My 12yo son is 2E with dyslexia and dysgraphia, which was diagnosed at age 7. He received a 504 in 2nd grade, but since the school wouldn't provide much besides accommodations, we hired a private tutor for 3 years, who was really wonderful. He's in 7th grade now and doing amazingly well. His reading is at above 12th-grade level, and he's getting a B+ in writing. His spelling is still atrocious, but his actual writing is fine. He doesn't use any of the accommodations in his 504 except that he reads on his kindle (with larger text) and sometimes just listens to the books rather than reads them. His 504 gives him extra time on tests and assignments, the ability to keyboard (all the students do this now), stipulates that teachers can't mark down for spelling unless it's for a spelling test, and it allows him to use an ereader when necessary.

He's getting all As except for that B+ in writing. Based on this, I don't see the need to continue with the 504, but I'm wondering if there is some long-term issue I'm not considering?

It's a lot easier to keep a 504 than to get one. I'd be very cautious about deciding that you don't need it. In particular, I'd fight to keep the "teachers can't mark down for spelling" and the "use of an ereader" accommodations, since it sounds like he uses those.

I would say keep it. You can never tell what will happen and I doubt the actual issues have completely gone away.

The long-term issues to consider are high school, high stakes testing in high school, and college. You need to consider will your ds need accommodations for things such as:

High School: Do you know now that all high school teachers allow keyboarding for all students? My dysgraphic ds is in high school; he has some classes where the assignment instructions for essays specifically state "handwriting only", and he also has had some weird things come up such as an assignment to turn in handwritten flash cards. Is your ds using his extended time accommodation for tests? While he might not now, the rigor and time limits on tests might change as he reaches high school. The amount of time he needs to take to check math problems might change (therefore impacting test time). Is the state testing your ds has taken so far timed or untimed? If it's been untimed, look at his results for timed vs untimed testing on anything you have a comparison on - timing is often an issue for dysgraphic and dyslexic students, and it becomes more pervasive in testing as you go through high school, as well as becoming critically important when you take high stakes testing (SAT and ACT). It's possible the extended time for assignments might be more critical for your ds in high school than middle school with additional teachers and more rigorous coursework, or if he decides to participate in extra-curricular activities such as a sport or club that meets on weeknights.

High Stakes Testing: Same thing mentioned above + something - it isn't easy to get accommodations for extended time or use of a word processor for the SAT and ACT. You're expected to be able to provide a history of use of accommodations as well as "recent" testing showing the current impact on a student's functioning. Whether or not you think your ds will need the accommodations for the SAT and ACT, the one thing you can assure yourself of is that if he does, having the history of the same accommodations under a 504 plan will make it easier to prove he needs them when it's time to advocate for them.

I think it's also just a good idea in general for you and your ds to have a good understanding of which accommodations he is using and how his work without those accommodations compares to other students, and having the 504 plan in place, having the discussions with the team when the plan is reviewed each year, etc, helps a high school age student understand the impact of his/her challenges. For example, both my dysgraphic ds and my dyslexic dd take considerably more time to do their homework than their peers even *with* other accommodations such as ereaders for my dyslexic ds and typing for my dysgraphic ds. They've both made amazing progress with respect to their individual challenges thanks to help at school as well as private tutoring/remediation, but they are both still impacted. I'd want to be extra extra sure before dropping a 504 plan that the impact didn't still exist.

One other thought - kinda irrelevant but maybe worth thinking about - spelling is another huge issue for both my 2e kids, and they both use electronic spell-checkers and word prediction software, except on standardized testing. My ds' 504 plan has an accommodation to not get graded off for spelling but he also needs to still try to get his words spelled correctly (using whatever method works for him) so that other people who don't know him at some point in the future won't see his writing and judge him by his spelling. If your ds isn't using word prediction or an electronic spell-check of some type, you might want to start implementing it. Since he uses these accommodations, my ds' final drafts of written assignments rarely contain spelling errors - yet he still makes tons of errors on short-answer type assignments etc at school or on timed writing assignments when has to focus all of his time on the writing and doesn't have enough time to check spelling. Not all miss-spelled words are caught by his spell-checker.

I'd also think through, why is your ds getting a B+ in writing when he's getting As in everything else. Is there something he still needs help with, or is it an issue with appropriate accommodations?

Probably more thoughts than you need! To summarize: keep the 504 plan.

jmo,

polarbear

I would keep it. I sounds like he does use some of his accommodations. What is the reason to get rid of it? He may not need it in junior high, but as polarbear said High School is another battle all together. I only just got DS16 a 504 this past fall in 10th grade. He was able to cope without accommodations until this year but the extra demands on High School have made it necessary.

Is school pushing you to drop the 504? The High School pushed for us to drop DD's IEP because she wasn't really using it. But when I pushed and asked them to test her before I'd agree. The underlying LD was still there. School saw my DD as very functional (turning in assignments) therefore not in need of services but she was still struggling in ways that many other kids weren't and even though we didn't use it very often by H.S. It was still VERY helpful to have. One thing the 504/IEP allowed that I've found useful was preferential teacher picks for courses. While this hasn't always worked out, it has helped my kids from getting the worst of the teachers.

Yes, school is wondering why we want a 504 when he's doing so well and he doesn't use many of the accommodations. I feel a little silly saying he needs something that he doesn't use. I thought there was some kind of use-it-or-lose-it rule? For instance, since he doesn't use extra time in the classroom, he's not allowed extra time on state testing. And unless he types EVERYTHING, he can't use a keyboard on state testing.

I'd turn this around and ask why they want to take it away. I can see trimming the list of accommodations down to what he actually uses, but are they saying that he doesn't have a disability any more? On what basis?

Excellent advice above. I would echo the concerns about transition to high school and post-secondary. Quite often, I see students who are raised as initial referrals in ninth grade, and then when I start digging, I find out that they were on IEPs or 504s all through elementary, but were dismissed in 7th grade "because they were doing so well". They made it through 8th grade, often because they were in the same schools, where teachers already knew (or heard from colleagues) what their accommodations were, and essentially kept them on informal support. Then they came to us and imploded. Not saying this will happen to him, but I've seen it enough times that I would be very cautious about this. One of my big regrets among specific professional decisions I've made in the past was recommending dismissal for a kid in 8th grade, who then had a very difficult ninth grade year (resulting in being placed back on a plan).

If he is using any of his accommodations, then he clearly needs his 504 accommodation plan. And not true in most states (maybe different in yours) that he has to keyboard everything to qualify for typed responses on state testing. Does he use it for extended writing? That's usually enough to say it's a routine classroom accommodation. There may also be accommodations that he should have that he isn't getting, that might make a difference between B+ and A. For example, for a dysgraphic, I would typically recommend supplementary oral assessment, and offering alternative assignments for extended writing projects (especially when writing is not the instructional focus). He probably would benefit from spellcheck and thesaurus also. The latter in particular because, with his reading level, he probably has a much larger oral vocabulary than he is able to locate in a spelling dictionary, and, if he is like the dyslexics/dysgraphics I usually see at the secondary level, likely "dumbs down" his written vocabulary to limit the spelling damage. The thesaurus is another way for him to locate the correct spelling of words that he knows how to use, so that his written work more closely approximates his actual language abilities. Even if his writing looks fine, it still may be a marked underrepresentation of his actual ability to express himself using language.

Do you think he will need an extended time accommodation for the SAT/ACT? If so, he should keep the 504 and *use* the extended time accommodation. They ask if the student actually uses the accommodations they are allowed. If not, my understanding is that accommodations will be denied.

The SAT/ACT are different than most classroom tests. The reading demand is heavier and they are more tightly timed. My son is dyslexic, and if he is well prepared for a classroom test, he can generally finish in the time allotted, but he really needed that extra time for the ACT.

Here is something that was recently posted at the Dyslexic Advantage site about this: http://blog.dyslexicadvantage.org/2...ions-for-college-exams-psat-sat-and-act/

Yes.

IME high school teachers often expect serious independence at a level that may not be a problem for a neurotypical child but may just be an emerging skill for a 2E. You can explain the disability, you can advocate, but it can be very tricky to get everyone on board-- their expectations are what they are.

The 504 is an essential piece of protection for cases like this.

My DD sounds similar to your kid. She is dyslexic/dysgraphic and is getting As and Bs in her middle school gt program. Our middle school took the opposite approach with our DD. They encouraged us to add every accommodation that we thought DD would possibly need to her 504 and then use the time in middle school to tease out what works best for her. They know the high school and said that if we didn't get stuff in place at the middle school level it would be almost impossible to add anything new in high school.

One caution re the "add everything" approach - We ran into a battling accommodations problem. When it came time for the dreaded PARCC testing to begin, DD wanted to stay in her regular classroom with her regular teacher to help her keep her anxiety under control. The admin people insisted that she had to go to a separate room to get the extra time and sit with some kids with truly challenging behavior. We ultimately dodged the bullet because extra time was built into the testing schedule so DD could stay in the regular class room.

What accommodations does he have that he isn't using? Could you list them here? I'd also go through each of them with him to get an answer re why he isn't using them. There are several different reasons students don't use accommodations - with my ds we've run into each of these reasons:

* He was uncomfortable using the accommodation because it was an obvious accommodation that peers weren't using

* It wasn't convenient (or easy) to use - extended time on tests in high school, for instance, means he has to give up part of his lunch hour in some cases

* He doesn't want to have to be in the position of needing the accommodation, therefore he doesn't use it

* Teachers passively (or actively) discourage it or make it difficult to use

* It's not the best solution for the thing we're attempting to accommodate for, so he has either worked out a better accommodation for himself or has given up

* The actual accommodation is difficult to use (we're run into this with note-taking and voice-to-text apps)

* He perceives it doesn't make a difference



We don't have a "use-it-or-lose-it" rule here, but the intent is that the accommodations on the 504 are *needed* - which means that in most instances, they would be used in class. For state/standardized testing accommodations to be included you have to have proof that there is a need, and according to policy the same accommodations have to be *given* in class. This is technically different than being "used" in class. My ds has an extended time accommodation for all classroom and state testing as part of his 504 plan, which means he can use extended time on tests in the classroom when he needs to. He doesn't have to use it every time, and in fact, he rarely needs it in the classroom... because:

As another poster pointed out above, there is often a large difference between classroom and state testing circumstances. Re dysgraphia, my ds always has the option of using his keyboard in the classroom on testing, but on state testing he can only keyboard on essay questions, which only appear on one type of writing assessment. So answering questions on state testing does take him longer when he's writing or circling an answer by hand. Classroom tests are also usually given with a larger time window for answering that state/standardized/high stakes testing -so although my ds doesn't use extended time frequently, he *is* one of the last kids in the class typically to turn in a test. This is something you might want to clarify with your ds or your teachers if you are truly considering dropping the extended time or if the school pushes you to drop it. If the school is pushing you to drop it, I'd request current testing showing that whatever testing data identifying the need initially has changed (example: relatively low processing speed score on WISC for writing, reading tests for dyslexia, discrepancy in scores for timed vs untimed achievement tests etc). If it hasn't changed, the need is still there. Also ask for a timed handwriting sample and compare # of letters per minute to grade-level peers.


Do you mean everything in the classroom or everything on the state testing? This really doesn't make sense, but from two different perspectives.

First - if it means everything on the state testing, it's very normal to only allow keyboarding on essay questions. I've never heard of a student keyboarding fill-in-the-blanks or multiple choice answers on state testing.

Second - if he's not keyboarding *everything* in the classroom, what is he keyboarding? It totally makes sense that he shouldn't have a keyboarding accommodation for state testing if he's using handwriting for essay questions in classwork, but you've stated that all of the students use keyboarding (one reason the school is saying he doesn't need a 504 accommodation for it). This is really circular logic that is missing the point - dysgraphic students need to keyboard to bypass all the issues with handwriting that prevent them from showing their full knowledge when using handwriting. They may be able to compose an essay, but their working memory will be taken up with the how-to of writing letters, and they won't have access to the wm needed for correct spelling, correct grammar, or adding the detail to their writing that they can add when using keyboarding or giving oral responses. I think it's really important that you obtain some samples of your ds' current work using handwriting vs oral response and vs keyboarding to get an idea of currently how much dysgraphia is impacting your ds. Also ask him to handwrite for you and see if it causes him wrist pain.

Third question about keyboarding "everything" - if this is coming from the school, are they saying he needs to be keyboarding short answer questions too? My ds has an accommodation allowing him to keyboard anything and everything, but he typically does not keyboard "short" answers on science tests - things that are one-two sentences max and don't require open-ended creative writing.

polarbear

PB, thanks for such a detailed response and ideas. My son has the same excuses you list, as to why he doesn't use his 504. In addition, he doesn't think it's fair that he would get extra time, and get to keyboard when other kids (who also want the time and keyboard) are not allowed. He would never do that to his friends, even if we explain why he should.

The accommodations he doesn't use:
- extra time. In fact, he is often the first one finished. When his reading teacher told me this at the beginning of the year, we each coached my son to take all the time given (not extra time) to make sure he was doing his best work. That did make a difference in his performance. Does he need the extended time on his 504? Apparently not at this point, but thanks to this thread, I realize we don't know whether he'll need it in the future.

-- keyboarding all assignments and notes. Other kids are required to make class notes in composition notebooks. He won't keyboard when the other kids aren't allowed, even though he can't read his handwriting about half the time.

-- the teacher is supposed to check with him to make sure he understands the assignment or test questions. This is on the 504, but left over from elementary school. I insisted on it because he often made math mistakes when he skipped over words in word problems. He doesn't use this, and would be mortified if a teacher checked his comprehension (and in fact, his reading comprehension is particularly high).


This is an interesting distinction, and it's not the way I understand it. I'll have to check on it. Another problem with the way my son's school uses the extra time for state testing is that my son would have to go into a different room for testing, which he would be too embarrassed to do. All his friends would ask why he didn't take the test.. and then he'd say he did in a different room. I can see why that's uncomfortable for him.


Great idea. I've seen this mentioned before, and of course I should ask that they test to prove he doesn't need it.


I didn't mean to imply he had to keyboard multiple choice answers, although they are computerized. I was talking about writing prompts. And I was told that unless he always answers ALL writing prompts on the computer, he can't make an exception and keyboard the prompts during state tests.
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Thank you soooo much for everyone's thoughts and ideas about how to handle this. I obviously don't know what high school challenges he will have and even though he's doing great in school now, I realize I do need to be prepared for the unexpected with his 504. I guess my strategy at our 504 meeting will be to tell them unless they have data to proof he no longer needs the accommodations, we'll keep them!

This is something that may change as he matures and also as the workload gets heavier at school.


If the school urges you to drop the extended time, in addition to the testing request I mentioned above, you can mention this as a data point - his performance improved when he took the extra time (even though it wasn't "extra" extra time). If the school responds with "all students would improve their scores if given extra time" respond "but not all students have a disability, this is not an issue of asking for extra time, it's an issue of giving a child with a disability a fair and equitable amount of time due to the disability."


Notetaking is something our ds still has issues with, and it's something we're still working with and urging our ds to use his accommodations for. While he may be coasting through school now able to use handwriting for his note taking, it's going to catch up with your ds at some point - because eventually the purpose of taking notes is to be able to *read* them and use them to study from or write a report from. In high school eventually one teacher somewhere (if not quite a few teachers) are most likely going to require that he turn notes in to be graded, and legibility will count then.

I know it's tough to keyboard when other kids aren't. Our ds struggled with not wanting to because the other kids weren't keyboarding for several years. Middle school was ok for the most part because, like your ds' school, the students *all* keyboarded essays etc. Then when ds went to high school - very few students were using laptops etc in class plus he was surrounded by kids he didn't know - all of which made him retreat into that kid who didn't want to keyboard again. However... he had also matured into a student who wanted to keep up and do well, and by ninth grade he was really starting to understand what it meant to have dysgraphia, how it impacted him, etc... so there was a bit of a coming together of understanding on his part that changed his attitude about using the keyboard in class when no one else did, and he's gotten used to it and doesn't think twice about it anymore.



I would let this accommodation drop, unless you feel he still needs it.


Do you know he'd be too uncomfortable with it? Has he tried it? My ds had to go into a different room in elementary school, but the other kids never made a big deal about it. DS just told them it's because he needs extra time and use of a laptop to write, which the other kids accepted because they knew he used the laptop in class. In middle school ds was given the choice of going to a separate room or staying with his class in the regular room and he sometimes chose the regular room, other times chose the separate room because it was quiet and had less distractions. Eventually he preferred going to the quiet room over staying with classmates. When he did stay with classmates, he went to another room to use his extended time. Anyway, it's possible if you asked your ds to give it a try one time, he'd find it's not as off-putting as he may think it will be.


By writing prompts I am guessing you mean essay type answers, which are a paragraph or longer. To be honest, I don't think this is an unreasonable expectation - if he's able to use handwriting to produce essays from writing prompts that meet grade-level expectations within the same amount of time as other students, that don't show impact from his disability (excessive spelling/grammar errors due to dysgraphia etc) and that *do* show the full extent of his knowledge (i.e., there is no discernable difference between his handwritten output, his typing output or his verbal output using the same type of question/prompt), then he doesn't need the accommodation for handwriting. HOWEVER... your ds seems to need the accommodation from what you've said, he's just not using it in all circumstances where he *does* need to use it. I'd turn this one around on the school and request that his teachers prompt him to use his keyboard for all writing prompts. We had to do this for a year with our ds in order to get him to be willing to take out his laptop when peers weren't using keyboarding. DS didn't like it at first, but it also was a bit of a relief to him to have the teacher tell him to use it - that felt less like he was doing something the other kids didn't "get" to do. And by the time he hit upper middle school and high school and had more complicated writing assignments being assigned, he was willing to use his keyboard and uses it now with not even thinking about it - which is important, because at this point, the work would be way too much without it.


Great strategy! Although you can possibly drop the one mentioned above about teacher-check-in... so that gives you a small amount of "give" which is always nice to have something so that it doesn't appear you're just insisting on accommodations willy-nilly having given them any thought

Another reason to keep the 504 that came to mind after I replied yesterday: in high school, teachers will be expecting your ds to advocate for himself. He will also be required to attend his 504 team meetings (at least that's what happens here), and he'll be the person answering the questions and telling the staff what he does and doesn't need included in it. Middle school isn't just a time for you to be sure the 504 is in order for high school, it's also the time where you need to start preparing your ds to eventually advocate for himself, and working now to help him understand where he does and doesn't need his accommodations is a big part of that. Once he's in high school, having the 504 will give him a backbone of support when he needs to advocate with a teacher who's not understanding why he needs an accommodation.

Hope that makes sense!

polarbear

Thanks PB!