Anyone's DC starting K now or soon? I find I am feeling very strange about it. DS actually got into the gifted program, so after all my anxiety it worked out for us but I find myself nervous about how well it will go, how good a fit it will be, especially since he is doing one of those growth jumps - he seems to have added a new gear! But I am trying not to obsess about potential negatives - and instead focusing on folders and pencils, and that huge school supply list! It's not working very well though

But based on the experiences here it seems like it's a better idea to see how it plays out and then go speak with them, see what if anything they figure out about him on their own. Camp this summer taught DS that yes there are kids that like you and what you like so he seems excited but I am worried that this will wear off.

DeHe

I have a ds starting kinder on the 29th. We don't have a gifted program until 2nd grade (sigh). He will be starting off accelerated for math at least +1. Our schools are blocking math (starting this year woooohoo) which makes this possible. Reading is guided reading so I don't for see this as a problem.

I worry that the teacher will have her hands full with him if she can't differentiate with writing skills and other "basic" kinder activities. I just can't see my son sitting there learning to form letters and number.. or shapes and colors.


Sheila

My twins started K last week but they are not super speed academics yet...but they also are only 4, just preparing to turn 5. They have already stated that everything the teacher is teaching they already know (they are reading and doing addition/subtraction etc and the class is doing letters and number identification...)...which frankly I'd love to never hear again...as my oldest has worn me out educationally with teachers and issues! Their teachers are aware of big brother DS8 and his abilities and acceleration so they said they would let me know how it is going at the first conference. My twins are FAR more advanced socially and behaviorally than DS8 was at this age...so I don't think they will get noticed as easily as he did.
I hope your little ones have a successful year in K! Its the first big step into the school system!

My DD5 is starting K this week. There is no gifed programming until 3rd, no plan for any acceleration, and we are being told there will be "other kids like her" in her class. I am truly hoping there will be. An apology to those who have heard my DD's history which is similar to many children on here, but I am repeating for any new parents so they can see what it is like for others in similar situations. She has been reading since two, knew upper and lower case letters and their sounds since 1.5, has been telling time forever, understands addition, subtraction, fractions, beginning multiplication and division, did skip counting since just turning three, writes and draws well, and has an amazing memory for facts and so on and so forth. She has testing in the 99th percentile. I am meeting with her teacher on Monday and I am not sure what to say or not say. Maybe she will love kindergarten and maybe there will be several kids like her in her class, and they will be forced to find work at their level. A mom can hope.

One thing to focus on is social skills. Alot of kindergarten is just social, I think, esp. if kids weren't in daycare. Learning the rules of the road. Keep your hands to your self, sit down when the teacher says to sit down! Making friends and being a friend. Working on fine motor skills like holding a pencil, writing letters, cutting with scissors.
These sound like silly skills but they really aren't. A fair number of posters whose kids skip kindy later write of how their kid has poor executive function, poor writing skills, ADD, etc.
At the end of kindergarten last year, the teacher apologized, saying she didn't think he learned that much there. He got
> 160 on the RIAS IQ test. On the other hand, he is very popular! All the little girls want to sit by him in class, LOl.
For now, that's good enough. We work with him at home on school things, and he's very happy.

I haven't noticed that - my son, for one, had all of the above challenges and not only did he do kindy, he was in a 'preschool type daycare' from 7 weeks of age. But maybe it would have been much worse if he had skipped K or been home with me instead. ((shrugs)) But my guess is that for about half of highly and profoundly gifted children, all of the above issues are part of 'asynchronous development and 2E.' One thing I do know - every choice has it's risks and it's benefits and we only go around once.

That's excellent news and I'm very happy to hear it. So much depends on the child's personality. I have heard plenty of stories of non-grade skipped PGlets who thrive. Some do, some don't. Flexibility to change things if they aren't working, and relationship with the child to know when it isn't working is the key, I think.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Peace,
Grinity

My DD started K on Wednesday. So far, it's a disaster! She's going to a beautiful Montessori charter school, where each child gets an individualized learning plan. Her teacher is so nice and talented. However, my DD really does NOT want to be there. She's tried to run away several times, and she's having meltdowns. Fortuntately, the teachers have also seen her positive side, and they say that there have also been times when she's been very good. Overall, however, I fear it's going to be a rough road ahead.

A little bit about my daughter. She has major overexcitabilities, sensory issues, and asynchronies. She was reading before she was potty trained, now she's an avid reader and also interested in math and science. She loves adults, but doesn't click with kids her own age and never made a friend in preschool. She did well and enjoyed preschool from ages 2.5-3.5, but the next year things started going downhill. In February, I pulled her out of preschool because I discovered that there were 9 mean boys who where calling her names and bullying her, and I felt that this situation was untenable for her and that it was causing her meltdowns. At the teacher's recommendation, I had her evaluated by a developmental psychologist who emphatically said that she does not have any kind of developmental disorder like asperger's, just exceptional giftedness. She did very well with no behavior problems from February until June when she wasn't in PS, but then the problems really started when she started attending summer camps. Some of the camps were better than others, and I think she made progress socially. However she was often in trouble, and worst of all her ANGER! started coming out. She gets so angry over little things, and has no frustration tolerance at all. In May, she had huge self-esteem, but this summer started saying things like, "I want the universe to go away!" "I hate myself", "I want to get killed!" (We have an appointment with a child psychiatrist, but it's not until Sept 2). By the end of summer, she'd had enough of the camps, even though she also had a lot of fun there. We took a trip to Chicago where we went to 4 hands-on museums, and she was so happy and really in her element.
Two days after we got home, it was time to start Kindergarten. The first day was horrible, but the second 2 days were better, though she still hates it. They're learning how do things like stand in line, which she hates -- she's so independent and non-conformist; she just wants to do her own thing. The children were supposed to line up at the end of recess, and she wouldn't do it so all the children started chanting her name for her to climb down from the play structure. I asked her if that name-chanting bothered her, and she said, "No, it sounded like music, so I just started dancing." She's so outside of the box and so different from the other children that I don't know if she can adapt... homeschooling would devastate us financially, plus we don't have any kids in our neighborhood, cousins, or good social connections, and she's an only child. We have a meeting with the teacher and principal on Monday. I'm supposed to bring a list of strategies... I hope we can make this work. I realize Montessori can be problematic for some gifted kids, but it's our only viable option as they don't have a gifted school or self-contained gifted classes in our area.

I feel horrible, ashamed, and embarrassed ... For the past 5 years, I've tried to nurture her giftedness while allowing her to just be a kid. I feel terrible that it's come to this...We have a loving and supportive home, and I love her unconditionally and so does her dad... She has so many wonderful qualities also.
Thank you for reading. I wish you all the best with your child's Kindergarten experiences.

Your description of Kindergarten is just what I hope my son will learn when he starts next year. This year is his first year in preschool and I consider that a "playdate". He's an only child, so the social skills are my priority!

Oh Darling - big hugs for you....all of us just do the best we can and hope it's enough. Not all kids have an easy time of it!

If you haven't already read 'Transforming the difficult Child Workbook' by Lisa Bravo, give that a try. When things get bad I watch South Park and be grateful my child isn't as bad as those pretend kids on TV.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I think this sums up my anxiety and we HAVE the gifted programing! Fingers crossed that the teacher is a good one!

DeHe

Jeimey
I am so sorry it's been so tough. My DS had a hard time at the end of pre-k too, not like the situation you are describing but bad enough. I was quite despairing of repairing his pysche. He too is an onlie and we absolutely feed his needs, he too loves adults more. Don't beat yourself up for what you have done and why, you do the best for the situation you are in and it changes from year to year. Sounds like she doesn't trust school, and why would she, it was bad and then she left. And this time, she has a great vacation with her favorite people in the world totally catered to her interests and now she is in a place that only partially does that. So it sounds like progress, it takes a long time for a deep thinker to get over the wounds, it sure did for my DS and it wasn't as severe. DS had a great camp placement which undid a lot of damage because he had help from the counselors on how to negotiate the social world with people not at his level. I would talk to the teacher about what kind of help she might need, chanting, even if she didn't mind it, sounds awful and very them against her. Peer pressure is not a good approach for someone who has been bullied.

I hope things improve!

DeHe

Oh Jeimey, I feel for you. I am so sorry your DD is struggling at school. That's horrible that boys were teasing her. Were those boys held accountable?
My DD is highly over-excitable and there have been many times I was ashamed and embarassed by her intensity. This is why this message board can be such a refuge.

Do you work with an OT? Is the school using any type of a sensory diet?

I hope things go better this week. Has she said anything about the upcoming school week?

we are hoping to work on social skills in K as well. My DD5 actually has a fair number of friends and is very extroverted but needs to work on impulse control, not bossing others around, keeping her volume under control and not letting her "sillies" go over the top at the wrong time and place. She has had tons of social interaction, classes, playdates, but it is still a work in progress ;-)

Thank you to everyone for your support. I need to get over myself and keep working to do the best for her and think positively. Thank you for the book suggestion, Grinity. I have not read that one, but I just ordered it. Dehe, that's a really good point you made about "peer pressure". She's certainly not ready to be able to distinguish between "good" vs "bad" peer pressure, and I will be sure to discuss this with the teacher at our meeting on Monday. Twinkletoes: regarding her sensory issues that , she's not working with an OT because the developmental pediatrician did not recommend any intervention since her sensory issues seemed "mild" to her. In her report, she recommended "patient understanding", such as cutting out the tags, giving her adequate space, etc. Regarding the bullying, I'm not sure to what extent those boys were held accountable. The teacher thought she was an "easy target" for bullying because of her exhuberance and differences from the others. As soon as I realized how bad the situation was, I took her out of the school. Had it been just one or two boys, I would have tried to work through it, but it was 1/3 of the class, and the rest of the children thought she was really weird. She seemed so much better after I pulled her out that I thought she got away "unharmed", but with her 'elephant memory' it will take time to work though these issues, and undo the damage.

I've made a list of strategies to share with the teacher and principal on Monday. I can only hope we will be able to work together to make it work out. My daughter has a cold now, and she's really hoping that she'll be too sick to go to school on Monday...! On the other hand, she said that each day was better than the day before it, and she's been willing to talk to me about what goes on at K...including some activities that she liked. She was never willing to talk about preschool. Also she said there's a girl in her class who is "kind of" her friend because they played together at recess. That's major progress!

DD5.5 started K last week. We do not know her LOG, if there is any right at this point. We are very curious what this year will bring.

Has anyone started school yet? How has it been going so far?


EJ starts this afternoon . He was switched from the morning so he can join the first graders for math. I am so nervous. I know I will bawl when I put my baby on the bus after lunch.

We started Friday. The first day was fine -- all focused on getting used to the room. I'm launched my plan for getting DS the education he needs. With such spiky skills and a school terrified of "gaps", it's going to take some delicate work. We'll push harder once (1) DS has the norms of working in a classroom and "doing" school and (2) he expresses boredom or contempt for the class. I actually suspect contempt will show itself first.

All of the above could be 100% or partially caused by 'sensory issues' that can be treated by an OT who does SID therapy. You may say 'she loves her independence' but just as likely, she can't tolerate the other kids being so close to her and she is trying to avoid a melt-down. See the difference?

I would call back the developmental pediatrician, tell all of the above 'highlights' and say that you think it's worth it to give OT a try. The sensitities may seem mild when dealing with a single adult in a quiet office, but they are more than she can handle during her normal daily life.

I say call the developmental ped, because even though the psyc may be an important part of the picture, they are much more likely to see the issues as 'internal' and not so familiar with sensory issues.

Let me know how that 'transforming workbook' is going - it can be tough to get started because it's very different from our usual way of seeing the world.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I am soooo bad

I made a copy of dd7's accelerated math homework and gave it ds5. I had him put it in his backpack to bring back to school

Do you mind if I ask on what grounds they ruled out developmental disorders? Your DD sounds very like mine in kindergarten. He had meltdowns routinely, difficulty following classroom routines, couldn't sit for circle time. It was a very tough run. We were told for years that he was "bright but quirky"-- turned out, gifted with Asperger's.

Girls with Asperger's are typically under-diagnosed; they usually try hard to be sociable, and their fantasy play is more typical looking than what the boys do (lining up objects), so they "pass," but their issues can be as disabling, since girls have to have such finely tuned social radar to succeed.


Do keep that appointment. This is something to take very seriously.

My DS had serious self-esteem problems because he was doing so poorly in school; he thought it was all his fault. Learning he had AS was a huge step in a good direction for him, because it's not his fault.


Won't, or can't comply with instructions? How is she on following multi-step directions at home?


FWIW Montessori doesn't work well for most kids with Asperger's either-- they are not self-directed learners except in areas that interest them intensely. I think you should try to figure out what's up before switching schools. If there's a disability, public school will have resources private school will not likely provide.


Don't. No matter what it is, it's the hand she's dealt, and it's your job to help her master the challenges that come with that hand. She needs you to stay calm and positive and look for solutions that help her manage herself better.

(I know, having a kid like this can be very isolating for you. But don't let it happen. Find a few understanding allies.)

In your shoes I'd ask the school for a multi-factored evaluation, listing everything she's having trouble with and getting the kindergarten teacher to do the same, and see what they come up with. As well as keeping that appt. with the private psych.

DeeDee

Our gifted program doesn't start until second grade

Ds started on Monday. He has not been brought to the first grade for math just yet. I am hoping they start next week. He did bring home his first packet of homework today and it had an added page just for him. I am so excited to see differentiation already. It involves writing, which he can always use practice doing.

DS's been in K for a few weeks now. He turns 6 soon. He is an only child and possibly Aspie but, we haven't gone into more in depth testing. He does have an IEP for AS. School seems to be going pretty well. We don't have gifted classes until 3rd grade here. He did have a problem at the library wanting to choose a book from a section they weren't allowed to. Otherwise he seems perfectly content to identify the letter O etc. while coming home and reading chapter books. I only wonder how long that can last. I really hated elementary school so I feel I project some of my feelings onto him.

I did want to add he is doing great on his writing, that is a big thing he doesn't like to do because it is not perfect.

Thank you to those who offered comments about my DD's Kindergarten situation. I'm happy to report that things have been getting better, and she seems to be adjusting day by day. The first day was definitely the worst, and she had another bad day last week when they had a fire drill, but overall she's reporting that she likes a lot of the activities there and she's coming home tired but happy. She hasn't been having meltdowns or anger issues at home lately.

Regarding OT for Sensory Issues -- Sensory Processing/Integration Disorder is not an official diagnosis in the DSM-IV (official manual of mental disorders). Therefore, our physician doesn't believe in it, and the our insurance doesn't cover it. We were told just to be patient and understanding with her sensitivities -- that they're very common in young children, particularly gifted ones, and it's something she will mostly outgrow. Indeed, these sensory issues pose few real problems at home; they're more of a concern at school where there are more bodies, more chaos, fire drills, etc. I'm not sure to what extent it is interfering with her ability to participate and be successful at school, so I'm having the teacher document her behavior, including sensory issues. If there's a clear pattern, I'll try to persue it further.

Regarding Asperger's/Developmental disorders, these were ruled out because of the way she interacts with adults in a reciprocal manner. It was noted that she has advanced communication skills, which include being able to empathize, negotiate, and understand others' points of view and their body language. Additionally, she uses very expressive and appropriate intonation and gestures while communicating. Cognitively, she has a wide range of interests, and she's is interested in concepts and relationships between ideas, as opposed to memorization of facts. I'm certainly not opposed to her or any child getting a diagnosis if it allows them to get the help and services that they need, but it's pretty clear to me that her behavior does not match the criteria in the DSM-IV. Furthermore, she seems to do really well with the self-directed aspects of Montessori; it's the other times, like group activities and waiting in line that can be problematic for her.

Today, she had her appointment with the psychiatrist, who said that DD's statements such as "I want to get killed" are just attention-seeking and probably not indicative of depression. She said that my DD is a very strong-willed only child who's used to being the focus of attention and getting immediate response from her parents. The psych failed to establish any kind of rapport with DD, (which doesn't say too much for her, since DD loves adults), so DD didn't open up or share anything about her feelings. I appreciated hearing the psych's opinion, but she didn't offer us any new strategies, or anything helpful. (I'm getting more out of the books I've been reading) She said she wanted to see DD again in a month, but since she didn't connect at all with DD, I don't think it's worth our time to go again.

However what does seem to be helping DD is her school experience. I couldn't be more impressed with her teacher. She is so understanding, and patient, and she has so many skills and strategies, but it open to trying new suggestions. She reports DD's behavior is getting better, and that she often joins the circle time of her own choosing and participates. The teacher also has seen right away DD is way more advanced academically than the other children. The whole school is really very supportive, and they haven't made us feel like we're at fault for sending such a spoiled, demanding, only child to school, nor have they accused us of hothousing her. It's a very cooperative relationship, and I couldn't be more pleased.

However I know that there will still be challenges, and I know that she'll never be the "goody-two shoes" that I was as a MG, non-intense child. We're documenting everything now at both home and school, and they'll do more evaluations if necessary. At this point, I don't think we're going to have any luck with diagnoses but I'm remaining open to it. The teacher is very optimistic that DD will adapt and be successful in the classroom.
Thank you for the encouragement and insight. I really like what DeeDee wrote: "it's the hand she's dealt, and it's your job to help her master the challenges that come with that hand. She needs you to stay calm and positive and look for solutions that help her manage herself better." Keeping that in my mind and heart!

Here is a summary of what happened at the psychiatrist today. Her teacher wishes to know the results of the appointment, but I'm not sure what I should share. The teacher is so warm and kind and understanding toward DD, and toward us as parents. I wonder if this report will change that. What do you think? :

Overall the psychiatrist appointment was not very productive in my opinion. The first hour consisted of discussion with the parents. During this hour, DD told to draw with markers or play with legos. There were other toys in view, but Alison was not allowed to play with them. She was actively discouraged from interacting with the adults during this time. This was supposed to be just "adult" conversation. The psychiatrist was not warm or friendly toward her, and did not want her to be interacting with us during the adult time. For part of the time, Alison was able to occupy herself with the markers and legos, but she soon got restless, bored, and then angry. Finally, it was time for DD to have one-on-one time with the psychiatrist while the parents left the room. DD was in a very agitated state at this point, and it was reported that she was very uncooperative with the psychiatrist and would not answer her questions. We were told that her development and her issues were normal, and that we should set firm limits with her and allow her to get frustrated and angry without quickly intervening. The psychiatrist felt that DD's statements, such as "I want to get killed", are an attention-seeking behavior, and not indicative of depression. She offered no strategies for dealing with her issues of frustration, anger-management, overgeneralization, and perfectionism, etc, but seemed to think that her growing up as an only child with responsive parents who tend to focus their attention on her -- is the cause of her difficulties adapting to the school environment where she cannot be the center of attention.

Jeimey - I'd be really angry at a report like that, esp when the scene was set for unresponsive right from the start! Can you not see someone who specialises in PG kids?


****

Aiden will start grade 0 (K) in January here. we are very excited for him to be there - the teacher he will have will be great for him I think. the school had a long meeting with the parents a few days ago (DH went, i was at home with the kids) and he is quite excited by what they presented - they explained how they work with the kids and how they teach through play. They did bang on a bit about the fine motor skills blah blah (Aiden is not a fan of loads of colouring - he will do a bit and then prefers to find something else to do, and they colour and cut out every single day at the moment in pre-K), but they also mentioned some specific kids who are scattered through the school (pre - 7) who are far advanced in maths or other subjects.

So we are re-assured for now and the aim is just to get him though the boring stuff this year and into the good stuff next year where we hope he will feel happier and more excited to learn at school. currently he is of the opinion that if he wants to learn or know something he waits to get home.

That sounds really good! I hope she adjusts nicely.


That alone isn't a rule-out. Or a rule-in. Most AS kids do quite well with adults, and poorly with peers.


Empathy is a good sign; but it depends how people define empathy. It can be slippery. My DS (who has AS) is sensitive to other people's emotions, but not able to guess other's thoughts or motivations accurately. This CAN look like empathy.


Not a rule-out. Lots of gifted AS kids can do these things.

I guess what I'm saying is, I see some flags here. How is she with peers? Can she follow directions she doesn't want to follow? Most kindergartners can, at least much of the time.

Not to alarm you but just to let you know that AS gets missed in girls, as do other developmental issues like ADD. My niece has AS, and she's very bright and imaginative, but socially disconnected from peers and highly stressed at school. It's very subtle, and also makes things very difficult for her.


You know, blaming the parents is so 1950s. I think this is both unhelpful and inappropriate on the psychologist's part.

(We saw this kind of psych, too, when DS was 5. Told us if we just implemented time outs correctly, he'd be a different child. Uh, no, he had autism, and really well-executed time outs weren't going to solve that.)

I'm glad you are watching closely, and documenting everything. A suicide threat, no matter how young the child, has to be taken seriously. If it were my kid, I wouldn't be going back to that psych, but might seek help from a developmental pediatrician who's seen gifted kids, to help you sort out what's up.

DeeDee

As I look at supplementing ds in math.. I am looking at Singapore math. Does anyone have any experience with it?

We have Singapore workbooks for when DS asks for math homework.

What's your goal? It's good for practicing arithmetic concepts, but if I were going to do a focused supplement at this point, I'd probably focus on logic, patterns and the like. Games like Set, Mastermind, Parcheesi, and Chess are all great.

I just wanted to give a K update after a week and a half in school. So far, my DD5 is positive for the most part, but she is sad that they don't do any crafts, very limited outdoor time, and rushed snacks. They are doing very simple group activities, and SLOWLY trying to figure out where students fall in ability, but I am afraid they will just shoot too low to see how far she can go. My DD often says she can't do things and won't do them, but if approached the right way, can really surprise even me with what she knows or can do. I am meeting with the teacher and the evaluator who assessed my DD and am a little nervous about the whole thing. I am worried about upsetting the applecart and setting the teacher up to want to prove that my DD is not gifted etc. The teacher has told me that my DD is behaving just fine and after watching the kids before and after school, she actually seems more mature than many, particularly the boys. Her hand writing is good too so in many ways she is so ready to be out of K, but she is very afraid of growing up (has been talking a lot about aging, loss of childhood, death, etc.) so I don't want to rush her either. It is so hard to have a little sweet girl with a child's heart and fears who also has a mind that is so far ahead of her in many ways. We just take it day by day and hope for the best. She loves to play and is social so overall, she is doing great.

Great to hear that your DD is doing Great! Great that her maturity level seems about right (take a peek in the 1st grade room and mentally see how much of an oulier she would be there) - there is nothing like seeing a room full of kids to get a sense of the range of normal.

Half day kindy might be the just right thing for your DD for now -so enjoy it! It's normal to be nervous about meetings, but if the evaluator will be there then you shouldn't have to do too much of the heavy lifting. Reminds me of the recent Aimee Yermish blog:

http://davincilearning.wordpress.com/author/ayermish/

I GIVE UP ! I am so angry right now. I just spoke with the principal.. they will not be moving ds to first grade math. Now they will be doing in class differentiation. I feel as though I have been totally deceived. I would have made different school choices for ds (he was offered a spot at the Chinese immersion school but no acceleration).

Here is the email he sent me today..

Mrs. D.,

After speaking with Mrs. H., who oversees our Gifted Education program, and Mr. V., who oversees our math and science department, they have both recommended differentiation within the classroom. Ds has not been in school for two full weeks yet so we are getting to know him and what his true abilities are in math. Most importantly, we want to see him work in the classroom applying math concepts, not just being able to do math computation. Mrs. P will have a much better feel for this once she works with him more in class. There are many important aspects to the kindergarten classroom and many concepts and skills re interwoven through their day, both academics and social/emotional learning. We will certainly work with you to meet the needs of EJ here in school. Please trust that Ms. P will be doing what is best for EJ based on his daily work and performance in the classroom setting.

If you would like to contact Mrs. H. or Mr. V., I have included them on the email. As always, feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns that you have.

Argh, that must be so annoying given that you carefully considered two choices and the offer of math acceleration was a factor in your decision! I think if it were me I'd be going in with both a smile and a sting - saying that of course you understand the importance of applying maths and of the various K skills, but that the principal will remember having agreed on [date] that [child] would be accelerated to 1st for maths and that this was a major factor in your decision to send him there. I'd copy to the other recipients of this email, so that they all knew the principal explicitly offered this - he may be feeling that he shouldn't have done, and wriggling.

I'd try to leave open, though, the possibility that there really *is* a better option for him than subject acceleration. It may be that the principal said yes because you were keen on it, but that the principal knows less about what will work in the school than these other people do and they may actually have better ideas. My angle: I was quite keen* for my mathy DS to go to a higher class for maths to start with, but in the end I'm glad I let them convince me that it wasn't sensible. In the early years classrooms here, at least, they don't have a fixed timetable that would make it practical to go out for one lesson and come back for something else - he'd perpetually have been coming back in the middle of something. (They have a timetable, but as it's all one teacher, it gets honoured in the breach.) I think that was a major reason why my DS's school weren't keen on the idea, but the effect of the differentiation he got (at school and supported at home) was that within months he was a lot more than one year ahead anyway, which made the whole thing moot. I think subject acceleration would have just left him bored slightly further on, and not solved the problem at all.

*ah, actually, we have archives to keep us honest :-) - seems my feelings at the time were a bit more complicated than that!

This is pretty much what the Montessori school told us. Mr W needed to be more diligent in doing his 10 piece puzzles. (Which he could do at 9 months. ) LOL.

Does the immersion school still have an open slot?

immersion does not.. its a public school in our district. Once we made the decision the spot was given to someone else.

So DS finished his first week of his gifted K. Ive been a wreck with the new logistics but he seems happy that it finally started - for him wondering what will happen is anxiety ridden, actually experiencing is interesting. Which means the days before are a bit stressful but the day of no problem! He seems to like the teachers, the classroom and the building. Only downer, seems the first thing they did involved writing - I think it bummed him out to not lead with his strength - and seems like he avoided doing it because he didn't think it would be good or he needed help spelling. OTOH its good because this is where he is and this was obviously some form of assessment, but OTOH, i suspect he knows he could do better and didn't show that.

For me, seeing the other kids and DS interactions with them was awesome - these are his peeps -as someone said elsewhere today! i know they won't all be friends and he will still have issues but 1 week in, the vibe is so night and day from pre-k its very heartening. Of course, might feel a bit different when i see what they have him reading. I really hope they meet him where he is - today that hope still lives!!

DeHe

Just a vent: we had open house at my DD5's K last night and the only books they have out are "baby books" (big words, few words per page). So far this year they are doing activities like counting to 3 and letters. I guess I knew this would happen, but come on, things that she was doing at one are being done at five? The teacher does try to use my DD5 (has her come up and help with things, but even those things are way too simple for her) and said she asks her harder questions, but who knows what she considers hard. So far my DD5 is happy, and her behavior has been great, and has made a new friend, but they have squeezed crafts, recess, and a relaxed snack time out of their 2.5 hr day and there is a huge class that will be primarily doing academics so we will see if she continues to love it. I think they have been assessing them here and there so maybe things will start to shift by the end of this month but the assessment is even low (letter sounds, identifying letters and other things that even my three year old would find too easy). I wish we had gifted K options somewhere...

These are all things to celebrate and enjoy! Yippee! 2.5 hours is a great amont of time to have school. Now that your daughter is at school, you have more of an opportunity to go and observe a 1st and 2nd grade class. Go watch and see what next year might look like. I predict that she is academically about 3rd grade. Please go and observe and prove me wrong. That will give you enough of an understanding to communicate with the classroom teacher. Which you need to do because...
This usually leads to teachers heaving a sigh of relief and stopping the assesment at the low level because the belief that real kids who have real academic needs at a much higher level just isn't out there. Now - while her behavior is good, is the time to act. First by observing the other grade rooms, and then by setting up a sit down meeting with the kindy teacher and very politely and very insistantly find out if the materials exist to assess your child up to the 4th grade level if needed.

Schools don't really care about IQ and achievement tests because they don't line up 1-1 with the kind of outcomes they are used to caring about - their own assesments and behavior goals.

Some school have a learning specialist who has all the grade materials availible to her for testing, some schools give each teacher the whole kit, some schools the teachers borrow the materials from a teacher of older kids.

One would think that one could show the achievement testing and tell the teacher - hey, get the ball rolling, get the kit for older grades ready when you sit down and don't make my kid go through the whole thing. But that almost never works. Aim for the more achievable goal of finding out how things are done at the school and getting the teacher to commit to going to the next step if your daugher ceiling out on the material on hand.


I promise that those other kids are normal, but it's instructive to wonder - if this is how I feel about those other kids, what must my daughter be thinking? My son was able to articulate that he felt frustration and despair. I didn't (really) think that 5 year olds could possibly feel those things so things had to get a lot worse before they got better at my house. I can be stubborn!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

ds came home with homework yesterday that I wish my dd7 had come home with . I was excited to finally see some differentiation happening for him. His homework was a math worksheet... double digit adding and subtracting with carrying and borrowing! This is a good sign.

MAP testing is this week for him. He tested very strong in the spring against the then kindergarteners (91st percentile math and 79th percentile reading). I am hoping to convince the principal we need the GERT teacher's assistance even though gifted services don't begin until 2nd grade.

Good luck on the MAP testing. Be sure he knows what all the common math symbols look like so he can show all he knows. And let him know that the longer the test goes on, that means the better he is doing so 'finishing last' is the goal.

I'm hoping the results get him all the accomidations he needs!
Grinity

that is awesome for your son, but I am envious since my DD5 came home with worksheets that involve counting to three and circling letters A one week and B the next and she is able to do fractions, starting to multiply, and can read and write at a high level with good handwriting. On top of all that, she is behaving like an angel in class so she is really suprising us all. Maybe it is bad that she is being so good. The teachers have their hands full with some behavior problems and learning disabilities in the class that is twice the size it was last year so do you think they will worry about the child who is helping out and behaving and well beyond the end of year goals? She can be ignored :-( They did have her read for the class, but they picked a super simple book. I am trying to remain positive and not hound them. They met with our tester, saw test results that included achievement above the 99th in both math and reading, but here she is tracing the number three and counting. They keep saying they will start to differentiate them, but so far, I don't see it.

my DS hasn't come home with any homework, which is funny in that the open houses for this gifted school they made such a big deal about if you don't want your kid doing homework don't come here because we give a lot of it.

I can't tell what is going on in the classroom from DS is description - he doesn't seem unhappy - and is exhausted which surprised me because the day is the same length as pre-k but i think he is required to sit sill longer and pay attention.

The teacher has been very responsive to emails about pick up and snack and all the other new things to sort out - but I am hesitating about the academic side of things.

There is nothing wrong - but I have a feeling - and I have no idea what it is based on. It might just be the unknown. Nothing has come home at all. And what he shares is so piecemeal.

This is a gifted school - but I don't know the other parents or other kids yet - I have no idea how rare he is - or if the teachers have even noticed what he can do. We did receive an email about how responsible he is with the class books and he got a sticker for helping his seat mate with math

Am I being crazy? I am trying very hard to be patient (which is what he told me yesterday he was doing!!!)

DeHe

Yea I was very worried about behavior as well. But he has been super good. I even warned his teacher that I thought if he wasn't engaged he would act out. Who stole my baby and left me with this big boy?!?!?!

Ds is only about +1 in reading (guided reading level "e") but he loves books like Fly Guy which is more like "j". oh well.In Math he should be +2 but they won't accelerate in our district (after many promises of acceleration for him).

He still does the centers they have. He has told me he has to practice writing letters and numbers in one of those centers. He has an independent reading center (wonder what the kids who barely know their letters do in this one) ; there is a listening center; and a read with teacher center (this is from what he tells me)

I was so shocked. She has been just wonderful in class and the OT said that six other kids in the class seemed problematic but there is NOTHING at all of note for my DD and in fact, that she is just lovely to have in class. When she comes home, she is wild though. Her energy is just exploding everywhere. She isn't naughty / defiant, just cannot stop moving, talking, and playing in really intense ways which is hard on me. She isn't remotely tired, but then again it is only two and a half hours. I don't think it is enough for her now... I am worrying I made a mistake pulling her out of the six hour a day Montessori.

Franieanddejsmom, does he seem happy? My DD does come home happy but does say things are much too easy and grumbles a little bit. She loves a marble game they have there, and "gym" and recess ;-) She made a new friend who is very lively and whose brother turned out to be highly gifted so that motivates her to go to school.

I keep hoping they will give her appropriate level work soon. They kept talking about helping them grown horizontally, not upwards...hmmmm...not sure that sounds right. That is fine if they actually broaden her at her actual level and not shoot low. The teacher did say that she notices my DD5 thinks differently and she has shown things that got her teacher's notice on her own, but I just don't think the teacher quite gets what my DD's abilities are even with testing in front of her. Its frustrating and I don't want to be too annoying...

How did things go with your older child?

Wow you guys get gym and recess in the 2 1/2 hour day? Ds gets recess on Fridays only. I wish we had all day kinder, but kinder isn't required in Illinois so no go. Gifted identification and services are not required here either (and of course since our state is in such a financial crap hole we get no funding either).

He seems pretty happy. His teacher has been great giving him different work. He has mentioned that the amount of writing is a lot . Which I think he may be right on. I will talk to his teacher and see if we can back off just a bit. He seems to be doing more writing then dd7 and he doesn't have the stamina for all of it yet.

I should have been more clear: SOME days they get recess, not always. They go to gym once a week, but an OT comes in their class and does exercises with the entire class so they do get some physical outlets.

You are getting writing? They are having her circle letters and asking if she knows the letters of her name even after meeting with the psychologist who said she was gifted and the teacher nodded and said she is trying to differentiate. I actually feel for the teacher. She seems nice but overwhelmed with a huge class with some kids who are really quite wild. I am sure getting hard work for the gifted kid isn't the most pressing concern day to day.

Are there other kids who your son is working with who are at a similar level? There is a little boy in her class who is advanced, probably gifted, but very shy, and I am hoping they can give them harder work together.

Hey! Great news. 2.5 hour school day is 'expensive' for her, but she is holding it together.
Send an email to the teacher asking when you can expect to see worksheets that are more at her level. Or gather some up and bring them in to school and ask the teacher to keep them in a folder for DD and give them out during worksheet time.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

The writing in class is tracing letters and numbers. The writing at home is the enrichment. The assignment to the class may be to name 5 kids in the class, his work is to write their names. One math assignment was to count the steps from your door to the sidewalk. He counted that plus the steps to the bus stop and then wrote a word problem to include the difference. Staring this past Monday, his math assignments are completely different.

There is a girl in his class who is most likely gifted. She excels in reading and ds in math (although both kids are above grade level in their 'weaker' areas) lol. The teacher is differentiating for both but in somewhat different ways.

That's great that they are doing something. It is certainly a start.

I am told they will eventually do something with my DD5, but I think they just don't get her yet. Her writing is good, and by that I mean she understands capitalization, punctuation, paragraphs, verbs, nouns, alliteration, and all sorts of writing related things and has a frightening vocabulary and a wild imagination, her handwriting is even neat yet so far she is just tracing letters. They had the achievement testing / IQ right in front of them, but it is as though it didn't really register what it meant in terms of what is appropriate level work.

This is another topic, but do you think a child can be "hothoused" into performing years ahead. There is a little boy in the class who is similar (according to his mom, I haven't seen him do anything on my own) but when I spoke with his dad at a birthday party, he seemed to discount the idea that his child was gifted and attributed his being so advanced to his wife working very hard with him since day one. He is reading at least at a second grade level, but again, I have never heard him read or know what his comprehension is like, can do multiplication, tell time, and that sort of thing. He is very very shy and withdrawn, actually doesn't seem to want to mingle with other children. I am guessing my DD5 will eventually be paired with him, and although ultimately it doesn't matter, it just got me wondering how far a parent could push a child ahead. I think the boy must be gifted to some extent, but my perspective is based on a very obstinate child of my own who doesn't like to be taught or drilled in any way so I can't imagine being able to accomplish much beyond what was in her close reach since she likes to do her own thing. Maybe he is a very bright child who likes to please and she was able to push him ahead, but could any mom who worked her child hard be able to have her child years ahead in school with a child of "average" intellect? I have my opinions, but I was curious what others thought. TIA

conferences are tomorrow.. so much to ask in my 15 minutes. I don't even know where to begin. We do get fall MAP results so maybe I'll start there.

has anyone received NWEA MAp results yet? Just curious as to where everyone is at

Well we are now months into kindergarten, and some things are good and some are frustrating. My DD5 is not having any obvious behavior or sensory issues at school. In fact, she looks so "normal" they probably think I am nuts for mentioning sensory issues. She has good friends and is well liked. She showed them she was beyond their end of year academic and fine motor goals the first week. Her social skills also are great. The only things she is suppose to work on this year are related to focus and organization, as in coloring neatly (really) and not making careless mistakes on simple worksheets. Since I told her to check her work, I don't see careless mistakes.

They have seen IQ and achievement testing that places her very high, and have even mentioned noticing that she thinks differently and is highly creative, but little is done. She is in a reading group, their top one, but they are reading things like, "The cat sat on the log" REALLY. She read that sort of thing at 2. I don't want to be a thorne in anyone's side here, but why can't they move closer to the right level? Math is also painfully below her level as well. There is another boy who is similar to her in the class, yet they are doing nothing special with them...

At this point, I just afterschool her a little bit when she comes home, but wish the public school could do something besides babysit her and teach her to put her backpack away. We cannot do private school right now. In our state, there are no mandates for gifted education so they have no obligation to do anything more. In our town, many many parents think their children are gifted and many push for their gifted programming which starts in second grade, so they tend to be skeptical about incoming children whose parents think are so advanced. They met with the psychologist who did her testing and said that she was different and was not going to "level off" but they seem very closed off to outside opinions.

Her class is huge and has some kids with serious behavior problems, so a child who writes well, is well behaved, and far ahead is easy to just let coast... sadly, they do few crafts and rarely have recess. It is a 2.5 hour day and much of it is drilling kids on the basics of letters, numbers, etc.

At this point, I am trying to focus on what is working and not worry too much about what isn't working.
There is a glimmer of hope that they will provide more next year since the gifted teacher visits first grade.

TwinkleToes, for half day kindergarten it is really hard to expect much. Ds' teacher added up her instruction time, and found that if all goes well, she has 90 minutes of instruction daily. They are also on a different daily schedule from the rest of the school, so sending a child to another room for math is a major scheduling problem. DS has a reading group with 4 kids all about the same reading level, and DS now has a computer program he can log into during math -- but the 10 minutes dedicated to a math activity is about how long it takes DS to get to the website, put in his batty password and log back out. Our goal consistently with half day has been to have things set up by the time he hits first grade. {DS now gets to go back to school in the afternoon a few days a week to meet a class in computer lab to work on this program, but mostly he's spending all his screen time on it at home.}

TT
I'm so sorry to hear its so frustrating but glad there are some positives. DS is in a fantastic gifted school, which does all sorts of extras and moves at a rapid clip, and yet, I see the same things you do - DS is in a reading group with the top readers - but they are doing picture books. I posted elsewhere about how they want the kids to take ownership of their reading levels etc - DS was tested at M and he only has i in his box - he knows its too easy -yet in a gifted school, with a fantastic library, with recognition for what he can do, he still has i in his box!!!

DS goes all day - so they do reading, writing, math, science and I am pretty pleased at the pace and the topics and their approach to things - but even here there is no effort made to differentiate beyond a certain point. So on some level, I am fighting the good fight and in some ways I feel like I need to give up, not antagonize the teacher and continue to have fascinating conversations at home about RNA, DNA and all his other interests. Just yesterday he talked about being "engulfed" by the blanket as he pretended to be a ghost! There is no possibility of a skip here - made worse by the fact that his writing is regular level not where the want gifteds - so if they are teaching to color in the lines - he is absolutely not learning it!!! LOL

DS is not overtly complaining - but it is a long day - and he is showing more preference for being at home. So maybe there is some positive in that, if it is a waste of her time, its at least a short waste????!!!

DeHe

DeHe, it sounds as though there are some good things alongside the frustrating ones this year for you. It is great that they have math and science in their curriculum, but I can see how you would be frustrated with the lack of differentiation beyond a certain point.

Things are better at our end. I was told by a third party that they plan on doing some kind of pull out for her next year and to have her in the gifted program a year early. No one spoke directly with me about this with me. My daughter also read something at an all school assembly and no one told me in advance. They are trying to differentiate, but they don't go far enough. She is doing multiplication, fractions, reading very fluently at a very high level, etc. and they are doing number recognition and letter sounds. I think we have a good teacher who is doing the best she can with a huge class. I afterschool for about 15-20 minutes a day and she gets more in one day at home than weeks at school so that is my answer for now. Now I need to talk to the school to get the details about what they want to do with her next year. I am actually one of the few moms who doesn't want her moved up. She is small, looks babyish and young and I wish there was a way for her to be around kids her own age at the same level or to be with kids her age as her base and then work at academic levels with older kids...maybe that is what they have planned. I guess it is time to make some calls.

Hi!

We have MAP testing again this week. I am interested to see where ds comes out in math. He is also doing multiplication, division, adding subtracting fractions. We are just finishing up with singapore 2a and kumon multiplication. Onto the next set of books for us. I am thinking he might have some fun with roman numerals.
As far as reading, we are not as advanced as many of you are. Ds was not an early reader. He is reading at a mid first grade level.

We have decided to go ahead with testing. He will be taking the wisc and wiat on the 22nd. He turned 6 on November 30, so good timing for us.

I wish he was in an all day kindergarten. I wish they did more as far as differentiation. EVERYTHING we were promised over the summer and early fall has not come through. When we have the test results, I will be making an appointment to include the principal, school GATE teacher, the district GATE coordinator and his teacher (anyone else I should ask to the party?).

I don't know if I want him moved to first grade at this pint or not. I also don't think its even an option. I do want to get him some sort of enrichment or joining the first, second or even third grade for math. I wouldn't mind if they brought in someone to work in his classroom with him to enrich. Ughhh so frustrating

TT
glad to hear you are a bit more optimistic - and especially glad to hear they are thinking of doing more, if not this year at least for next. We finally had our conference with the teacher - and DH expected me to go all, he needs this, you need to being doing that - and I didn't (massive restraint on my part) but the teacher actually spent 45 minutes selling us on what she is doing and how bright she thinks he is. So its weird, the school is awesome and the creativity that they use is awesome. She is a fabulous teacher for gifted kids as well. I think what I am still frustrated with is that fact that its seems like school is all about his weaknesses and not his strengths. But with the time passing, she is providing more, she acknowledged that he is beyond where she assessed his reading and that she needs to get him more books, he has books at that level now, last month he didn't. But in math he has no problems with anything they do and could easily do more, faster and deeper, but he isnt spontaneously doing it. So he could do more even with the fast pace they are setting.

Maybe the more of an outlier they are, the longer it takes the powers to be to realize they need more, I don't know, it sounds so weird. I understand the feelings about moving up - for DS - he LOVES older kids and so would be very comfortable with a skip - but his writing and social skills are not up to it - I agree if he could do work with them sometimes, or get the work in his classroom it would be so much better. So I think I am in a better place about what he is doing - not perfect but what is - but funnily my bigger concern is that she might be a problem for doing a DYS app after he turns 6!!

DeHe

This has always been a huge pet peeve of mind. I remember at my DD's first K fall conference, the teacher said DD really needed to practice always starting sentences with a capital letter and always ending sentences with appropriate punctuation. Incredulous, I asked whether that was a kindergarten skill and all I got was, "Oh, no, we don't really teach that until first and second grade!" So then why are you complaining that my DD doesn't do it consistently? I asked a different teacher about how conferences always seem so negative even when your child is way ahead of the curriculum and impeccably behaved and she said teachers always like to give children goals to work towards. Unfortunately, most teachers I've come across phrase these things as complaints rather than goals. And then they tend to play down your child's strengths as "normal" even when they are far from it. But they think they're being helpful!

DEHE,twinkle toes

after reading thru these discussions,I feel we are so fortunate in our district,after approaching school last year (before joining K )school itself suggested DD should go through testing and afterwards they were strongly advised us to skip K

One thing DD had very favorable compared to others in this forum is DD had very good handwriting and we showed all her work and that helped immensely (in retrospect). I am not telling good writing is must,but I feel it is very easy to convince anybody, IMO

grade skip worked well for DD. end of 1st grade her reading level was Q (1st term level was M)and advanced in math,art,music as well

I'm glad it worked out for you, Yannam. For some kids, a skip seems to be just the right move. It probably also helped if you felt that acceleration was a good fit and brought in work samples. My doubt coupled with DD's intensity probably made them question her ability to "behave" in a higher grade and while I showed them testing, I strongly sensed they wanted to "see for themselves" what she could do...

My DD's handwriting and fine motor skills are also very strong, but we were all concerned she wasn't going to be emotionally mature enough to move on, but she actually surprised everyone by being very self controlled, polite, confident, and on task. I have to admit, on some level, I would not want to see her all day in classes with many seven year olds (there is a lot of red shirting in our community so K students are often 6 and first 7 and my DD5 turned five a few months before K), not because she couldn't do the academic work, but for fears of her being too young in some ways to be in the right place. I know so many on here use the Iowa Accelaration Scale (I should check it out) and believe acceleration is the way to go, but I have to admit I have conflicting feelings. The curriculum is far too easy for many grades ahead, (like many on here she had age equivalencies of close to 8 or 9 before she turned 5)but I keep hoping they can accomodate her in the classroom. Maybe I am naive since they were unable to give her the right level work this year. I'm trying to stress less and just be happy that she is a very happy child, popular, and adjusting well.

I have to say I feel very lucky to have gotten Connor into the school he is in. They were very open to talking about his abilities ahead of the year (and even had before school conferences with each child's parents to get a fell for just that). His teacher did her best to differentiate within the classroom for the first two months but then went to the Director on her own and advocated for DS without any push from us. She just called me one night and said "Here, this is what we're thinking..."

He has now been going to 2nd grade for reading for the last month or more and just last week started moving up to 2nd for math as well. He goes back to his K classroom for phys ed, art, music, science, social studies, and Chinese.

I was pretty nervous about the idea at first since DS was having s few behavioral/social/sensory/attention issues in kindergarten still. So far it has been WONDERFUL! DS loves his new classes and comes home telling me all about what they learned (even though it is sometimes things that he 'knows' conceptually but was never taught so he didn't know the formal words or rules behind it) He also seems to be having LESS issues socially and behaviorally now. My thought now is that perhaps when he was misbehaving or having social difficulties in kindergarten it may have been due to him trying to "fit in" with the kids around him. I think he doesn't really understand their way of thinking/behaving and so he tries to imitate what he thinks he sees them doing. Since its not natural to him it comes off looking a little 'weird'... He seems to have less of these issues now (hopefully it stays that way) and I'm hoping that moving up for part of the day is just giving him a chance to be around kids that feel a little more familiar to him. Twinkle Toes- keep in mind that her emotional maturity may be pretty flexible depending on who she is surrounded by.

now my DD5 told me she has a reading buddy from first grade and my daughter is basically "tutoring" the older child in reading low level books. Again, I am trying to just take a deep breath and realize this is just kindergarten and to let things ride even though my daughter never has anything near her appropriate level in any area. Her handwriting is improving so at least we have had that gain this year.

Gosh TT. .... If they are going to pull down a first grader to buddy with, couldn't they at least choose on who is a peer? Or did they try and that's the best? I love you intention to not make things worse with worry and enjoy the time you have together but I think you can do this while continuing to function in the roll of feedback giver.

I see it as a really good sign that they are willing to pair her across grade levels. They are probably already thinking that they need to tweak and just need a little validation to take action.

This year is going well that's great.

Love and more love
Grinity

hello all *waves* Aiden starts our equivalent of K on 18th January, so thought I'd pop in for some sharing and support. He is most hopeful of being given "real" maths, more challenging books to read, and perhaps some spelling homework too. lol I think he is aiming a bit high, esp since the teacher we were most looking forward to is leaving and the class will now be 2 smaller classes (11 kids per class) with new teachers and a teacher's aide per class.

how is everyone else finding K so far?

this was mentioned to us as well, although not first grade, basically pairing DS with a low level reading kid. Not really thrilled either. DS mentioned string theory to the kids at school older gifted kids and still got, the blank stares, a teensy reminder of the horrible situation in pre-k till I saw the DS didnt mind because they all just moved onto something else. So we are still doing a lot of learning at home and he is doing all the stuff we havent done at school - sort of backfilling. Maybe we should just make the new mantra for K - all about the handwriting!!!

DeHe

ha ha DeHe

Update: I just found out her reading buddy is a 4th grader, not a first grader, and my daughter apparently helps the older child with reading when it was suppose to be the other way around...

Gulp - wasn't expecting that!

same here with the 4th grader - but its not remedial!!!! That is jsut unacceptable - she at least should have a buddy who she can really talk to about books. I tried to get DS to talk to his buddy about the books they are likely both reading but he won't do it - he turning out to be quite conformist in terms of speaking up and volunteering. The only thing he ever asked for was permission to use the library in class during center time - it was the begining of the year, i thought it was awesome he advocated - but nothing since

Now you have the makings of a 3+ grade skip!

Think Judo - use your opponent's movements against them!

"Why, miss TwinkleToes, we cannot advance your DS - she will not make any friends in the 4th grade! She will be socially isolated! And then the gaps in her learning!"

Do you know it's supposed to be the other way around?

I've been having good (but slow) luck with writing exceeding polite emails asking for clarification. My basic format is:

"Dear Mrs Kindergarten Teacher,

DD has been describing the reading buddy program to me over the last few weeks. She reports that [acknowledge that not all I hear from school is accurately reported] she's working with a 4th grader on reading. She has expressed frustration [or other emotion/effect] to me over the arrangement because she is helping this other child with reading more than the other way around. Can you clarify for me the goals of this program? [Maybe it really is to have the kindergarteners help the 4th graders.] DD has been disappointed that she cannot have a detailed discussion of the reading [or other complaint] as a result of the mis-matched nature of this pairing.

Thanks,

{my first name}"

Sometimes I throw in a statement about how I'm framing the situation positively for my child at home: "We've had a few conversations about DD's talents {e.g. reading} and things she must struggle to learn {riding a bike/handwriting/playing the flugelhorn}, to help view other children's struggles and talents more broadly."

I'm finding that emails like the above don't get a response for 2-3 days because the teacher is now scrambling to figure out what's happening. Then I get a response, and either the problem is fixed or we have an established tone of mutual respect from which to work on the problem together.

FWIW, our kindergarteners are paired with 4th grade buddies. They come in and work with the kids here and there, but mostly on non-academic things. The pairings were done nearly at random. If the same is that case in your situation - kids paired with 4th graders at random, it might have been a fluke that they paired a child with a reading disability with yours.

And yeah, add us to the pile of people getting handwriting and little else from kindergarten.

I asked ds yesterday about school. Was it easy or hard or just right. His response "momma, what we do at home is kinda hard but not really. School is just for fun. Its soooooo easy".

His handwriting is ok but can always use improvement. I guess we can be added to that group as well!


Tomorrow is our big day. Ds is being tested with the WISC and WIAT. We have school conferences on January 12. I should have preliminary results tomorrow and will reschedule the conference if I feel we need to add the principal and gifted teacher/ district gifted coordinator into the mix. Services don't start until second grade here ughh. We are looking at going to private schools (my mom actually suggested we go this route and will help pay, I hope).

That's exactly what it is in our school, except it much more occasional than that.

My breaking point in complaining is to look at how much of the instruction is being done through this way. My DS is in half day kindergarten. His teacher reports that when you take specials and recess and other extras, she has a total of 90 minutes of instruction per day, or just 7.5 hours a week. If something like this is going on for 30 minutes once a week and my child is frustrated with the arrangement, then that's approaching 10% of instructional time not serving its intended purpose. That's beyond my break point and I'll bring it up with the teacher as a point of discussion.

Our 1/2 day does not have specials and we do not have recess. SO, theoretically, ds has 2 plus hours of instruction a day

Geofizz, that seems a very reasonable way to go. I seem to be erroring on the side of just letting things slide for this year. I don't expect my DD will learn anything at school in kindergarten and so do a very small amount of afterschooling to keep her mind engaged. Everything is so far below her level in there and although they say they are trying to differentiate, they shoot far too low and I am just accepting that this K year is a year for her to get used to this school, make friends, learn to tie her shoes and improve her writing and spelling (mostly at home). They are having her start in some sort of pull out next year even though it typically doesn't happen until second grade. Again, I think I am one of the few parents on here who isn't pushing for a skip. My DD5 is still 5 in some ways and I don't want to rush her through elementary school even though she is moving so fast academically...anyone else feel that way?

That's about exactly been our approach as well.

My daughter is very young for grade, so while we've pushed for subject acceleration, we haven't pushed more anything more. I'm thankful, particularly since we're now facing consequences of either a poor fit to her early instruction or a mild LD.

My DS missed the cutoff for kindergarten by 7 weeks, so he turned 6 in November. Despite that, he's in the middle of the age range for his class (9th oldest in a class of 20). Hello rampant red shirting. The consequence is that a skip would put him significantly younger than his classmates.

However, being a full 6 with a solid grasp on his own behavior, that process of getting used to school was complete in October, and early friendships have evaporated. He now appears to be taking the "put my head down and endure" approach to school and his peers. When we started the school year, I saw no way that it would be appropriate to put him in the proper classroom for math (2nd grade) both on maturity, reading, and writing expectations. However, now we're looking at it and thinking it would work out ok. So we're in the process of trying to tease out where the best middle ground might be for him. He craves stimulation at school. Afterschooling is not a great option for us -- it doesn't help with the fact that he wants stimulation at school, and I simply don't have the spare minutes in the day to do it. The reading instruction is differentiated in the level books he's reading, but not in pace. He is sitting with the identical 4 books for 20 minutes a day, every day. One book gets cycled from the pile each week. That's a pace that's appropriate for an emergent reader. Not for a kid who just read me 3 chapters of a DRA 30 book.

DH and I are taking the 2 week winter break to formulate our priorities. I need to call the intervention coordinator on behalf of my daughter on the first day back to school, and I will be opening the discussion on getting DS placed and taught appropriately. We still have some sort of mysterious speech/auditory problems (which is why we have the academic testing we have) that leads me to be somewhat cautious in pushing him ahead. At the moment, I want him to learn math from a human with academic peers -- that must get fixed -- and to have access to a more quickly varying pile of books to read in class. The second should be easy to fix (ha!), the second may require major changes as a result of half-day kindergarten.

Geofizz... I wish you all the luck to move foreward with subject acceleration. I 'thought" i had it all worked out last spring for ds and reenforced right before school started. We even switched ds from morning kinder to afternoon so he could join the second graders for math. It was quite a blow for us when the district asistant super of math nixed the plan.
We just finished with testing of ds. I should have the WIAT results in about a week. At that time , I may just go higher to the super and involve the asst super of gifted.

Ds just finished singapore 2a and we will start 2b after winter break. His reading is not quite as advanced as his math skills. His teacher says he is reading at a guided reading level f. he easily reads and comprehends 'h' level books at home.

What reason is the district super giving for reversing the 2nd grade placement and afternoon kinder? I'm concerned there's some major $$ implication... That's exactly the solution that I think DS need educationally. Emotionally, it will be marked by many transitions, which makes me tread lightly.

S2b has been pretty trivial after 2a. DS can now do it independently with his improved reading and writing skills. He's picked through about half the pages in about a month. I might just bring out 3a and start pairing it with Khan Academy videos (see that 3a has lesson-by-lesson videos?). First we need to free ourselves from STMath, which is taking up time at home, and not adding much. Either that, or I keep along as we've been, letting him do whatever he pleases. I prefer it when he chooses reading, Chess, or Legos over STMath or Singapore, to be honest...

Our son is attending kindergarten in a small neighborhood school that struggles to meet accountability targets. However, we live in a university town, so resources for the gifted are plentiful and other schools in the district are much more typical high achieving suburban schools.

Our school has been wonderful about designing a program that comes pretty close to meeting our son's needs. He goes to first grade for language arts daily, and goes twice a week to a first grade gifted pullout that rotates between science and social studies. He also works with the gifted specialist for math instruction once a week, and gets specialized assignments the other four days that the assistant supervises in the classroom.

According to friends of ours who teach at other elementary schools in the district, this level of accommodation would never be allowed at their school. There is a policy that no child gets identified as gifted until first grade, and that subject acceleration doesn't happen ever.

So, my personal advice from my personal experience is to ask the school how they can work with your kid, don't necessarily go in with an expectation that they will do a specific thing for him or her, but don't back down if they are saying there is nothing to be done. The program they have devised for our son does not meet his needs perfectly, but it is good enough for him right now. No professional wants you to come in and tell them how to do their job, but most professionals do want you to provide them with the data and background information necessary to do their job well.

The district guy doesn't believe in math acceleration because he says there will be gaps. Ds is in the afternoon kinder now. I didnt want to switch him back to the mornings after school started. Also, there are less kids in the afternoon class and there is one other girl that is probably gifted but not nearly anywhere close to ds in math. She is ahead of him in reading.

I did look through the 2b and it did seem easier then 2a. I figure we will ski through many chapters and just do the end tests. I think we will be ready for 3a by the beginning of march. He really has no interest in anything but numbers. I have looked at hands on equations and found an online website that is very similiar that we have played with.

Its legal to just. Give the 5 hardest questions on each end test if the problems are similar enough. We also found it was useful to talk through some of the problems to see what methods he is using.

Smiles
Grinity

We have officially completed singapore 2a! We completed it in 3 months. ds scored 100% on the end test. We will start 2b next week. Anyone else at this point? Where are you going next? I think after 2b we need to find something else as I don't want him to be too far ahead. I was thinking of Hands On Equations as he thinks it fun but again, its going to pull him even farther ahead of his classmates.

I would let him plow ahead. I don't believe in limiting a fast learner to try to make him like the slower kids-- I think it can do much more harm than good.

Where we went, or continued to go, at the end of second grade math:

Singapore Math 3A and up, plus Challenging Word Problems / Intensive Practice
Mathematics Enhancement Programme
Sunshine Math
Ed Zaccaro's Primary Grade Challenge Math
Raymond Smullyan
Building Thinking Skills
IXL (rarely used now if ever, but excellent for fun practice; can be subscribed to on the cheap through the Homeschool Buyers Co-op)
ALEKS (just signed up-- there's a sale on until the end of 2011)

... plus assorted games.

There is always the AMC 8 and 10 to shoot for rather than worry about age peers.

http://amc.maa.org/amc8/2011/stats/2011-amc8stats.shtml

{I'm at the same stage of winging it with a kid throwing us for a similar loop.}

This is wild. It looks like our kids are within days of each other in age, and at nearly identical stages in math.

Are you working with him on the math, or is he working through it on his own? If he's getting up at 4:20 am to sneak an hour of math book time, then I'd keep at what he's already drawn towards, maybe making some more logic-type problems available. If you guys are bringing it out together, or that he needs some direction with it, then I might change direction. I think that lucounu is probably right that you can't limit his learning, but you could shift his focus to other skills that he will need to develop to reach his full potential in mathematics.

We don't do any focused instruction for DS -- we simply don't have time. I kinda wish I could at this point, but it's not in the cards for a child with a 7pm bedtime. DS will work on the math book on his own, occasionally asking for help here and there. We have brought out Set, Mastermind, Chess, Checkers, Q-bitz, Qwirkle, Izzi and other similar logic-type games to work on these logic skills. He'll need them soon enough, and we have fun doing it.

If you are sitting down with him on a regular basis, can you push the reading more? It sounds like his reading is lagging relative to the sky-high math. Reading word problems is difficult if you have a limited reading vocabulary. When DS passed through the early 2nd grade level mark in reading level, all of a sudden he could do the word problems and follow the examples in his Singapore book to progress independently.

Geofizz, I just responded to your pm!

He sits down to do his homework when dd8 does her homework. He is able to read the word problems by himself. I actually think this has helped improve his reading. The only help I give him is explaining something new. I have been trying to build his confidence as well. He always asks "is this right momma?". We also worked through the word problem book, at first together, to assist his reading.

As for games, he loves checkers and connect four for logic type games. His ultimate favorite board game is monopoly (go figure it involves money and numbers)

That reminds me geofizz that Set is a wonderful game. Buy the boardgame, cards or solve the daily puzzle on the New York Times' website. There are lots of other mathy card games. One of my girls' favourites is numero. Kids typically start playing at grade 2 (about 6-7 ish) but the interschool numero competition my eldest entered was targeted at year 7s (about 12 ish). There are lots of fun math games to be had with a normal set of cards - have you played 'make 10' (fabulous for number partners) or perhaps 'sideways snap'?

jojo

And we enter the second half of the year! How is it going???

We have a meeting this afternoon with the principal, the gifted teacher and his current teacher. We will be reviewing his WISC and WIAT results as well as MAP tests. I hopefully will come out of the meeting with a plan for the remainder of this year and the start of a plan for next year. His reading took a huge jump over the last month. He went from guided reading level 'f' at the beginning of the month to level 'h'. At home, he is easily reading level 'k' and 'l' books with no problem. Perhaps we need another jump. He still isn't picking up a book just to read. I think I may have to look at the library for some interest books.. the solar system or maps. I think maybe a bit about the human body too as he has been asking a lot of questions of late about my rather large scar and my blood sugars.

Good luck with the meeting today!

DS's intervention meeting is next week. I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with his kindergarten teacher. The teacher will be at the intervention meeting, of course, so I'm trying to figure out ways to compel discussion of how little she's doing for him. He's disaffected about school -- no wonder, he's just counting every day for math, and reading the exact same set of books every day during reading. Meanwhile, the "enrichment" computer program they gave him to replace his math time has school has been exhausted. Not because he's doing it at school (he's used it once ... ever ... in kindergarten), but because he's completed it at home. Comparing to the common core, this took him 2/3 of the way through 3rd grade math standards.

I fear what will happen when they put him in the next level up of this program. Will he be more out of sync with the grade levels? At some point, you have to slot him back into the classroom.

Getting him into a classroom now (2nd grade seems like the right level) means having to move him to afternoon kindergarten. It would mean a lot of transitions, including a different kindergarten teacher. Our school, however, is loathe to make that kind of change for fear of social implications and the tidal wave effect of parents beating down the door asking for the same.

I doubt there will be a tidal wave of parents wanting their kids to do grade 2 math. More likely, a tidal wave of parents to tell you you're crazy.

The teacher move-with-2nd-grade-math-placement seems good, if he'd be up for a change (sounds like he would). Can you ask that they test him into it?

DeeDee

He already has, and the scores are recorded on his report card. Is that sufficient? It gives him more instructional time than other kindergarteners.

Shiela, I'm looking forward to hearing how yur meeting went.

I'm pretty new to the forums here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. DS6 is in kindy at a STEM charter school. He is a Nov birthday and we chose to go to the STEM school even though it doesn't have a real gifted 'program' and doesn't have an early entry option. We made the decision hoping that they would be more able to offer differentiation and hopefully would be more open to the available research on gifted education.

So far, we have been quite pleased. His teacher was very receptive to listening about his differences before the school year started and made extraordinary efforts to differentiate for him in her classroom. When it became obvious to her that she could not differentiate enough within her class she talked to the director of the school and set up a dual subject acceleration in both Math and Reading to 2nd grade. He enjoys the skip and is quite confident around the 2nd grade kids despite being 2 years younger. He still does his other subjects in kindy and has good friends in both grades. His favorite class in Chinese.

Recently (over the last few days) he has been telling us that next year he wants to skip 1st grade and go to 2nd while skipping to 3rd or 4th for Math and Reading. For now we're just going to keep going and see how things work out. We definitely feel like we made the right decision for the little guy.

Well..... I think it was a lot of talk and will be very little action again. Time will tell. They are not going to subject accelerate him or grade skip him.. They are going to create a math group of 2 with another girl who is advanced but no where near him in math. They will be getting enrichment work from the gifted teacher. She will giving them logic and thinking skills practice. They will be monitoring through the MAP test to see if he continues to grow. My concern is even though he showed growth in math of 6 points, he did not grow as much as the norm group did and dropped in percentile. We talked about his reading and how it is starting to jump. We talked about what he is reading at home vs what he is at school. She is going to test him again in 2 weeks to see where he is at.

Not what I wanted or what I think EJ needs at this point. Very frustrating.

This may be a good thing. I would push for number puzzles as well to introduce number theory ideas.

The logic skills are the basis for success in higher math. Most math is not arithmetic but manipulation of formal systems of rules. I'd see what kind of enrichment you can push for within this framework.

I agree in that this is not all bad. Yes, it's very disappointing that he's not placed at an appropriate level to learn core skills, but these are very important. More importantly, this gives him direct and regular access to the gifted teacher. That teacher can then become an ally who can see him abilities up close. That can help for future placements.

Does anyone else have a walking talking encyclopedia?

Right now, EJ is very into sea creatures. He has even gone on the web and looked up information on his own. He can pretty much tell you about anything living in the oceans. It is really shocking how much he knows.

I'm glad there are others. Sometimes it's humbling. DS4 was our tour guide recently for an afternoon as we happened onto a subject he knows much better than us, and I found myself feeling a little ill, this feeling of seriousness, a weight. It should be cute but it doesn't feel cute.

Polly