Hello. My DS4 attends PreK three days a week for 3 hours a day. His teacher had questions about social problems. Said he seems to want to engage the other kids, but doesn't know how. Social cues and whatnot. I wanted your advice.
I think it's b/c DS prefers adults and older kids to play with. He is an only child. He gets stuck in his head when he's absorbing new things, and may not want to run around. He also prefers 2 or 3 playmates at a time. He's says he is happy there but clearly bored. I'm more interested in him having fun and socializing then the educational.

Does anyone else have a gifted child(ren) that have social delays or, as I call them, quirks? Sometimes I wonder if the school tries to "fix" kids rather then work with the child as they come. Yes, My DS is quirky, a major introvert, and overwhelmed at times but he is loving, and caring, and enjoys his friends dearly.

Thanks.

Our DD is 3 and an only child -- she exhibits similar social "quirks." I get exhausted dealing with people who claim there's something wrong with her because she doesn't like children her own age. She gets along with older children and adults, but does better with small numbers of people and with people who will speak to her and respect her boundaries (physical space, in particular). Seems to me she's just an introvert with strong personal space boundaries -- nothing wrong with that, but not a typical 3 year old behavior.

She isn't in preschool yet, and I'm anticipating some of those same issues when she does start. I would trust your instincts. If he's warm and loving with other people (just not his classmates), it seems to me it's more of a classmate/school issue than something about him that needs to be "fixed."

Yes. As you describe it, to a T. The best thing you can hope for is acceptance, if that is asking too much, at least tolerance. They won't be able to change these kids, dearly as they would like to. They can help them learn better social skills, but they won't be able to turn them into "normal" kids. Well, thank god.
The good news is as PPs have pointed out, it does get better as they are older because they do learn to adapt to a point, and as soon as they are adults, it won't matter that they prefer adults to socialize with. It's the years from preschool through middle school that they have to get through.

This is one reason we homeschool. We didn't want schools telling our kids "stop being you".

Thank you everyone! I was sure this was a common theme among gifted kids.
Portia, yes. His teachers keeps calling it a problem. I am so tired of this word. Why can't it just be the way he is?

He does fine with older kids and adults. Especially if they get him to talk about things he likes. He just doesn't understand the 4 and 5 year olds. I think over time he will figure things out and learn to adapt. He's fine at the play ground or play places. Makes friends easily.

Thanks again everyone. I knew I couldn't be alone.

We received a call this year for DS7 (almost eight) re: social issues- quirks, not quite knowing how to engage other children, communicating, etc. He was a lot like how you describe your DC in preschool.
I would add to a category of things to be aware of- our DS has reached an age where he wants to have a "real friend." Having a "real friend" requires a skill set that he is lagging in. We didn't quite realize how far he was lagging until he reached the second grade and the other kids are buddying up and leaving him out.
At this age, we're addressing it by enrolling him in a group designed to build social skills. We're also visiting with a psychologist who specializes in gifted children to help with some of the other traits-- perfectionism, anxiety, sensitivity and intensity. All of these things can hinder social interactions and problem solving skills.
My point, is yes they are gifted and amazing, but at least in my son's case, social isolation makes him unhappy. What they want is preK isn't necessarily what they want when they are older.

How are his social skills when interacting in the small groups he prefers with age peers? When with adults? Older children?

My soon-to-be-3 son is similarly disenchanted by the chaotic ways of his age peers. Usually, within a few minutes of his attempting to engage them, they cross some physical boundary and then don't respect DS' requests for them to stop. Add to that a lack of common interests and DS has little use for most age-peers, with the exception of his best friend, an empathetic little boy who I strongly suspect is gifted

When we go to the park, my little extrovert will rally a bunch of 5 or 6 year olds and lead them in a game of his choosing. He's persuasive and I love that his experience building relationships with adults has given him the confidence to lead children twice his age. He's learned healthy social dynamics from adults and has a good sense of boundaries and reciprocity, in direct contrast to children who are not around adults all the time.

I have no problem with this social "isolation".

In retrospect, one of ours' preschool placement worked out really well in this respect, though inadvertently. Attending a lab school with both little students and big students provided a natural environment in which our child could fluidly move from social situations with age-peers to those with not-quite-adults without anyone remarking on it. To be fair, this one is pretty social across age ranges, and would not be described by anyone as having social delays. But I do think it helped, during the period when the more likely problem would have been a failure to treat adults with the deference they often expect from young children (not in a disrespectful way, just because they would be viewed as peers, just like the "other" kids).

Of course, we still ended up homeschooling eventually.

I feel for you. We are having issues in pre-K as well. The teachers are very accommodating as of now, though. Its hard not to see this as a window into their future education. I put a sticky note on my fridge with a note that says, "This doesn't mean his future is written", because when I get home from preschool drop off/pick up, I spend an hour worrying.

aquinas, with small groups of his own peers he does very well. Engages them in play. Talks and shares toys, ideas, etc. He seems very happy. Has two best friends, both age 4. With adults and older kids he does better. Even large groups. He loves parties at friends houses, even adult parties. He will engage them but not as much, since adults are not used to have detailed conversations with a 4 year old.
At the park he is drawn to the older kids. Though sometimes those older kids tease him and call him a baby. He has found a few old friends in our neighborhood that he talks about constantly.

This is what I see: He wants to be around kids his own age, enjoys the play and activity but doesn't want to participate. He likes to watch. He likes to see the kids happy and running around, more observing. He would rather sit in the sun and collect acorns. I call him my little Ferdinand.
His teacher sees: He stands on the side lines, smiling, wanting to play but not joining in. She decides he must lack social skills. Also he figites a lot in class. Can't sit still, needs to play with something. He's bored. His brain is bored and he's 4. I don't think it is right, teachers making 4 year olds sit in chairs for so long. It's hard.

Aeh, we looked into a Montessori school that had the same layout. It would have been nice but it was very expensive. I wish they had this format for the gifted classes in elementary schools.

My DS is already having trouble with bullying. I really dislike the anti bulling campaigns. The world has bullies and I think kids have to get used to it and find ways to handle it. (Please don't think I am anti helping kids, just an observation.) Now that my son is the one being picked on, it's hard. I know he's having some social delay issues, and this makes him stand out, so he's picked on. We are going to start martial arts classes with him to see if it boosts his self confidence.

GGG, I understand as well. I keep reminding myself to take it year by year. Some years might be a struggle, others he might have a great teacher. We are prepared to home school if public school doesn't work out. I am just concerned being mom and teacher. My son and I have the same strong personality. We butt heads a lot!

The Ferdinand image is charming, amielynn. The world needs more Ferdinands.

From your description, it sounds like the class format is too rigid for your DS. My personal bias is against seat work for young children. I would also be concerned about your son being urged to conform to a social identity that doesn't match his temperament.

How does your son like sports? I find sports are a great social equalizer and can bring together children with a broad range of interests and temperaments. Would he be comfortable bringing some equipment to school, like a soccer ball, and leading the play? If not, then scratch that idea!

ETA: I should add that I think it's perfectly fine for him to just sit back and relax at recess if that's his preference.

Yes!

My child is an only and has always been more comfortable around adults. In fact, I think she first crashed when she turned 4, and after getting extreme positive approval from adults for so many years she found out that once other kids became more aware of each other, they weren't so generous.

Personality-wise, mine is a people pleaser and loves everyone. Struggling socially was a huge problem, and I would have been delighted if a teacher recognized it. Her teachers thought she enjoyed being alone. She didn't.

School problems at 4 led to us contacting a neuropychologist who suggested social skills classes with docile kids only. We felt like they were too expensive and that she did really well around other kids who needed help. It was the non-social skills class kids that she needed help with.

What we did was really hone into any connection that she did make and do playdates and keep those connections and friends. It was work. But it helped her through. She's now been to three different schools and we skill keep in touch with all those friends, even when it isn't easy.

Other than that, it has been a waiting game. She's now seven and is finally starting to do okay. Part of that is having a great teacher who really accepts her. The other part is having been in enough classes to meet the people like her. Now she's meeting them. She's still a wonky kid, but it isn't so problematic.

If it isn't a problem for your child, it isn't a problem, but three years of waiting it out in my house were very difficult. She still fears rejection and just isn't willing to be as open as she was before, but she's getting a lot better.

Edited: In what I see, self confidence begins when a child feels accepted. If no one accepts you, it's really hard to feel good about yourself. Does he feel accepted? If not, maybe the teacher can help with that.

aquinas, Sports, not really. We have thought about starting martial arts classes. It's a team but not, more self motivation. I dislike seat work, but kinder is going to be lots of it. His birthday is June 4th, so technically I could hold him back a year but he would be very advanced then!

Questions, my DS is a people pleaser. He gets so upset when he thinks someone doesn't like him. Or the teacher tells him no. He feels his feeling strongly. I will talk to his teacher about him feeling accepted. That's a good point!

Same! My 3 years old doesn't enjoy to play with his friends, except only one boy, who is very smart and also like to say joke and very gentle, no pushing, taking his toys, etc. We do always have playdate with other kids, as i am lucky to have 4 other friends to have babies in the same year. However, my son doesn't like to play with them, as they like to run around, take his toys, push him, making noise (they all like him a lot, but u know, they are just kids) so my son always ask for going back home during the play date. Right until last week, my son did enjoy play with one of the girl he doesn't like to play with before. I think the reason is that the girl finally can sit still to play, and finally have some imaginative play, and doesn't mess up what he is playing.
Other parents may always think that it is the problem of my son that he has poor social skill, but I finally find out actually it is the problem of the other kids that is not "mature" to play with. (Sorry to say that) Or I should say gifted kid should find some gifted kid to play with for their advanced thinking/playing need.

Did you observe any social skill problem when your DS has playdate? My son's psychologist teach my son to ask questions e.g."do u want xxx?" "May I play?" "It's my turn", etc.

Portia, may I ask how and where to test for vision processing issues? is it included in normal vision test? Thanks.

Thanks for the info Portia, I did have done some vision therapy when i was a kid as I have a lazy eye.

My boys experiences have been a bit different, but have struggled none the less. Ds7 did great in prek! He had a best friend, his teachers adored him, was well liked and happy. In k, fell apart- knew he was different, not sporty, boys wouldn't play with him or couldn't relate at all to some (like one boy whose nose was continually draining. My son was repulsed by this.) Ds7 is finally happy again in 2nd in a new gifted school with nurturing teachers and peers. Thank goodness!

My little one ds4 is in prek. His personality is looking more like his older brother now- very eager friend, verbally precocious, and sensitive. He does like to be funny, so he does have that. Well, he is having a much harder prek year (same teachers). He only wants 1 friend and she wants to be a free agent. I find him watching for me on the playground or talking to any teacher. He adores his big brother and they play well together. I wanted this year to be great for ds4, but not seeming that way.

One thing I have observed with both my boys, they watch other kids before deciding to approach them. Thus, there are many times when they choose to play alone even though there are age appropriate kids. Maybe your son doesn't want to play with those kids?

Also, a big group of running yelling kids can be overwhelming. Maybe your dc would be happier playing with one child. Maybe the teacher could help facilitate that? That's making me think: last year, ds4's teacher did a lot of scripted play for the classroom making kids play/ be different roles and work together (there's a fire, family in a house, firefighters come and rescue.) The teacher said he used this method for play dates if they kids had trouble finding a common activity.

I'm not saying kids don't have social issues or need help. This prek- elementary years are sooo hard! Hang in there! Keep us posted!

Cynthia, at playdayes he's great. He will play and interact. Sometimes both boys will play alone.

Melessa, I think there are a handful of kids he wants to play with, but most he doesn't. I agree with the mature aspect. I am hoping as his peers get older he will be able to relate to them more.

Well, I found out the major problem! My son is being picked on daily by one kid. Kicking, hitting, pushing, taking toys away, and personal space issues. DS was afraid to tell me b/c he thought he would get in trouble. This bully is isolating DS and not letting him join in during play. He's overwhelmed and confused about the situation. I am going to start a separate thread on bullying.

amielynn38, Glad that u find out the problem, but sad that it is so serious, i think the teacher must have to do sth to prevent it happen or you may consider changing your son to other school.

Cynthialcy, Yes, we are concerning changing. My hubs wants DS to stand up for himself, and though I agree to that reasoning, I also know he's only 4.

Hello dear!! If you are looking a preschool for your kids and want best facilities and teachers where your child feels comfortable then you should go for Phoenix pre-k. This is one of the best preschool in the city. My 8 years daughter is also there, and she is very happy!

Phoenix preschool

Well, We are now homeschooling for the rest of his PreK year. We found out, after the bullying, that DS developed a class clown approach to school since he was bored. He was too advance for the curriculum, we knew that going in, but we just wanted him to have some socialization and learn how to act in a classroom setting. His teacher was not able to handle a gifted child. So, he became the class clown after he finished his work. I wish the teacher had said something to me, but she made it seem like everything was ok.

There was a big meeting with the school director and we withdrew him. Now we have to correct all this negative behavior. I feel embarrassed, angry, and overwhelmed. Any advice?

If I recall, someone had suggested taekwondo in response to an earlier post? Martial arts can be a great way to develop self-discipline and also a sense of belonging, without playing the clown.

Direct teaching of social skills can be facilitated, in some cases, with books/resources such as:
- The Unwritten Rules of Friendship (which is geared for parents to read and digest so they may guide their children),
- The Gifted Kids' Survival Guide (which is geared for kids but parents may wish to read it first to prepare for meaningful and supportive conversations, following questions their kids may have when they read it),
- Social Thinking (which discusses skills in perspective taking).

We went to a taewkondo class yesterday, another tomorrow. He was defiantly clowning then! The teacher seems to think he can get him in line. But at home, he exhibits none of this behavior. It seems to be when we are not around.

You should absolutely not feel embarrassed. This is just another example of a school being unable to meet the needs of any child who doesn't fit in their little box. This board is absolutely littered with examples of the same sort of thing. Frankly, I think the school should be embarrassed. Here they have a bright, calm child who's being bullied on a daily basis and who's so bored that he's acting out in self-preservation. And somehow this child is beyond their ability to deal with? Ridiculous.

I understand if you are angry (at them) and overwhelmed (it's a big change) but never feel embarrassed.

It sound to me like the negative behaviors were his way of coping with the bullying and the boredom. Since you are removing both of those factors, the behavior may just self-correct naturally.

Also, I'm guessing from the entire thread that the environment was much more stressful and less supportive than you ever guessed. After all, this started with the teacher saying your DS was the one with the problem! No blame here by the way -- it's incredibly hard to know what's really going on at school. I was always stunned at the lack of transparency with our DDs public schools.

Being in a calm nurturing environment (home) will hopefully be healing for him. Also, as you look for a Dojo (I'm a huge fan of martial arts for kids) make sure the energy is also calm and nurturing. We were lucky enough to find two dojos with that kind of environment, as opposed to being aggressive or frenetic.

Big virtual hugs during this difficult time.

He's never had to engage in those behaviors with you, because you provide him with a better fit. In other settings, especially those that have something in common with his former preschool (lots of other kids, a teacher), his experiences have taught them that these behaviors function better than any other tools available to him. If the new environment sets about to teach him that,
1) these behaviors are not functional here, and/or
2) there are additional tools that will be at least as effective,
he will eventually abandon them. It sounds like the new dojo may believe that he has a plan in place to do that.

It will, of course, be work, but he is young, and, as much as it may feel like someone should have caught it sooner, really, this is fairly early in the process, and I doubt that the behavior is that firmly entrenched.

Thank you ivy and aeh.
Today we went for a long hike and looked at lots of nature things. He really enjoyed it. We also got some pent up energy out. We talked a bit about school and how to behave. He seemed to understand and relaxed. We then has two short HS lessons once we came home. He was very happy.
We have had some difficultly with discipline today. He's trying his school tricks at home. I think with a bit of time, they will also go away.
The new dojo thinks he has potential and is willing to work with him. I am thankful for that!

amielynn38, my DD who is very social goes to an outdoor program that is non-academic and multi-age. So you'd think it'd work out well but we still had to make adjustments to meet her needs. Right now, teacher and I are trying to work together to make major adjustments. After 8 months, DD basically has had it with outdoor free play and wants to learn academics. According to her, she's just too old to be playing all day long and toys are apparently only for young children who do not have more productive things to do with their time.

So, please do not feel that you made a bad educational decision for your DS by enrolling him in a preschool. FWIW, the first program we gave a go was a horrible fit for DD and I thought it caused a lot of harm but DD doesn't seem to be scarred by the experience. If anything, she seems to miss some aspects of that school. Preschools is hard for precocious little ones especially if they don't have the temperament to go with the flow.

Homeschooling sounds like it's off to a great start. Please keep us updated.

Mana, Thanks. I don't regret placing him in PreK. he did love parts of it and does seem to miss somethings. His teacher this year wasn't a good fit. She wasn't willing to work with us. She decided he has social problems and that was that. He has started Taekwondo and it's going ok. We are working with his teacher to fit his needs, and they seem happy to help us. I know it's always going to be a slight battle but as long as he is happy, I am happy.