I can't spend very many hours a day with my (I think profoundly gifted) son because eventually I lose my cool and start using all kinds of bad parenting techniques like empty threats and shouting. He spends most of his day (8 hours) in a good preschool program so I shouldn't even be complaining but the reason we put him there is because I cannot manage him at home.

He refuses to do pretty much anything you tell him unless it involves eating something sweet.

Has to be in control of everything. (He even says "Don't look at me./Don't scold me/ Don't shout/ The answer is Yes, Say Yes Mama")

He is what they call in his preschool "a flight risk" - he'll take off running or go hide somewhere.

He never wants to 'do the next thing' - even with preparation, talking about it, planning ahead, setting timers. even if it's something he likes: music class, grandparents house, school, library, swimming. the answer is always No. and he ALWAYS makes it difficult.

He behaves significantly better with other people, especially those he is less familiar with. grandparents and familiar teachers at school have started to get the same treatment as we do at home.

We are not indulgent parents, but are probably not the firmest or most consistent with our boundaries. It is really hard because he finds every single boundary every day.

It's also hard because he is amazing and social and sensitive. and the temptation is not to crush or stamp any of that out. How do you not crush his spirit and his abilities and his opinions and will, yet still be firm, authoritative parents.

anyone have a similarly spirited and willful child? or feel completely useless as a parent?

No, but I married well. My DW has significant experience as a caregiver for children other than our own, some of whom have presented to their parents in much the same way as you describe. And after a bit of time with her, most of the willful behavior disappears... only to reappear the instant the child's primary caregiver arrives on scene. For example, my niece used to stay with us a lot, and she was a "flight risk" who would run out into the parking lot when she was your son's age. DW put a stop to it. Anytime we went anywhere with my niece and her parents, my niece would run again.


That would appear to me to be the issue. My DW and I are guided by this simple principle: Choose your battles carefully, but win all the ones you choose.

And above all, this principle: consider the child's perspective, and what you're teaching to that child with each seemingly-innocuous interaction.

One thing to understand is that the world is a confusing place to a 2.5yo, and they have to test using cause and effect in order to make sense of things. When results are predictable, the child gets a sense of order, and it can be quite calming and comforting. When results are unpredictable, the child must continue to test and gain more data. The child may also become frustrated, confused, and frightened when the results don't match expectations.

Consistent boundaries and consistent responses from you are key.


First, I would advise you to abandon the notion that exercising authority is associated with crushing spirit. The arbitrary and capricious exercise of authority can do that. The responsible use of authority, on the other hand, is yours because he's a child, and it's the best way you can keep him safe, socialize him appropriately, and nurture him in ways that guide him towards becoming a responsible, functional, capable adult.

The setting of boundaries still allows for free-spirited exploration, because we allow our child to, within the established boundaries, go nuts. We're also careful to never create a rule or boundary without a very good reason for it. We should always be able to answer a question of "Why not?", even if we wouldn't actually answer it to her based on age-appropriateness.

Second, I would advise you that any change you make in your parenting approach is going to exacerbate problems in the short term, because your DS has become used to certain responses from you, and any change you make will create more confusion, leading to even more acting out. Only when you've established a pattern of consistent responses to his behavior will he start to settle down, and that takes time and commitment.

[My DW and I remain convinced that this is the major reason why "terrible twos" is a thing, because most parents impose very few rules and consequences on their children until that time, and then the child experiences what seems to them to be a complete upending of what they understand about the world and their place in it, based on a complete and unexplained change in the nature of their interactions with their parents (who make up most of their world).]

Third, I would advise you to start talking with your DH over every seemingly-insignificant interaction with your son, so you can establish a uniformity in your boundaries and responses between the two of you.

Finally, I would advise you to spend quality time with your DS in child-led play every day. It strengthens the bond that makes him want to naturally please you and earn your approval. It provides you with natural opportunities and teachable moments to help him work on his boundaries and socialization. You've indicated that you feel like you can't handle him, and he's in school partly to get a break from him... if he starts to get the sense that you're avoiding him, that will only increase his insecurity, and he'll act out appropriately.

I agree with Dude on almost everything (Except that 2 year olds act the way they do because their parents impose few rules and consequences - I've seen quite a few "terrible twos" behavior even among families where there were strong consistent rules etc - I think the "terrible twos" is really just a very normal part of development that most children go through - although not always at exactly 2 :)).

The only piece of advice I'd add is a trick we used with our kids when they were that age - distract with humor. Basically get there attention off of whatever is causing the fight-back and get the both of you laughing. It's good all around, and not ever moment is a teachable moment - sometimes you just have to have fun

polarbear

Oh my god. Yes. My second was nicknamed "Bonnie" in pre-school, along with another boy--"Clyde". The two would escape from the playground in a major city. Both would take the bikes and their helmets and attempt to ride out into the street (they never made it, of course, but they kept the teacher on her toes). My older daughter would make Supernanny cry--I believe her longest time-out had me not going to the bathroom or nursing her sister for something like six hours. She never gave in until she finally screamed herself into a heap in a locked room. It was all about control. What motivates these kids is control, not love, not affection, not order. It is all about control.

Not that they don't need love, affection, and order. They do. But those don't motivate them.

I read every parenting book. I tried everything, and usually, after 8 weeks (length of the trials), it would be far worse, because every book was based on the premise that the child lacked order, or affection, or connection. That was not my child's motivation. Her motivation was control, to a really, really creepy degree, where even a hug could turn into a battle.


So familiar. Every boundary. You can make EVERYTHING perfect for the child, and he will still find a battle to pick, to control that moment. These kids prefer a screaming match to Disneyland, because they can't control Disneyland, but they can control a screaming match. It is so soul-crushing as a parent. Every fun activity, every attempt to connect with the child, is turned into a control issue.

What I finally decided was to just go through the motions and not care about the result, the connection, the relationship. I had to stay in control of MYSELF, and give up control of the kids. That was the only way to maintain my dignity and my sanity.

When I decided that, my kids still did a lot of stuff, but they lost control of me. Their actions had ZERO effect on my mood or behavior. I just went through the motions of parenting, like Dude suggests, do all the "right" things, and ignore what the child does. Focus on yourself, not your kid.

I'm not saying have no limits. I'm just saying, set your limits and consequences and say, "That's what I'm going to do, whether or not it 'works' to change behavior or attitudes, because that's what the books say, and I'm going to be okay with it, because it is ALL I CAN DO."

This allows you to maintain sanity (since you can't control your child) and also takes the wind out of the child's sails. What, I can't make mommy/teacher/granny upset any more? I can't change anything about my situation?

Good luck. I am also a big fan of red wine. Patron has a faster effect when necessary.

"DW put a stop to it."

How?

Surely she didn't do anything more severe than the parent would have done. And consistency--well, she's only with them for a short period of time, so that's not really the question.

I'm willing to bet that her authority comes from the fact that she really doesn't care--not like the parent does--about what the child does. She's in total control of her behavior, which does not depend on the child.

For many parents, who are taught that their child's behavior is their fault, such an attitude is extremely hard to cultivate. There are emotions and attitudes attached to the child's behavior.

Experience with children helps with this but so does having a certain temperament and not having to deal with said child 24/7.

Kids behave better for those not emotionally invested. Did you say whether you had other kids? It seems full time childcare must be extremely expensive if you don't work and probably not good go the child. Could you use the money to employ in home help instead. It is a lot easier to be consistent etc if you have someone else there to back you up and if there are other kids to look after those. Even a few hours would help. A tired scratchy after care child is hard to manage and it means you have no routine to fall back on in the weekend. The daycare/work thing has resulted in a lot of probema in our house. Also you will yell and you will fail. Just pick yourself up and start again (think dieting)

I find this statement extremely offensive and inappropriate.

I'm terribly sorry.

My children respond far better to people who aren't invested in the outcomes of their behavior, as do the children in my care who are not my own.

I don't mean your wife doesn't care if they live or die or anything.

I just mean, whether or not they behave, does not affect her opinion of herself or the situation. She can remain objective and detached, a professional manager of child behavior, rather than a family member who reacts to it.

The behavior doesn't affect her because she doesn't take responsibility for it. Because it doesn't affect her, the control motive is gone, so the child responds to the other systems she has in place.

Does that make sense?

I'm not trying to insult your wife. I personally care far less about the behavior of kids who aren't my own, even if I love them dearly. I just feel their behavior doesn't reflect on me as a person, so I can confidently do what I want and they obey me. It's awesome. I do not consider it to be a character flaw. That's just how it is.

As a parent, though, I have to put on a mask and hide my emotional investment in my children's behavior, or detach from it in a zen-like exercise which requires significant mental effort. Otherwise, they control me, and that control intoxicates them. That intoxication makes any other interaction pale in comparison.

There you go. That's exactly what you do. You can't let the children control your behavior. You're the parent.

DW used the same approach with our own DD for the same problem, so it's not like there's an investment issue. In both cases, her instincts screamed out to chase the child and catch them before danger struck. But she also knew that she'd be playing right into the child's hands, and effectively encouraging the behavior she wanted to prevent. So she stood her ground, and declared, "I am not going to chase you." Then she backed up those words by not giving chase. The child had no reason to run if there wouldn't be a chase. Where's the fun in that?

DW would calmly explain why the child needed to walk with an adult and hold their hand, because drivers can't see them, but they can see the adult, and the adult can keep them alive.

If the child still wanted to run, the trip was aborted, and whatever negative consequences came of that were felt by the child. "Sorry, we can't play this afternoon, because I couldn't make that grocery trip and now I'm going to have to figure out what I can do with what we have on hand, so I'll be busy. I need to be able to trust you to stay with me so I can keep you safe in the parking lot. Maybe we'll try again tomorrow."

I'm one of those people who has had many careers and one of them was working with children with emotional behavioral disorders (not implying that your DS has one; just explaining my circumstances). Many of them were runners. I was placed in a facility that was very close to a busy intersection. Needless to say, it was not an ideal situation.

My biggest challenge was controlling my own emotional reactions. I was young and inexperienced so it didn't come easily but I realized soon enough that I wasn't getting anywhere if I didn't remain calm while the boys were climbing up the trees and throwing rocks (at me and others).

It was easier to be sympathetic towards these children as most of them had a very traumatic childhood and/or severe disorders. Then I see DD. We are by no means wealthy but we have enough and she has two loving parents who are devoted to her well-being. So when she gives us attitude, it is harder for me to stay calm and not react because honestly, there is no need for her to be so defiant and oppositional. I WISH I had parents who cared about me as much as we care about DD. My first 6 or 7 years were filled with near-death experiences since I was so poorly supervised.

So I'm still learning to remain calm with DD. It's slowly improving. It helps immensely that she no longer fights about bedtime. Both SO and I keep on repeating to her that it's our job as her parents to keep her safe and healthy because we love her. I think the message is sinking in and she is no longer blatantly oppositional like doing exactly what we've just told her not to do. It's a long learning process.

One thing I do suggest is that you stop giving empty threats. When I threaten DD, she knows I mean every word so she stops and assess about the possible consequence of her action like the time when her glockenspiel ended up being donated to a shelter.

My DS6 was also very difficult from 2-5. We joke that he uses his intelligence for evil. Not really, but he's a boundary tester. He still does it, except I've learned to laugh a little about the extremes he will go to to find where the boundaries are. A great example of this was when he was 4 and I was visiting a friend. There was a large fountain nearby and my son managed to dunk his hair in the fountain. I told him to stay off the fountain. He obliged, but then proceeded to keep one foot on the ground and straddled the ledge so he could stick his other foot in the fountain. Technically he was "off the fountain". I can laugh about it now, but so very irritating in the moment. It's hard to discipline a kid like that.

He did used to throw epic tantrums too that would last hours. We saw a family therapist when it got so disruptive that we couldn't enjoy life with him. We couldn't go anywhere and his little sister was getting ignored because he was so out of control. He would explode into hours long screaming its over simple things like asking him to get his shoes on. It was a very scary time. In hindsight, this was likely due to a major change be because his sister went to preschool, so our nanny who'd watched him since he was a baby had left.

I do remember feeling relief at dropping him off at school during this time. You may want to seek some family therapy. I read a ton of books trying to figure out what to do and we had a huge "toolbox" to deal with behavior. The therapist was actually amazed at how well we were able to switch from technique to technique. It wasn't like we weren't doing a good job. The parent-child bond had just gotten broken down and we were in a terrible cycle that needed to be broken.

There were 2 things that worked for us that may or may not work for you. First, the child-led play was a critical one. Just 10 minutes to let him lead you and tell you what to do and you indulge him in tons of positive feedback. It felt very odd to do that, but lots of compliments and letting him be in control for a small amount of time helped. He also received undivided attention in a fun, totally loving way. This helped strengthen the parent/child bond again.

The second was that he was dealing with a lot of anxiety. We knew he was able to think ahead through time in a way that far beyond his age. He would constantly worry about things that were happening months ahead of time. We stopped telling him about big changes because he would get so anxious about it. There are some things that can't be avoided though, like summer break. To combat this, the therapist suggested listening to guided meditation to help him relax. We incorporated it into his bedtime routine and he still listens to it.

I just wanted to share that therapy might be something to consider because a pG kid can be very intense and they can understand things that they aren't emotionally able to handle. Just like school, they sometimes require special handling with behavior too. It doesn't mean you are a bad parent. We learned we are actually really great at it, but we still needed help.

Good luck!

You are not alone. My DD started 'testing' behaviors at about 18 months and at first we thought that it was just the 'Terrible Twos' it wasn't it got worse. With others she was a docile little lambkin but with us, my Lord!

DW and I even had a private name for her which combined Karakatoa with her name it was so bad. At about 3.5 it calmed down. Hang in there.

We already do. More than any couple I know, we spend all night talking about how to deal with every moment we are with him in the day. We come up with responses and contingency responses and edge cases. We have to adapt them frequently because he outsmarts us, out-negotiates us and outlasts us. We marvel at his brain and we despair at his inability to yield. The only time he sort of relaxes his aggressive need to control is when he's sick.

I have already had moments where I've crushed his spirit. I've seen it. He cried and told his grandparents "I'm sad because I'm a naughty boy and I want to be good" and he was really subdued. He also says, "Don't scold me, Mama." and I have had to apologize to him for my harshness. But it doesn't change his willingness to listen. It does change my willingness to keep correcting his behavior. Because after all, he's only 2.

Just remember everything changes. You may not like the next stage much but it will be different and he will be older.

Thank you for those those of your who are able to commiserate... it really does help.

The thing about spirits is that they are remarkably resilient, so it's okay for him to get down once in a while. This is also where it's important to intervene so he understands the message is about the behaviors and choices, which is something he can control, rather than a permanent judgement on him, which he can't. "You're not a naughty boy, you just made a bad choice. Next time, you can choose differently."

It also looks like you're effectively handing him the tools to manipulate you. If he commands you to stop scolding, and you respond by apologizing, you've allowed him to take control of the conversation and steer it to his own ends. If he's making you reevaluate your commitment to correcting him, then you're allowing him to sabotage your best weapon, which is consistency.

For commitment, it helps to keep in mind that any behaviors you're trying to correct are for his benefit, because they'll either keep him safe, or help him in future social settings where you're not there to guide him. In either case, he's far better off for you to correct him than if you don't. Two is the best time to be teaching these things, rather than years down the line when they've become ingrained habits.

My DD9 still says, "Stop yelling at me," when we're disciplining her in a normal tone, because that's an uncomfortable conversation for her, so she responds with a normal avoidance technique.

I agree with your diagnosis but I wouldn't even go that far with a very stubborn child, though this might work with some children. Telling my child she wasn't naughty opened up a conversation about how she WAS naughty and how I hated her. "I don't hate you but..." "Yes you do!!!" Escalating bizarre statements intended to make me feel bad. Etc.

Instead I'd just repeat the previous statement. Don't even acknowledge the self-pity.

This is all you need. Really:

http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Strong-Willed-Revised-Expanded-Edition/dp/0770436595

DS7 is pretty strong willed. We refer to DD3 as having a "titanium" strength will. She sounds like your DC a bit. Except we have titanium strength boundaries at home, so things are pretty smooth here. In a nutshell, the book outlines that you MUST be consistent with your boundaries because there are some children in the world who simply LOVE and need to always test the boundaries in their worlds. The trick is for you to maintain and enforce boundaries consistently without getting crazy. (I know, not easy at first.) One of the examples from the book (I think): when you get pulled over for a traffic violation, the cop doesn't (or shouldn't!) get upset and start whining at you asking why you had to break the law in the first place. The cop tells you why you've been pulled over, gives you a consequence and sends you on your way. No need to get tied in knots.

Your concern about your child's spirit being squashed: having worked with lots of kids over the years and with my own kids, a child is MUCH freer in a world with clear boundaries and consequences. With a child who is not used to boundaries and consequences, when rules are put in place, at first, the child will have a hard time. But once things stabilize, the child is so much happier and freer because he can just relax and do something other than testing boundaries 24/7. (Though a strong willed child will need to test boundaries every now and then - just because that's the kind of "research" they need to do.)

Get the book. Read it. Do it. :-)

BTDT

I find with DS-almost-2.5, dubbed "the tornado", we have to explain in great detail before an incident happens why something isn't a good idea. Prophylactic discipline.

Now, I try to hold/hug DS when he's oppositional or being disciplined. I find the gentle physical contact conveys a very strong "I care about you" message and contextualizes disciplinary wording. We keep the emphasis on the behaviour, not the person, and praise randomly when DS is behaving well.

I agree with Dude that consistency is the best gift you can give your child. Set only essential, hard boundaries and be laser focused about enforcing them. I pick one or two behaviours to work on and aim for 90%+ consistency in making corrections. It usually takes a week or two to remediate a behaviour this way and, because DS hears the same message constantly, he is able to quickly assimilate the expectations for him.