic done!

now? I gave him the 2nd grade workbook, picked the most difficult topics for him to do- TIME, FRACTIONS, MULTIPLICATION CONCEPTS, MULT FACTS, DIVISION, and he did them all in a matter of hours! There are just 20 topics in this book.

On my own, we have moved onto the 3rd gr envision math workbook. Again, nothng really new so far, just dbl digit add/subt... no telling time or $ topics AT ALL.

I am going to go ahead and work thru this, while also having him do 3rd gr Singapore, and (don't laugh!) a Sylvan Learning 3rd gr Math bk I picked up @Costco! IT is actually more comprehensive than the enVisons program is! and it is in Color. DS6 finds it at least visually stimulating!

personal complaints of mine are- envisions does not go deep enough into any topic, but espectially telling time or $$ which I think are two important subjects.

*also because the envisions program is so simple- I honestly don't know if my DS6 is at 3rd/4th grade level math or that this program just doesn't expect kids to know anything @2nd grade level? (that said, the 3rd gr also simple- why I am supplementing with other programs)

Bottom Line? if a child is advanced in math, this program will most likely not teach him a whole lot, and more likely to cause frustrations for the child...

Oh crap - we had a problem with this last year - the drawing of boxes and such ... It was really a problem because it was hard for my DS to draw all those boxes neatly and he would tire so much more, etc. drawing all these stupid boxes. I guess that was envision. Fortunately, my son already knows money ... Perhaps keeping him in mathnasium will help. And doing IXL but this math nonsense is so annoying - why is it no one can get teaching math right in this country?

I forgot to add, after every topic, is an assessment/test. As well as an accumulative test @ end of program- specifically related to common core math standards

oh my gosh Portia!
our boys sound exactly the same!!!!

*this past wk, I spoke to his teacher- we meet with her 1hr/wk to turn in previous wks work, and I asked if DS6 could just take the Topic Tests- if he shows he knows the stuff, he skips the tedious worksheets. she said NO!

he has to do ALL the work and turn it in each wk b/c that is how the school gets funding.

That's WHY I have moved forward on my own as far as math goes. Each wk for the rest of the school year we are turning in each wk's worth of math lessons as required--So in May, we will turn in req'd lessons, even though they were all completed months prior in August.

Irena,
DS knows Money as well, but I did have to supplement, I really want him to know it in depth.
I would be okay with DS6 doing the math Online also, he also complains his hand gets tired. It is a legit complaint as he had issues w/ his hands, not the fine motor- those are wonderful, but the gross motor... for which he rec'd OT.

I have recently been looking @Khan Academy, DS enjoys the format. Somebody somewhere complained it changes a lot, that they are becoming more aligned with CA public school system, and the common core..

Portia,
It's not you, it is the system I am afraid.
Not just in one area, but the entire country's public school education model is failing... our kids pay the price.

I PULLED DS from public, well- he's still DOING public, just independently at home. I was told he could accelerate at his own pace, but that isn't true at all. Which is why we are playing their game- at least on paper.

*may I ask, how did your DS complete the 3rd grade math in one day? Did they give him the year end test? I WISH they'd do that for my DS6!!! I was told I should be happy they are allowing him to do 2nd grade, when technically he should be in 1st grade. I think that was my subtle warning to keep my mouth shut!!!

Good luck to you!

Yep. UGH.

Oh don't apologize! Not a hijack at all - it's the information this thread requests!

My DS was getting in tons of trouble for lack of focus and for working ahead last year in math. I can relate. I am nervous about this year. They piloted two programs in DS' math class last year - Singapore and Envision and they picked Envision as THE curriculum. I am trying to figure out under which one DS did better.. one of them had an enrichment center and that worked nicely for him... I am hoping that is ENvision because at least that was a BIG hit with him. I have already started advocating though - I have already started pushing and school hasn't even started yet. Last year was about getting him his accommodations ... this year's battle will apparently be about getting him enrichment and some advancement in math. I am already known as a true PITA (and perhaps worse) so I have nothing to lose and hopefully they will decide to help rather than hinder earlier... They know I will not go away quietly.

Do they sell the workbook at bookstores? I'd like to take a look at it so I can see what it covers and maybe start showing DS's work (perhaps the work he does at mathnasium for example) to the teacher to show he already does know the stuff. I am assuming the national achievement test will also be good evidence but God only knows when I will get that report probably not for three weeks to a month, unfortunately.

Hi Irena

I rec'd enVision thru DS public independent study program- which is why I have the full workbook and teacher editions/supplements and so on... for ALL subjects.

I believe there is a website where you can purchase the math workbook if you homeschool? I think just the workbook is the one available... It is thru Pearson. Perhaps you can research that and see? **As far as enVision goes you do not need the teacher ed or the supplemental 4pg color worksheets- which the teacher says is actually the true lesson with the workbook being the homework. (the workbook is actually labeled "interactive homework workbook"). The teacher ed is just as convoluted as the rest of the program is if you ask me. (I don't use it)

*which national achievement test did your DS take? was this done privately? our District will not accept any type of outside testing, and said testing is very pricey in this area. I just learned I can have DS take the olstat 8 at home... I am going to have a child developmental specialist I know administer it to him. It will be for my records only. Test is approx. $85. incl result (I send form back in), and it is scored via school grade norms vs age. (did I word that right?)

Anyhow. It is truly a shame that schools would not encourage and enable our kids to move ahead esp in a subject like math! What could possibly be the benefit of not letting them move forward at their own pace?

I hope the school will listen to you and place your DS where he needs to be

Let me just interject, here, how brutally disappointing it must have been to have Singapore dangled as an option.... only to have the nasty, less-than-mediocre option with the glossy pictures and interactive website "win" in terms of curricular choice in the end.

I'd cry. Seriously.

Yes, I know...

Ahhh, thanks, I just wanted to look at it... like in a bookstore or something see what is covered to see where DS falls.


Yes, done privately - our school thankfully considers outside testing (so I am told) and will also take a GAI in lieu of a FSIQ... I am embarrassed to say I don't know which achievement tests were used yet... Not Woodcock Johnson I suppose b/c he did those in January through the school (I guess you need wait a year between achievement tests like IQ tests? IDK. But the testing Psych saw DS's January tests so I assume she would give him something comparable but different). I think it's the one they usually do with the WISC IV? Is it called the WIAT? I'll know when I get the report (Or if I call her an bug her, I suppose).

Thanks for the good wishes! I am so anxious right now in limbo, I'll feel better when I have the actual report and know what I am dealing with!

We had a good example last night on an "enrichment" page for enVision math. This is 4th grade math by the way.

The question was something like this - You have the number 9 and you multiply it by another number and you get 9. What is the number? Write out the problem and explain how you got your answer.

DD of course wrote out 9X1=9 and for her explanation she wrote, "because that is the answer"...so much for enrichment and going deeper into the problem. I asked her if she thought she explained how she came up with that answer very well and I got the "seriously, Mom" look. I told her even though she was right, she might not get all the points possible if she didn't try to explain better. She was okay with what she put and left it that way.

If your DD wanted to really blow the teacher's mind then she could answer that it is a natural result of the identity property of multiplication LOL

Perhaps that is what the 'looking deeply into the problem' was looking for...

The program still uses counters in 4th grade for single digit multiplication. DD was drawing arrays a couple nights ago on an "enrichment" page. Luckily since this is new to her, she was sort of enjoying picking what she drew pictures of - smiley faces, lightning bolts, etc. and was taking her time to draw each one out. However, if she has to continue to use arrays, I doubt her creativity will last long and her neatness will dwindle down to messy squiggles and simple x's and o's.

Alternatively, a natural result of the identity property of addition... since multiplication is just addition to the power of n.

Ugh. This is DD's personal demon. Should she choose smileys or lightning bolts? Or maybe cats, horses, or trees? The entire homework turns into a multi-hour struggle with choosing things that DON'T MATTER. It's worse than creative writing - at least there she can make up a story that has some reason to include trees vs. cats. The actual math part takes seconds, the choices are impossible.

DS doesn't use the counters or draw the counters/arrays etc, he just puts down the answer, when teacher sad he has to show work to prove he knows how to do the problem... I replied this was independent study, i'm teaching him @home, and i'm ok with him just putting the answer. when she insisted- I said "mark him down then, his test scores will speak for themselves"

enVision example 2nd gr:

Making 10 to Add 8
*make 10 to add 8.
use counters and your workmat.
1. 8+3=
2. 8+1=

*said!!! (my messed up keyboard!)

also, keep in mind the whole 2nd gr enVision offered nothing new for DS6, as such he was able to go thru and complete fairly quickly, while grumbling whole time it was "babywork". ***that said, we still turn in the "math" according to the teachers schedule, which is same as if he was in actual classroom. actually we are a tiny bit ahead according to the teacher, and we should go back over and possibly supplement! (ummm NO)

for this wk, he is just turning in Topic #2, lesson 2-7

ugh

My son would so draw brownies. He writes spelling sentences all about brownies. Brownies is his default thing to put some fun into school.

Brownies, as is yummy chocolate? Brownies, as in cute little elfish creatures? Brownies, as in girl scouts? Oh the possibilities!!!! I think I would go for the yummy chocolate option (right about now in fact).

OH he is all about the kind you eat...fudge brownies, frosted brownies, dark chocolate fudge brownies...the sentences he comes up with are great. I could see him making arrays with them too.

If I see one more worksheet brought home from EnVision Math that teaches a "trick" to doing math I think I may explode! This week they are learning "compensation" to do multiplication. DH and I had to look it up to figure out how it was supposed to look on DD's scratch paper (since they have to show their work). All these "tricks" are just confusing these poor kids since they learn a new "trick" every few days.

Why can't they just multiply and get on with it?!?

It isn't just EnVision math.

My DD (in fifth grade no less) has had to re-learn addition and subtraction using goofy methods that involve writing a sentence with a boxes in them for each step of the problem. When subtracting five-digit numbers, she has to write five sentences for each step plus one for the answer. She has to write boxes around the numbers.

This has carried through to fraction arithmetic. Students aren't allowed to write

5/6 - 4/6 = 1/6

For a simple problem like this one, they have to rewrite the fractions in a box. I can't remember what they do, but it isn't something reasonable like 5-4/6. They also have to write (Don't carry). If the problem is slightly more complex (2 1/5 - 4/5), the written rigamarole gets very involved.

If things aren't written just so, the kids lose points. DD has a test coming up. I told her I don't care if she loses points because she drew her box in the wrong place. All I care about is that she learns math (which she has to do at home with me).

Definitely not just EnVision.

EDM is notorious for this nonsense, too.

It doesn't address the major issue but would they accept small stickers or stamp rather than drawings of thunderbolts etc. It would speed things up maybe and be easier for kids who find writing hard.

A complete aside but ds6 has finally got multiplication. 4 weeks before the end of year 2 (first grade in the US). The teacher says they have been doing it for ages but ds6 doesn't count skip counting or repeated addition. I think they may be using some sort of grid to get the answer though. I think my goal for the summer holidays might be the multiplication tables.

when i am start my edu...then i was feeling math is hard language ...but thanks to my teacher who provided me good education