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Posted By: Laurie918 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 03:45 AM
We are going to Colorado in August to have more testing done because both doctors who tested our 10 yo twin girls didn't have confidence in their results-their words, not mine (sigh). We are going to see Dr. Silverman, who I trust gets 2e kids. Dr. Silverman's thoughts are that based on both of the girls scores we have so far, they are both profoundly gifted. The school disagrees so we are going to Colorado. One of our twins is an extreme anxious, perfectionist. We haven't told them we are going to Colorado for testing because one will pitch a fit at more testing. The other, the perfectionist, will bite her nails till they bleed. She is seriously an anxious kid who breaks down when she fails. Any thoughts on how we handle the communication? I suspect that being a perfectionist in this type of testing is not a good thing??? Any suggestions for calming her anxiety? Would it make sense to talk to our ped re: the anxiety part? We have spent so much money so far, we just want an accurate diagnosis so we can get them an appropriate education and then just move on. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted By: aeh Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 04:11 AM
Regardless of testing, if her anxiety affects her life significantly (and biting her nails until they bleed sounds like it would fit into that category), it may benefit her to seek treatment for the anxiety, not because anxiety is bad per se, but because she needs tools to put her in control of her anxiety, rather than the other way around.
Posted By: Laurie918 Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 04:45 AM
Thanks aeh! I will call her ped in the morning and see if she can provide a referral to a counselor or appropriate resource
Posted By: polarbear Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by Laurie918
Dr. Silverman's thoughts are that based on both of the girls scores we have so far, they are both profoundly gifted. The school disagrees so we are going to Colorado.

To be honest, I agree with spaghetti. I also think it's potentially risky to think that the school will openly accept testing from out of state, and I may be a bit cynical, but I think there are two potential ways for a third party to view the Dr. Silverman testing - you're looking at it as a way to get what you feel is a more accurate IQ and a better understanding of your children's strengths and weaknesses because Dr. Silverman's business is focused on giftedness and 2e. Another person might look at it as an attempt to get an inflated IQ or questionable diagnosis by going to a business where most kids tested come out with a high IQ and/or 2e diagnosis. I don't mean that with any disrespect to Dr. Silverman, just see that as a risk in putting down eval $ and travel $ for the eval.

Re what to do about the anxiety, I'd second ash's suggestion.

Best wishes,

polarbear
Posted By: indigo Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 02:19 PM
If there is childhood perfectionism or anxiety, there are books which show readers how to free themselves from thought patterns which may not be serving them well. While insightful, these books are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. Parents may wish to pre-read and decide if a resource may be a helpful tool for their child.

This old post mentions some books on anxiety.

A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is "What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough" (https://www.amazon.com/What-When-Good-Enough-Isnt/dp/1575422344/).

Another book you might like is "Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good" (https://www.amazon.com/Perfectionism-Whats-About-Being-Good/dp/1575420627/).

There is also an article on the Davidson Database, titled Interview with Thomas Greenspon on Perfectionsim.
(https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/interview-with-thomas-greenspon-on-perfectionism/)

Perfectionistic tendencies may be a sign of developing a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. One aspect or application is that gifted kids may stop taking appropriate risks in order to always be "right" or always be "smart" or never be "wrong", and this may work against them. The concept is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
- Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link-
)
- Carol Dweck: Teaching a Growth Mindset (link-
)

Parents may wish to read the book Mindset by Carol Dweck for tips on promoting a growth mindset. It is based on years of research. Not that I agree with every idea/application, but on balance found a number of ideas to be useful.

The mention of these books is not to detract in any way from other poster's suggestions of developing a relationship with a therapist.

Because the previous testers specifically expressed that they did not have confidence in the prior test results, I would tend to lean toward more thorough testing with Dr. Silverman. It is possible that she may even be able to recommend a therapist in your area and that the new test results may be insightful for productive therapy.

Unfortunately, in school and elsewhere, gifted kids may be subject to negative commentary born of myths about giftedness. Inflated and unrealistic expectations placed on gifted children may lead to, or fuel, anxiety and perfectionism. It is possible that with having a support team that understands, validates, and affirms their giftedness without undue pressure to perform, they will be able to create realistic goals and expectations for themselves, and become less vulnerable to other's expectations.
Posted By: Can2K Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 02:29 PM
I agree with the therapy suggestion. DD10 is dealing with anxiety - we've tried many things - books, online videos (GoZen has a online course DD enjoyed), counseling.

Unfortunately in our case, DD shut down during counseling and refused to go back. So I've been going myself, talking to the psych about the best ways to handle various situations. It's been enormously helpful - I now have tools to use and ideas of what to say or how to discuss things she's worried about.
Posted By: indigo Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 02:35 PM
This is fabulous, your DD is fortunate to have you!
Posted By: indigo Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by Laurie918
bite her nails till they bleed.
This old thread on deliberate self-harm resources may be of interest.
Posted By: Can2K Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 03:09 PM
Awww thanks!

It is great (albeit expensive) having this 'consulting' option - we found that standard anxiety advice in books was just not very helpful for our specific case. And as a result I never knew if I was saying or doing the right things.
Posted By: Val Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by spaghetti
This may not be a popular comment, but I'd skip the testing for now. See if there's another way to get what the girls need without putting them through testing to prove their PGness.

Why do they need the testing? Is it to get into a program that would benefit their educations? Is it to joint DYS? Is it to improve the level of the work they are doing in school? Whatever the reason for the testing, is there another way?

I agree completely with this comment.

I'll add that if it was ten-year-old me and I was told I was going to another state for one reason, got there, and was then suddenly told that the real purpose of the trip was to force me to do something that made me very uncomfortable to the point of biting my nails until they bled --- well, I would have seen that as a major betrayal. Honestly, I suspect that my feelings of betrayal would have affected my test scores, too.
Posted By: Quantum2003 Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 09:43 PM
With the relative severity of their symptoms at such a young age, it would seem that they need their psychological disabilities treated far more than determination of PGness, unless getting that PG label will somehow open doors to getting crucial accommodations that they currently lack. In that case, simply explain that you are trying to get them those crucial accommodations, which are not possible unless they do these additional tests with this particular tester.
Posted By: Laurie918 Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 10:36 PM
Thank you all for the feedback!!! The challenge on why we need this information is that our daughters are not getting any accommodations in school. Nothing. But they are reporting challenges in the classroom (with one on a weekly basis) and we want to prove to them that it is simply not that they have ADHD.

Thanks again for the feedback
Posted By: madeinuk Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 10:44 PM
Is home school an option here? A private tutor? Given their state of anxiety I would forget the skip entirely and pull them both out of school to address the causes of their distress and to help build resilience even if instead of a skip it meant losing a grade.
Working under the assumption that they are PG then they would catch up and then some in no time once brought back into school.

Just my $0.02 - YMMV
Posted By: HowlerKarma Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 10:54 PM
Yeah-- my 0.02, having a kiddo who is in college now, as opposed to be being on the starting side of this journey? A skip-- as in, singular-- is very very unlikely to be worth this much strain on any child who is EG/PG.

ONE will pretty much never be enough in terms of accommodations, and really, this is a lot of stress and strain to put a child through for something so unlikely to do enough.

An unwilling school isn't going to magically "see the light" just because of test results from out of state. Even if you do get some amount of grudging cooperation, they aren't going to see what they don't wish to see, nor are they going to make a good faith effort to do right by your child. IMHO.

I'd invest so much $$ in other ways, I think. But that's me.

Posted By: bluemagic Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/09/15 11:13 PM
Therapy has helped my 2e DS16 with his anxiety. We got help when he was 11/12 and he is now seeing a different person now that he is in High School. The new therapist is someone who specializes in gifted teens, but the first therapist who had no particular experience in gifted kids was still very effective in helping DS. He taught him a number of self regulating techniques that he still uses to this day.

Good Luck.
Posted By: LAF Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/11/15 12:56 AM
I completely agree with HK on this one… the school is not going to change anything because of private test results. They either get it or they don't. You will be wasting your money if that's the reason you are doing it.

I have friends with PG kids, and you may have to try several different educational models to find one that fits. In some cases, certain models only work for a couple of years until you have to try something else…

Right now I would focus on trying to give them ways of coping with the anxiety.
Posted By: indigo Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/11/15 02:20 AM
I agree that the DCs need assistance in alleviating anxiety.

The testing may be helpful for that.
1) The anxiety may be rooted in (or fueled by) giftedness and an ill-fitting learning environment.
2) The anxiety may be rooted in (or fueled by) a learning disability or learning difference.

G and/or the 2nd E may be important pieces to understanding and alleviating the DCs' anxiety. IMO, it is crucial to develop a trusting, supportive relationship with a professional who understands and embraces 2e kiddos before it is not possible to reach the DCs and guide their thinking.
Posted By: Laurie918 Re: 10year old perfectionist and testing - 07/11/15 03:32 AM
Indigo..we are definitely in the wrong educational environment which is one of the issues we are dealing with. Finding a gifted school that gets 2e kids hasn't been easy..

Squishys..yes, when I found out that DYS had made the criteria of IQ or Achievement, I was thrilled. Both have very high IQs but the achievement tests have been average. I am going to submit the applications to DYS, hoping they may help us advocate with the school district.

We did get a referral to a counselor from our ped yesterday. Of course she is scheduling appts 2months from now but its better than nothing. Thanks everyone for all your feedback. I am so glad to have found this forum!
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