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Posted By: Brad Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/05/17 11:58 PM
My name is Bradley M. Camper, Jr. and I am a doctoral candidate at Walden University. Recently I have received IRB approval to collect data for my dissertation. The title of my dissertation study is called, �A Case Study Analysis among Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts.�

I am looking for potential participants for this study. Unfortunately, I have struggled locating this population of students. These are some of the criteria for the study; they were identified as a gifted student at some point in their academic career and dropped out of an urban high school, between the ages of 18 and 30 (those older than 30 can be considered for participation). If you know of any persons that were identified as a gifted student at some point in their academic career and dropped out of an urban high school please contact me via email at: bradley.camper@waldenu.edu. I am looking forward to hear from you or your organization.

Any assistance you can offer me, with locating potential participants, will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Bradley M. Camper, Jr. , MPA, MA
PhD Student
Walden University
Human Services: Family Studies and Intervention Strategies
Posted By: Kai Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 02:37 AM
I would suspect that a large percentage of gifted people who dropped out of high school were not identified as gifted by their schools. For example, highly creative folks who don't present as "schoolhouse gifted" and 2E individuals are very often missed by gifted screening.

You may want to broaden your definition of gifted in order to capture gifted high school dropouts who weren't identified as gifted in school.
Posted By: puffin Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 04:01 AM
I chose to leave school at 15. I didn't drop out because I had no choice about going in the first place and made no commitment to stay longer than legally required. Gifted didn't exist where I was though. Eta and it was expected that only about 1/10 students would finish high school because that is how the NZ system was designed.
Posted By: aeh Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 04:21 AM
You may wish to clarify if there is a distinction between students who left high school prior to graduation to pursue higher education (as I and others I know did), and those who left for other reasons. Since technically both dropped out of high school.
aeh makes a good point. My BFF did just that, our sophomore year.

(I was furious that my own mother wouldn't permit me to skip that last two years, too!)

She went on to earn a CPA by age 21, and became a hot-shot tax auditor.

Posted By: indigo Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Brad
If you know of any persons that were identified as a gifted student at some point in their academic career and dropped out of an urban high school please contact me via email at...
A few thoughts...

In your post I do not see the name of a professor overseeing your work, therefore I am leery.

Additionally, some might say it would violate ethics to contact you and identify a third party. I have a concern for protecting the privacy of any prospective human subject. I would think you may cast a wider net by creating and posting a survey which individuals could review and consider participation. It is possible that readers on the forum may be willing to share a link to a posted survey, while they may be unwilling to contact you directly via e-mail. The potential benefits of participating must outweigh the potential risks, and confidentiality/anonymity must be guaranteed.

Is this your Walden University? You might consider reading more about IRBs on the internet... such as...
Originally Posted by FDA IRB FAQ #10
The fundamental purpose of IRB review of informed consent is to assure that the rights and welfare of subjects are protected. A signed informed consent document is evidence that the document has been provided to a prospective subject (and presumably, explained) and that the subject has agreed to participate in the research. IRB review of informed consent documents also ensures that the institution has complied with applicable regulations.
While I understand your thesis is titled "a case study analysis", I see little benefit to society from such an endeavor unless there is a companion study on non-urban (rural, suburban, etc) youth... allowing one to compare/contrast experiences after dropping out. For example: existing support system and/or ability to build a support system leading to positives such as GED, apprenticeship, community college, or floundering with possibly a series of low-wage jobs, crime as a source of income, incarceration.

Your dissertation sounds as though it will consist of anecdotal evidence, and not be based on empirical evidence. Therefore I have a concern for an incomplete picture. Some may call this bias.

As a means to find your target subjects, you may wish to review longitudinal data collected by various State's Department of Education. You may be able to identify high schools with gifted pupils not graduating and communicate with these schools regarding your research.

As an alternative, could you consider a literature review? Would that meet the criteria for your dissertation?

Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: Brad Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 03:04 PM
Thank you for replying to my post. The name of my dissertation chairperson is Dr. Gregory P. Hickman and he can be contacted at Gregory.hickman@waldenu.edu. The Research Participant Advocate at Walden University is Dr. Leilani Endicott you may contact her at 1-800 -925 -3368 extension 3121210 or email at irb@waldenu.edu if you have questions about rights as a participant in this study. Walden University�s approval number for this study is 12-30-16-0317762 and it expires on December 29, 2017.

I apologize for any misunderstanding my post created. I posted my information for anyone that maybe leery could contact me prior to passing the information along. What I am asking is that, if you are a person that meets the aforementioned criteria and you are interested in participating that you contact me. Therefore, I am not asking anyone to give the names of or identify third party individuals. Also, if anyone reading this post knows of such persons, that you pass my information to them and let them contact me directly, if they choose to participate. I am fully aware of the IRB requirements and regulation, as I have completed the process. With respect to your understanding the benefit is it had to be narrowed down first. With any research and especially with dissertation studies, suggestions for future research are made in the last chapter, of which studying the same population in rural and suburban areas will be made. In addition, so you understand the benefit of this study is to understand from the perspectives of the lived experiences of the participant why they chose to drop out while they had the cognitive ability to do the work assigned. My study is a qualitative study that is addressing a specific phenomena and requires participant to be interviewed. The interviews are then transcribed and later coded using a qualitative coding program like Dedoose or NVivo. I have used data mining to assist in my search of participants.

I hope this helps quell some of your skepticism.
Posted By: Brad Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 03:21 PM
Hi Kai,

You are absolutely correct in that assertion. That is why I am doing this study. I am trying to see both, why they choose dropout and maybe determine why they are missed too? I will discuss your suggestion further with my dissertation chair and methods persons.

Thanks

Brad
Posted By: Brad Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 03:24 PM
Hi Puffin,

Can we discuss your situation in private? You may be perfect for my study and I would like to learn more. You can email me at bradley.camper@waldenu.edu. Hope to hear from you.

Brad
Posted By: Brad Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 03:30 PM
Honestly, AEH, I have had this issue come up and my chair person stated I could use those potential participants that have dropped out prior to graduation in order to pursue higher education. So, if you know of anyone please give them my information and have them contact me.

Thanks

Brad
Posted By: indigo Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Brad
I posted my information for anyone that maybe leery could contact me prior to passing the information along.
Thank you for your reply. Consistent with Board Rules on not identifying individuals, I contacted you through the forum rather than via e-mail. Hopefully the further information which you have provided will assist in recruiting prospective participants.
Posted By: Brad Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 03:36 PM
HowlerKarma,

AEH has a very good point and I just replied to her a few minutes ago. This situation came up with another potential participant and after discussing it my chair and method persons, they agreed that I could use potential participants with this sort of background. If you want you can pass my information to your BFF and have her contact or you can contact me with any questions or concerns you may have.

Thanks

Brad
Posted By: Val Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by indigo
While I understand your thesis is titled "a case study analysis", I see little benefit to society from such an endeavor unless there is a companion study on non-urban (rural, suburban, etc) youth... potential risks

Different people see little benefit to different TV shows or styles of painting or certain software apps. Personally, I think it's not a good idea to judge something so harshly based on a one-paragraph description. Not to mention that analysis of case studies is the basis of many areas of research. For example, an analysis of case histories is essential to understanding diseases (and even to identifying a disease as being distinct when it's never been seen before).

As for risks, a major part of IRB approval is to judge risks. In fact, the entire process is structured to assess different levels of risk (e.g. experimental surgery or a drug candidate = high risk; a blood draw = low risk). The risk level for a survey depends on what's being surveyed. Walden's website says that their IRB complies with 45 CFR 46 (look it up).

Originally Posted by indigo
Your dissertation sounds as though it will consist of anecdotal evidence, and not be based on empirical evidence. Therefore I have a concern for an incomplete picture. Some may call this bias.

Not sure what you mean here. Suggest you do a bit of serious reading on survey studies. Example: this file. Also, this page on qualitative vs. quantitative studies is more basic. Not to mention that, knowing very little about Brad's methods, you're not in a position to call his work biased (that job goes to his supervisor, his thesis committee, and peer reviewers). I suspect that you're not a scientist or a professional with experience in this area, meaning that you probably don't have the experience to judge his methods. Sometimes, when we lack knowledge about an area, it's easy to think that something is one way, when in fact, it isn't --- but you need experience in the field to understand it.

I don't know much about Brad's research, and therefore I can't judge it. Again, that's his supervisor, et al.'s job.


Originally Posted by indigo
As an alternative, could you consider a literature review? Would that meet the criteria for your dissertation?

People who haven't done a Ph.D. often don't know that the degree requires original research (to be worth the paper it's written on, anyway). A literature review is simply one part of what's required to get the degree. It's usually the opening chapter in a thesis (depends on the style of the thesis).

Brad, have you tried contacting Mensa (local or national groups)? They might be willing to forward your message to their members.
Posted By: indigo Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Val
Personally, I think it's not a good idea to judge something so harshly based on a one-paragraph description.
My post began with "A few thoughts..." and ended with "Just my 2 cents."

Originally Posted by Val
Walden's website says that their IRB complies with 45 CFR 46 (look it up).
I also noticed that Walden University is unranked, and the OP did not inspire my confidence. Mentioning my concerns allows the OP to incorporate and/or ignore portions of my input. If other posters, such as yourself, would like to endorse the approach in the OP, it seems that may be done without taking exception to my post?

Originally Posted by Val
Suggest you do a bit of serious reading on survey studies.
Thank you for the links. However the OP did not present a survey.

Originally Posted by Val
Not to mention that, knowing very little about Brad's methods, you're not in a position to call his work biased
Any person reading what is posted on a public forum is entitled to form and express an opinion. Doing so does usurp "that job" from "his supervisor, his thesis committee, and peer reviewers."

Originally Posted by Val
I suspect that you're not a scientist or a professional with experience in this area, meaning that you probably don't have the experience to judge his methods. Sometimes, when we lack knowledge about an area, it's easy to think that something is one way, when in fact, it isn't --- but you need experience in the field to understand it.
As an example, when one poster assumes the background of another poster...?!

Originally Posted by Val
I don't know much about Brad's research, and therefore I can't judge it. Again, that's his supervisor, et al.'s job.
The supervisor (and other information commonly shared when recruiting subjects for a research project) was not shared in the OP.

Originally Posted by Val
A literature review is simply one part of what's required to get the degree. It's usually the opening chapter in a thesis (depends on the style of the thesis).
Yes, some may wonder whether the sparse info shared in the OP may indicate that some preliminary research may be needed.

Originally Posted by Val
Brad, have you tried contacting Mensa (local or national groups)? They might be willing to forward your message to their members.
Hopefully more information would be included in such a message... possibly combining pertinent information from the OP and the subsequent post.
Posted By: puffin Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/07/17 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Brad
Hi Puffin,

Can we discuss your situation in private? You may be perfect for my study and I would like to learn more. You can email me at bradley.camper@waldenu.edu. Hope to hear from you.

Brad

I think going to a rural high school in NZ rules me out. Also since gifted wasn't catered for it wasn't tested for either. So maybe I am not ant my kid's father contributed all the IQ.
Posted By: KJP Re: Former Gifted Urban High School Dropouts - 07/08/17 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by Brad
I have had this issue come up and my chair person stated I could use those potential participants that have dropped out prior to graduation in order to pursue higher education

The early entrance program at University of Washington would include students who drop out to pursue higher education. I think there's a discussion on some part of their website that discusses how not getting a high school diploma has not held back any of their students.
Realistically, the OP (probably) has done more work on his project than he is sharing here, and at any rate, he likely won't change his approach based on our comments -- imagine telling your advisors you went to the internet for advice! :-)
However, I do agree that case studies can be valuable in some respects, though I'm certainly not a professional.

Secondly, I find it interesting to note that Walden University (unless I am mistaken; I just googled it) is a for-profit, accredited, online university. While this may not necessarily affect the quality of the OP's work, I thought it may interest some posters. It may also lead to some logistical issues for the OP, although on the other hand it does mean he can remotely interview anyone.
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