I wrote about my ds's trouble with writing in another post. I requested a 504 plan (and I told them I wanted him to get OT), and they insisted on testing him for Special Education services. On the form I signed giving permission, they said they were going to do psychological, medical, and OT assessments. After 65 days of waiting, our meeting is next week. I called to request the results of the tests (which I am legally supposed to be able to get 2 days in advance of the meeting), and they aren't ready yet. In addition, they won't do an OT assessment unless he qualifies for an IEP. Looks like they want to waste more of my child's education.

I know that if ds qualifies for special education, I can get the OT eval and probably OT services. If he does not qualify, I know that it is possible he may get OT services, but I don't think it's likely. Do you know under what circumstances OT services will be allowed? I'm having a hard time finding information about 504 plans.

Thanks.

To qualify for a 504 plan your child's disability must "substantially limit one or more major life activities." It sounds like you may not be able to depend on the school to supply you with evidence that your son is substantially limited in his ability to write and/or learn. Has he been formally diagnosed with a learning disability?

Here is some good info:

http://www.ldonline.org/article/6086

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html

Read the text of the actual law here:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_99/34cfr104_99.html

I don't have the results of the psychological report yet (I should get them Monday), but I'll be surprised if he has a learning disability. I think he has a fine motor delay. He has had a private OT evaluation, that shows he is below average for manual dexterity and visual motor speed. His handwriting is sloppy, and he has a hard time maintaining his pencil grip. Also, his in-hand manipulation skills are poor. He can't flip his pencil around to erase without putting the pencil down or using his other hand.

The major life activity that is substantially limited is writing. He has received 2's (having difficulty meeting grade-level expectations) on his report cards both grading periods so far this year, but he meets or exceeds expectations in all other subjects.

Thanks for the links. I will study them.

Good Luck Keet,
You may get services through the school, and you may not. My son got OT/PT through school, plus private OT, in 2nd grade and no one would address his sloppy handwriting there anyway! The private OT said: - You should see the way I hold a pencil, it's worse than his. ((fume))

Anyway - I took matters into my own 'hands' and got Handwriting without Tear's "The Print Tool" so I could see for myself exactly what was needed, and used their materials to do a bit of remediation at home. (I think 2 minutes a day 5 days a week would help almost anyone - I am going to try it on myself one of these days!) The Print Tool is fairly cheap - compared to private OT, and it's written in such a way that I could understand and do it - if inelegantly.

Anyway, by the time I figured all this out, my son at age 11 had a 'growth spurt' and is 90% of the way there to acceptable printing. Mysterious creatures these kiddos!

Best Wishes,
Grinity

My experience as an OT:
OT is almost never a "stand alone" service. Under IDEA occupational therapy is a "related service" that is provided in conjunction with other special education, based on the need identified by evaluation and determined by the team. I have sat in IEP meetings where the educational staff have argued that OT is not necessary because the handwriting is addressed through the regular classroom activities. It is really just a matter of how the school administration and faculty view both the student and OT, as well as how they interpret IDEA.

As for a 504 plan, that falls under the ADA, not IDEA. It requires that the school provide accommodations for a student with a disability. I have seen a student receive speech and social work services under a 504 plan, have it outlined that they need pencil grips, slant boards, special seating, etc, but NEVER seen a student receive direct OT services under a 504.

One caveat. No matter how hard you fight, if you get direct OT services for your child they (the services) will only be as good as the OT who is working in the school. You don't get to pick the OT (in most circumstances). Not all OT's are created equal. Hopefully the one at your school is really good with handwriting remediation. Many schools are reluctant to put OT on the IEP because they have not seen improvements when the kids at the school receive OT. That's the OT's fault.

Best of luck. I do hope he gets the services and help he needs.

I just checked out www.wrightslaw.com and found this:
"A Free, Appropriate Public Education Under Section 504

Does Section 504 require schools to provide the child with an appropriate public education?

Yes. Under Section 504, an "appropriate" education means an education that is comparable to the education provided to students without disabilities. This may include regular or special education services. Students can receive related services under Section 504 even if they are not provided with special education services." http://www.wrightslaw.com/howey/504.idea.htm

You might want to surf that page and see if you can find out more. HTH.

I know I'm pathetic in that I don't know all the rules (odd for a former lawyer to actively try not to read the rules LOL, I just don't want to go there; hence, pathetic), but my understanding was that OT was a subject for an IEP rather than a 504 plan. My DS5 has an IEP for speech and for OT for fine motor/handwriting. I don't understand the statement that they won't do an OT assessment unless he qualifies for an IEP - I believe that it may be the OT assessment that does the qualifiying! In our school district, we just have to call to request such an assessment - that's what I did, after discussing it with his preschool teacher. We just threw speech in there since I've had him in private therapy for that anyway. I believe he qualified for OT under an IEP because his score on the OT assessment reached a sufficiently low level, and he could have had OT regardless of his speech situation. Do you mean that if your child's overall performance is not below grade level, you might not get an IEP? That may be, but I think handwriting might be a discrete task in that sense and can be evaluated regardless of overall achievement - though I suppose this is one of those areas in which all school districts interpret the rules differently.

I'm a little crazy at the moment due to stuff going on at home, so I might not make much sense....

You certainly aren't pathetic! The "rules" are put into action differently in each school district, from my experience. Hard to know what to expect.

In some districts, testing for special education simply doesn't get done if the child is achieving at or above grade level. The district balks, the teachers say there's no problem, someone says the child is "doing fine" and tells the parents to relax. I've never worked with a district that allowed OT to be the only service the child received under an IEP. OT services often depend on the availability of a therapist. Some districts employ their own OTs but many contract for services. It often comes down to a supply and demand issues or a financial issue for the district. Sad, but true. Sometimes I've seen a child with lots of issues that would respond well to OT but they only get 20 minutes a week written on the IEP because the school therapist is only at that school one day per week and already has 16 kids on her caseload there.

The other hard part is for an OT to justify that a gifted child who is achieving at or above grade level needs OT to remediate handwriting issues that are asynchronous but "average." When the child tests out with a large discrepancy you really have to make a case for how it impacts the child. Not all OTs know how. Not many educational people understand the impact of that on the school experience. So, basically, OT can be hard to get in the schools!

Snowgirl, I think what your child may get Speech and OT is because of his age. If they label a child "developmentally delayed," the child can keep that label and get services until he turns 9. I don't know at what point they stop giving that label. I know they won't give an 8yo a DD label (since it wouldn't be good for very long).

I hope the test experts see this post. What I'm wondering is do you see anything other than handwriting problems? That's all the assessor seemed to mention. The "fluency" scores involve writing.

WISC 4 results:
IQ tests (normal is 90 - 109), p = percentile:
Verbal Comprehension: 126, p=96
Perceptual Reasoning: 145, p=99.9
Working Memory Index: 116, p=86
Processing Speed Index: 126, p=96
Full Scale IQ: 138, p =99

WJ3
Achievement, p=percentage:
Oral Language: 132, p=95
Broad reading: 138, p=99
Broad Math: 145, p=99.9
Broad Written Lang: 130, p=98
Math Calc Skills: 136, p=99
Written Expression: 116, p=85
Academic Skills: 139, p=99.5
Academic Fluency: 132, p=98
Accademic Apps: 132, p=98

Form A (I think of WJ3)
Letter-Word Identification: 125, p=95
Reading Fluency: 148, p= >99.9
Story Recall: 135, p=99
Understanding Directions: 126, p=96
Calculation: 143, p=99.8
Math Fluency: 107, p=67
Spelling: 138, p=99
Wrigin Fluency: 107, p=67
Passage Comprehension: 121, p=92
Applied Problems: 144, p=99.8
Writing Samples: 119, p=89
Story Recall - Delayed: 138, p=99

I'm not an expert, but I know enough to see that there are no "problems" clearly displayed here, though some potential bottlenecks are, as Grinity and Dottie have described.

By way of example, my DS6 got a PG-level PRI with his processing speed and working memory in the normal range on the WISC. His fluency was significantly lower on the WJ-III, too. These results explained a lot. He is a deep thinker, but is NOT fast. He had been having trouble completing math problems, and as a homeschooler, I was really frustrated because I thought he was just wasting time, playing around, not trying...then I saw his WISC results.

They showed me what was really up. He wasn't just dawdling. He was spending too long on a problem (due to his average processing speed) and then he was forgetting what he was supposed to be doing (due to his average working memory). We changed the way we approach math problems and I got more patient, and our math sessions got a lot more productive.

Fluency is speed, and GT kids--even HG+ kids--often do not show great speed.

In short, this is a strong result, though you may see some speed and/or memory bottlenecks with this child just as I saw with mine. Just be aware, be patient, be sure the teacher knows about the bottlenecks, and it should be okay.

But there are no "problems" here, in the usual meaning of the word. The worst you've got here is average, and those scores are in the areas less relevant to GTness. It's clear this is one bright child, keet!

We had the meeting, and he doesn't qualify for special ed. Everyone acted like they're willing to give him a 504 with OT, but they wouldn't do the meeting without an OT present. My understanding is that they have 10 days to have the meeting.

Does my ds count as twice exceptional if he has a medical problem rather than a learning problem? Am I still allowed to post here?

Keet, in my book your ds is 2E... I am quite sure most others would feel the same

Yes, Dear!

These bottlenecks can be pesky, and have a large effect on a child's self-esteem. My son was asked to exchange papers in 2nd grade so they could grade each other's work. On little girl commented on his 'baby handwritting' and it really hurt my son's feelings. Of course this behavior wasn't noticed or corrected. The next time the children were asked to swap papers, you can imagine the behavior that followed when my DS just plain refused. Did I mention that intensity seems common amoung gifted children? He got plenty of attention and 'correction' for refusing to follow the rules, and although he's a highly verbal kid, he's always had a difficult time using those advanced verbal skills to explain stuff to adults he doesn't feel safe with. So back then he could lecture for an hour about the habits and habitats of Pengins, but couldn't say: "I felt bad when Jane said I had baby handwriting."

So it's not just that the teacher was being dense. It's that he doesn't fit ND expectations. Most kids get insulted on Monday and appear to have forgotten all about it by Thursday. I'm not saying that it is forgotten, I figure that it's there, but much less accessible. There are some great stories about a teen age HG kid meeting his 2nd grade teacher in the grocery store and recalling every slight he suffered at her hands, with his mom looking on who also remembered him complaining of the same stuff back then. Apparently the teacher was quite suprised - ND kids just don't have that kind of memory strengths.

So yes post here no matter what the 2E issues is, and even if it's just plain Asynchronous Behavior that's looking like a disability. I call my son '2Eish' and expect it will be years before I can have that 'Aha!' feeling.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

My son is 2E because of a motor coordination disorder that wasn't diagnosed until he was nine. Even though his visual motor integration was at the level of a child two years younger and his handwriting was slow and it was difficult for him to write very much, he did not qualify for OT in our public school because he was not failing in anything and instead tested above grade level in everything at age 7. I couldn't see how this could be considered a learning disability when he didn't have trouble "learning" anything except dance routines.

My son has an invisible disability. He didn't have a problem telling people that he had hypotonia and that it caused difficulties with handwriting and cutting things with scissors. His problem was that adults just didn't understand even after he told them. They didn't even understand after I explained in more detail. My sister-in-law has a Phd and was a geology professor and I would assume that requires a high level of intelligence and even she didn't seem to understand. So we have just had to accept the fact that most people will not understand his disability and he will just have to deal with that and ignore those people who tell him he is not trying or that he is being lazy. He is actually able to accept this better than I can, because some of these people make me angry, especially closed-minded teachers.

I really appreciate the people who do take the time to understand and offer my son support and encouragement instead of focusing on his difficulties. It just seems like there are so few of those people where we live--a very competitive, sports obsessed small town where academics comes second to sports where you are a geek if you prefer to learn instead of watching sports.

This weekend, my mom was sort of looking askance at my DS's needing to have directions repeated. I explained that I had looked at him the same way...until I saw how HORRIBLY he performed on the Listening section of his Iowa Test of Basic Skills (for annual evaluation of homeschoolers).

He missed about half the questions on the Listening section! And he was trying hard and paying attention. In fact, I think he missed more on the Listening section than he missed on the whole rest of the test, no exaggeration. I have been unsure about whether he was VS or not, but this pretty much cinched it!

It's not an official 2E issue and we have no official 2E diagnosis, but it sure is a bottleneck!

So, yes, please post, keet!

We just met yesterday, and ds now has a 504 plan with OT!

Woo Hoo! Good job, keet

I hope the OT is beneficial.

Yay!

YEAH!!!! Way to go! That must have been some great advocating!

Great job on being an awesome advocate for your child! The minute my son turned 3, I had an appt at the school board for him to get assessed for speech and OT out of concern (he also got Speech when he was 2 from our local head start because he had a huge history with ear infections and didn't start talking until he was 2)...he qualified for both and was put on an IEP...last year he got services several times a week as a "drive in" student - I had to bring him into the local school for speech/OT which was a small nightmare - with his sensory disorder, he could barely handle the walk down the loud and bright school hallways and the disruption of having to pick him up at various times from his Montessori throughout the week to get him to services was an issue because my son thrives on routine and hates transitions....so this year we advocated for him to have intinerant services brought to him at his Montessori preschool and we got our request...so the 2 teachers come to him in his school setting....our next step is to start advocating for gifted services since he is only 3 points away from the required IQ score and has already had several grade level tests done and he is way above Kindergarten (which he is supposed to start in the fall)...so we are going to try to get gifted services along with his IEP for speech and OT - will be an interesting battle :-) Great job and i hope that it really helps your child!

Well done, Keet. So happy for your child.