Gifted Issues Discussion homepage
Posted By: cammom Math curriculum - 09/02/13 03:01 AM
Been thinking a bit more about DS6's math curriculum as I see questions brought up here and other places. His school teaches Harcourt Math. Is anyone familiar with it? Insights would be appreciated.
I have heard good things about Singapore Math, but haven't researched it myself. Wondering what makes it so popular?
Posted By: Peter Re: Math curriculum - 09/03/13 04:36 PM
Harcourt Math is from Houghton Mifflin group that publishes textbooks. There are a few publishers (Pearsons, Glencore, Mcgraw Hill, etc..) and they publish as per State Education agency guidelines/common core standard which means 1st grader will have 1st grade Math book. They are not much different from one another. And Harcourt Math or other textbooks are pretty thick and the teacher usually never finishes the book.

Singapore Math is a little more advance than US. So, 2nd grade S'pore Math may be for 3rd grade US level. But, S'pore Math does not cover everything what the kids taught in US.

S'pore Math is short and concise (not a lot of drill) and my DD loves it. We supplemented her with S'pore Math when she was 6.





Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/03/13 06:27 PM
I have read a bit about Singapore math and it seems like a great program. I'm starting to run into the issue that is so bothersome for parents on this forum- acceleration.
When I spoke to the school about differentiation in math, I was told that they could work at their own speed on the computer 1/2 hour, once per week. It was a bit discouraging and makes me wonder how he will stay engaged.
I'm considering other options for second grade, but want to choose a school with a good math curriculum and a better plan for advancing gifted students.
Posted By: cc6 Re: Math curriculum - 09/04/13 06:44 PM
I am doing independent study thru the school district, but I purchased the Singapore Math 2A/2B which was stated to be equivalent of our (us) 3rd grade... to supplement DS6 2nd grade enVision Math book (pearson)- which is far below his math academic level & he has basically already completed.

I returned the Singapore because it was b/w, small font, basically showed concept- had some limited drills, and then moved on.

DS6 could already do all of 2A and most of 2B. I would have purchased the 3A/3B but it was no longer available at this store. I may buy it thru Amazon- better price.

In meantime, I was able to acquire the enVision 3rd grade math workbook, which he is currently working on and it starts out slowly but I am telling him it is good review, and I did pick up a Sylvan Learning 3rd grade Math- it is colorful, fun, and just presented in a completely different way than rote drilling etc

DS considers it to be more fun & games vs actual math- though it is math. More for fun- but actually is teaching - DS does khan academy and timez attacks...

An older DD learned a lot with Harcourt in early elementary, and then SAXON math begin I think around pre-algebra and on up, which many find too repetitive... boring. DD did as well and her teacher allowed her to just do approx. 5 problems from any given set, and then move on. This flexibility worked well for her and she continued with math thru HS calculus & physics...
Posted By: madeinuk Re: Math curriculum - 09/04/13 07:32 PM
Here is the SG Maths to US grade equivalency according to their website:-

Suggested placements
Posted By: phey Re: Math curriculum - 09/04/13 07:34 PM
We are just starting with Singapore in a few weeks. 4A (HOMESCHOOL) Looking at the books they seem pretty easy, and don't seem to cover much new, though I like the challenging problems supp book. Having never used other programs besides ixl, (which seems to feed perfectionism something terrible), it is hard to compare. I think he will like SM because of the low repetition. But we never relied on a book before for a lesson so to speak. Ixl is only practice, with the lesson coming from me if needed. I am curious if the US edition vs the other edition are much different, because it doesn't seem as rigorous as I expected.
Posted By: KCMI Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 02:02 AM
I have taught with Harcourt. It is pretty sequential and straightforward in state curriculum. It used to have an 'enrichment' addition that the teacher may or may not have.

Pros/Cons I have heard about Singapore is that is straightforward and logical. It encourages 'drawing' and manipulatives to problem solve. Pros is that is stresses mental math a lot and has lots of mind games/benders. If you have a kiddo that learns this way, fabulous! Cons were that it has timed elements that some students can struggle with and also if you 'miss' a portion, it can be hard to fill in. Fewer concepts are covered in a time frame, but they are mastered vs. revisited. So if you miss a concept- you may have to go back and master it before moving on.
Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 02:31 AM
I'm concluding that there is no ideal math program- just some to avoid.

I suppose the real issue for us is the first grade math- I think DS could comfortably skip most of first grade math. I'm going to continue a bit of supplementation at home and pursue an option of a gifted magnet next year for acceleration.
Posted By: jack'smom Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 02:52 AM
One of the most important things for math in the early grades is to make sure that they ultimately have their math facts cold- addition, subtraction, and multiplication. It's super boring, but it will hold them back if you don't get that down. First grade is a bit early to start but...
Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 05:05 PM
I agree & may be jumping on the "easy" math curriculum too soon. Speed and accuracy with math facts is important. We discovered whe we were doing long multiplication that although the mechanics and comprehension were there, that we needed to take more time with the multiplication table.
Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 05:17 PM
Wanted to mention (another poster said it too) that yes, ixl math also brings out my son's perfectionism. It's because ixl seems to use Kumon style timed drills. If my son misses one, he gets seriously peeved and starts yelling at the computer (been there;). I've caught him doing the pre-k material so he's sure to get them correct (he's in first grade). It's exasperating.
I am keeping my subscription to ixl because its not terribly expensive and can be helpful if he needs practice.
For homeschoolers amd any else, we love BrainPop. The videos are engaging a transparent. We looked at the one on equivalent fractions. It was crystal clear. They also have lessons in science, health, social studies, etc.
Posted By: KCMI Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 09:14 PM
I agree to master math facts. But disagree that 1st is too early. Our 1st grade expects kids to master 0-20 single digit +\- in first. They do simple multiplication in 2nd. (0,1,2,4,5,10 facts) this is a regular classroom.

Many 1st grade topics also include fractions, measuring, money (adding and finding equivilant sums), using problem solving and simple puzzles ( x+7= 10).


No one curricula fits all... So find what works for your kiddos learning style
Posted By: MumOfThree Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 09:33 PM
The math facts are certainly DDs stumbling block (yr 2, skipped) she's not strong enough on subtraction within 20 for subtraction with regrouping, which she is perfectly able for conceptually.
Posted By: ruazkaz Re: Math curriculum - 09/05/13 10:35 PM
My son was not being challenged in school so I signed him up for IXL in 2nd grade and asked him to spend 45 minutes on it most days after school. He wound up going through all of the exercises over the next two years up through eighth grade so after many many meetings we convinced the school to let him work on EPGY during the regular math period beginning in fourth grade. EPGY is advanced so we repeated 5th/6th, Pre Algebra and Honors Algebra in fourth grade. He just began EPGY Intermediate Algebra and is in fifth grade. The issue we have is that even though the school has "allowed" him to do this last year and this year, he is not getting recognition for what he has done thus could potentially have to repeat the material but I have documented enough to hopefully avoid that.

The school has recently suggested that we move to Novanet after this quarter of EPGY finishes at the end of November as he will be able to "test-out" of material he has mastered. At this stage, not sure what will happen but we will see. I have no experience with Novanet but it does not look bad...

The point of the above is that if you are supplementing their learning you will quickly wind up many many grades ahead. I am not suggesting not to do this but realize what is ahead. My son did Singapore Math also - it is more challenging than what we were doing locally in NC, especially the later grades.
Posted By: Curiouser Re: Math curriculum - 09/06/13 02:18 PM
We like IXL a lot over here - my son is only 3, so there is a lot for him to putter around in - he is a total math head, has been obsessed with numbers since almost forever, and he is hovering around 3rd grade math, give or take on ixl. What I especially like is the ability to bounce around by grade and skill.

But I was wondering, whats the difference between ixl and singapore math and dreambox and math whizz etc? thanks! smile
Posted By: doubtfulguest Re: Math curriculum - 09/06/13 02:49 PM
hi Marnie! i rejected IXL based on the timed-stuff mentioned above for our DD who learned pretty much nothing but perfectionism at school last year. she loved Dreambox for a while this summer, but we were really only using that to figure out if she had any gaps before starting homeschool (on Monday!).

but all that said, Mathletics is her true love - weirdly, i don't see that one mentioned here a lot. i like it because it doesn't have a million repetitions and will let DD skip to the test if she feels ready, which is a nice way of letting her take control of her own readiness. it also offers easier/harder options in case one area needs an adjustment - it's clear she's getting a lot out of it.
Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/07/13 01:04 PM
To Marnie- great that your DS likes ixl- traditional drills on the computer.

Singapore math is a highly regarded school and homeschool curriculum for teaching elementary age math.

Dreambox (my son's fav): Math games, teaching concepts. We get it free through DS's school.

BrainPoP: a series of fun, videos on a variety of academic subjects including math. The videos are in cartoon form, the explanations transparent, and there are quizzes at the end. I usually let DS choose what interests him, but if there is something in particular that he needs to learn, BrainPoP can help. We bought the younger and older kid version.

Khan Academy: free videos on virtually anything including math. So far, explanations are clear.

If your son likes ixl there is an app (Math App) on the iPad. We're using it for rote memorization of multiplication tables. It's adaptable to go up to 20 and you can set the time allotted for each question. Right off, I will tell you that my son can mechanically and conceptually do long multiplication, but without knowing the tables cold, he struggled with frustration.

I don't actually use the computer as much as it sounds like- but it can work for visual explanation (fractions seemed to require a lot of visual) and to put some fun into math drills/ math facts.
Posted By: Curiouser Re: Math curriculum - 09/07/13 01:53 PM
Thanks Cammon! I have no idea how DS would respond to the other formats - I stumbled upon IXL awhile ago without realizing there were a bunch of other math sites. We'll have to check them out and see how it goes. (I will admit, lately, DS has shown some frustration with getting answers wrong on IXL- and the whole 'wanting to always get it right' will sometimes end up with him trying to go to the easier grades where the likelihood of messing up is almost nonexistant. Perfectionism at its best, right? So maybe a different structure would alleviate that situation.)

Posted By: Dbat Re: Math curriculum - 09/07/13 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by ruazkaz
The issue we have is that even though the school has "allowed" him to do this last year and this year, he is not getting recognition for what he has done thus could potentially have to repeat the material but I have documented enough to hopefully avoid that.

The school has recently suggested that we move to Novanet after this quarter of EPGY finishes at the end of November as he will be able to "test-out" of material he has mastered. At this stage, not sure what will happen but we will see. I have no experience with Novanet but it does not look bad...

Hi, ruazkaz,
I'm just wondering what part of NC you're in. We're in the Triangle area and have been at private schools where they are kind of letting DD work on material we are now bringing in (AoPS for now)--but I don't know whether she'll end up getting credit for it either. I was hoping that a school might let her test out and take appropriate courses, but that does seem like a long shot. From what you're saying, too, it sounds like they're only willing to let your DS test ahead if he takes Novanet?? That seems odd, but maybe it aligns better with their curriculum?
Posted By: Curiouser Re: Math curriculum - 09/18/13 03:32 PM
question for all the well-informed parents out there: as far as the math curriculums online (dreambox, khan, singapore etc math whiz etc etc), can someone briefly give a rundown on how each of the sites are presented, and how they differ? I would love to find something less like IXL, and more along the lines of something like starfall...if there is such a thing. a way to learn and it be more fun. (not that the multiple choice isnt fun, but it becomes a little problematic with perfectionist DS wanting to get all the answers right and becoming frustrated any time he misses a question...regardless of what grade he is working on. I would love your feedback!
Posted By: Percy Re: Math curriculum - 09/18/13 03:45 PM
This article might be helpful

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10642.aspx
Posted By: HowlerKarma Re: Math curriculum - 09/18/13 03:46 PM
Well, moving offline, unfortunately, is likely to be the only way to get away from that "right/wrong" issue.

Singapore's Challenging Word Problems books are very good. Others here have said good things about AoPS, though we've not used it ourselves.

Posted By: La Texican Re: Math curriculum - 09/18/13 04:02 PM
If you want a video game to just memorize facts try Sum Dog. The free version lets you adjust the level any time. It says you're playing against live school children, but each on your own level. For each math question you get right you get to make a move on a video game puzzle. off to pull out the laptop to check out the mathletics..
Posted By: 22B Re: Math curriculum - 09/18/13 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by Marnie
question for all the well-informed parents out there: as far as the math curriculums online (dreambox, khan, singapore etc math whiz etc etc), can someone briefly give a rundown on how each of the sites are presented, and how they differ? I would love to find something less like IXL, and more along the lines of something like starfall...if there is such a thing. a way to learn and it be more fun. (not that the multiple choice isnt fun, but it becomes a little problematic with perfectionist DS wanting to get all the answers right and becoming frustrated any time he misses a question...regardless of what grade he is working on. I would love your feedback!

http://www.mathplayground.com/
(Not a "curriculum", but lots of math games and other things.)
Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/19/13 05:15 PM
Admittedly, this isn't going to cover your question but, but here is my take on what I know:

1. Dreambox is more "game" driven and visual. My DS6 likes it because it's more like playing than work. I don't think it allows for much skipping around - that is, according to his teacher, you can't move from one concept until you have mastered a previous concept. This is a blessing and a curse for gifted kids - (pro is fewer knowledge gaps, con unable to explore new math passions).

2. We've used Khan Academy a few times. It's like a YouTube classroom smartboard instruction. I like it as a supplement if my son is interested in something. It's great for me - a non-gifted parent of an HG child. I haven't thought of exponents in 20 years and didn't imagine I would have to reeducate myself when my son started the 1st grade. I figured I had a few more years- so, Khan Academy can be helpful to us regular folk trying to explain math to our more intelligent children.

3. IXL- my opinion- computer based Kumon. If you can get your child to do it, it's excellent for math drills. Mine doesnt like it either. I am not skeptical of math drills (many are)- but it helped my DS develop better fluency and become less frustrated when he automatically could calculate the component parts of a harder problem (e.g. Knowing the multiplication table "cold" sure helps stem frustration with long multiplication and division was almost an afterthought once he got that
table).

4. I'm not too familiar - we bought a workbook because we're considering a school change with the new school using Singapore. Based on what I see, I love it- especially the challenge math section at the back. In my opinion, it's more visual with a stronger emphasis on analysis than some other curriculums I've seen. I want my DS to have an arsenal for solving a math equation, which calls for strong analytical skills and mastery. Singapore math fits the bill for me.
Posted By: cammom Re: Math curriculum - 09/19/13 05:17 PM
4 should say Singapore math.
Posted By: Curiouser Re: Math curriculum - 09/19/13 05:40 PM
Thank you for the thorough review, cammon! very helpful! smile
Posted By: doubtfulguest Re: Math curriculum - 09/19/13 05:55 PM
i'll put in a(nother? i can't remember!) plug for the Australian program, Mathletics. it's not totally flexible (ie - they do ask you to pick a grade) but there are always easier/harder options available for every lesson. it also doesn't force them to crank out a billion versions of the same type of problem, which is a mercy for a kid who doesn't need a ton of reinforcement. even my kid, Captain Eyeroll, can stick out the 10 Qs in a lesson and the 15 Qs in a test without deploying too much sarcasm. she also likes that she can skip straight to the test if she feels confident.

i'm using Mathletics as a loose guide for the math portion of our homeschooling program - it certainly exceeds our regional expectations for Grade level. we do take lots of detours, but as far as the nuts & bolts of what we need to cover, it's doing us proud.
Posted By: MumOfThree Re: Math curriculum - 09/19/13 09:17 PM
We found mathletics really useful for introducing concepts to my DD, whose LDs make it really hard to learn brand new concepts in class, also it was just enough drill for confidence building for her. But it was way less complex and rigorous than the way the same content was covered at school - usually only one way of asking the same sort of question for example, making it super easy for the child to predict what the required calculation was, while teachers might phrase the question many different ways to make sure the kids know all of those ways of asking require the same concept, and likewise that there are multiple possible ways to solve.

My DD completed her year level in 10 weeks or less, she was in remedial math at the time (not PG at math!), its just really quick and easy to rip through, it helped her get out of remedial math, but primarily through making it easier to understand class enough to follow all the other stuff they covered (she has CAPD and has almost no chance of following completely new concepts given verbally in a group setting).
© Gifted Issues Discussion Forum