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Posted By: Jennie72 How to calculate GAI ? - 06/22/08 09:51 AM
Hi - I am new here (from Australia - we don't see to have anything vaguely resembling the support network you have in the USA). My background is that I have three lovely boys (8,6 and 4) and the oldest two have been identified as gifted. My concern is for the elder boy (8) who has widely varying scores. The pyschologist gave him the WISC-IV test but didn't give us individual scores just the overall scores. These were:

VCI: 144
PRI: 112
WMI: 129
PSI: 94

Yes, wide variation ! We have since taken our son to see an OT specialist to look at reasons why his PS may be so low. It has been suggested that he has auditory processing disorder. The school don't see this however, principally because he learnt to read incredibly quickly. The outcome of all this testing also showed he has dyspraxia and sensory integration disorder. A lot of labels !

I asked the pyschologists about calculating a GAI and she said that she had never heard of it. I didn't want to push the issue so thought I would do some research of my own, but despite looking through the technical report no.4, I can't seem to find a description of how to calculate it based on these numbers alone.

Is anybody able to help ?

many thanks, Jennie

Posted By: EandCmom Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/22/08 12:07 PM
Hi Jennie and welcome! We have some people here who are great with test scores and numbers, etc. and I am sure they will have lots of advice. For calculating the GAI you can go to www.appliedgifteded.com/gai_worksheet-appliedgifteded.pdf .

Hope this helps!
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/22/08 12:53 PM
Hi Jennie72 and welcome!

I'm looking for my Tech Report for the WISCIV. If you google "WISCIV Technical Report IV" it should pull it up for you. OK I found it and here is a clip but I"m not finding what I'm looking for.

Our resident score guru is AWK (away w/out keyboard) but she'll be back. In order to calculate the GAI, you need the scaled scores of the subtests for VCI and PRI.

I seem to remember you need less than 22 pt spread between VCI and PRI and a greater than 22 pt spread between VCI/PRI and WMI/PSI in order to consider GAI but I can't find where I read that. I'm not sure w/ your son's VCI and PRI spread, that looking at GAI will adequately portray him either. There is a WISCIV Excel spreadsheet I've used in looking at DS's WISCIV scores. I think the unusual spread for VCI/PRI is >20pt spread and your son's is 32 pts.

Here's the link for the spreadsheet. http://alpha.fdu.edu/psychology/WISCIV_Index.htm

Posted By: Jennie72 Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/23/08 01:09 AM
Thanks for your advice. We feel like we are drowning a bit at the moment. The pyschologist was not the nicest - she just didn't connect with DS at all - she glossed over the achievment side of things and just concentrated on the "disorder" side. When we showed DS's school the report, they said it is was like reading about a completely different child. None of it made sense. As an example, she felt that DS was borderline aspergers - the school couldn't understand this at all (and given they have a fair few aspergers kids, I trust their opinion). Yes, DS can be quirky, it takes him a while to trust someone and open up, he fidgets a lot, but he basically is a average kid with above average academic skills. Maybe we are burying our heads in the sand, but given that nobody else has ever raised this issue, it came a bit out of the blue. The pschycologist is reluctant to give us his sub-test scores, and I am not sure why. I still find it hard to believe that she didn't know what a GAI was. She said his FSIQ was 127 but that it was inaccurate due to his 32 point gap. Sorry for the long winded reply, we are just trying to undertand all of this information, and resources are a bit scarce in Australia.
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/23/08 01:33 AM
Yes his FSIQ is not very helpful. What you need are the scaled scores for each of the subtests. That will tell you where the spread lies. DId he have 16, 12, 8 on PRI or PSI? Or was it 10, 10, 10. Also, my son's psych made a calculation error, I would have never known had I not had the scaled scores. You need to get those scaled scores. I know my friend's Dd's psych was reluctant to get them but she insisted and he gave them in the end.

And if she didn't connect w/ him at all, it makes the whole test situation suspect. A lot seems to depend on the interaction between tester and testee.

hugs, I'm sorry the psych is making this difficult.
Posted By: Cathy A Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/23/08 03:42 AM
Tell the psych the school wants you to get the subtest scores because the FSIQ is not accurate due to the spread. She said as much herself, didn't she?
Posted By: incogneato Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/23/08 04:53 AM
I'm sorry the tester would not give you the subtest scores. I find that quite odd. You are right to seek out help from the GT community, I'm sorry that you don't find strong support where you are in Australia. I don't know much about GT education in Australia, except what I have read about Terrence Tao. It seems disapointing to me that a child's educational needs could by stymied by politics, but it is so to an extent in all countries, I suppose.
I don't know if this will help you, but here goes:

http://www.neopsychology.com.au/ourTeam.php

specifically, Jodie Valpied. I don't know if this group is within a reasonable distance. I also have no personal knowlege, just have a good feeling from what I have read.

Good luck and I hope you figure out what is going on for your son. It certainly warrants further investigation.

Neato
Posted By: Cathy A Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/23/08 05:49 AM
Here's the link to the technical report Jennie mentioned:



To calculate the GAI you need to know the General Ability Sum of Scaled Scores.

Quote
The General Ability Sum of Scaled Scores is the sum of scaled scores for three Verbal Comprehension subtests (i.e., Vocabulary, Comprehension, and Similarities) and three Perceptual Reasoning subtests (i.e., Block Design, Matrix Reasoning, and Picture Concepts)...

Locate the General Ability Sum of Scaled Scores in the extreme left column of Table 1. Read across the row to determine the GAI composite score.
Posted By: cassandra Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 02:06 AM
Hi Jennie,
I'm also in Aust & also have 3 boys (12,9 & 8) as well as a 4yo dd. All have been Id'd as gifted, the oldest two as HG+.
I empathise with you - the psych who tested my 8yo wouldn't even give me a FSIQ, stating that his "unique set of thinking & reasoning abilities make his overall intellectual fuctioning difficult to summarise by a single score on the WISC-IV as his verbal abilities are better developed than his perceptual reasoning abilities." Duh!! And while the report listed the subtests & what they measured, it didn't show his subtest scores, but just a qualitative description for the range in which he fell (well above average, above average, high average etc.)
I thought about following up & asking for the scale scores so I could calculate a FSIQ & GAI (I doubt she would have known what it was either), but the psych confirmed his placement in a GT class which was the reason he was tested in the first place, so I didn't bother.
I don't know why there seems to be such a reluctance here to give parents all the information. I know when an Ed Dept psych tested my older boys it was the same scenario. Only descriptors, not scale scores or IQ scores, & IQ was only represented as a percentile rank.

But with regards to your son, does his school recognise the need for GT accommodations based on his high VCI? I wouldn't stress too much about what a psych who has only spent an hour or two says if it doesn't fit with what you see in your child every day. Use the psych report for what it gives you - confirmation that your son IS gifted, has an extremely high verbal IQ, so will need adjustments to the curriculum to ensure he remains engaged & challenged, & might need some support to overcome some motor difficulties which resulted in below average processing speed.

It can be overwhelming, so feel free to vent your frustration as required! smile

Cheers,
Cassandra
Posted By: Jennie72 Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 03:10 AM
Thank you so much for your support ! I know it sounds odd, but I am sitting here with tears in my eyes as I feel that finally someone understands our situation. The school, to be honest, find the whole gifted thing amusing. They looked at the reports for both the elder boys, and commented "wow, aren't they lucky to be so clever", and then said "we don't really have anything available to offer them, we only have extra programs for those who are having difficulties". There is NO government funding for gifted education at primary school level (for USA readers, this is 5 years up to 12 years). We do what we can at home (but it can be exhausting - DS6 just wanted to keep telling me facts about orca whales last night while i just wanted to chill and watch TV), but are unsure how much to push the school as it seems that nmore we push, the more the teachers turn away. I don't know any other parents with gifted children, so support is not easy to come by. I have now sent the psychologist an e-mail asking for the subtest scores (again). This is the wimps way out - I could ring her, but by e-mail I can sound more assertive !

thanks again for all your advice.
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 03:55 AM
I'm so sorry Jennie72, that you are in this position. Are there any other parents of gifted kids that have been on the road you are on that can give you advice for the school that you are in?
Posted By: acs Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 04:11 AM
A few years ago, when I was looking up some things about my DS, I stumbled on this site www.qagtc.org.au which is based out of Queensland and did seem to have some good resources and intersting chat rooms as well. I haven't spent much time there lately, but if you haven't given it a try it might be worth a look.
Posted By: cassandra Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 05:35 AM
You poor thing! I know it can be really isolating when trying to deal with the issues faced by our children due to their giftedness. When schools don't appear to have the slightest level of understanding as to the complexities involved it's completely disheartening. These people are the professionals, right? But don't lose hope. Sometimes it just takes talking to the right person to have things start to move, the trouble is it often takes a long time to find out who the right person is!
Do you mind me asking what state you're in? Some of the states have quite active Gifted Childrens' Associations who would be a good first point of contact & could give you an insight into how things work in the education system in your state. They also provide an opportunity for you to meet with other parents if you're able to get along to some of the organised activities. You do really need to have people to share with, which is why boards like this are so valuable. I don't often get to contribute, simply because I feel like with the time zone lag I'm joining a conversation when it's already finished, but I'm always grateful to read of other parents experiencing the same sort of trials & tribulations (& joys) as I'm facing with my children, and have learned a lot from the advice offered.
Don't be afraid to keep pushing the school until you have a situation that suits your child. Sometimes that may just not be possible at that particular school & you might need to consider other options, but your child's happinness & achievement will be your guide. And what works this year will not necessarily work next year, so be prepared for change!

Cassandra
Posted By: Jennie72 Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 06:09 AM
Hi Cassandra,
We are in Adelaide, South Australia. I know we have a Gifted and Talented Association but I haven't contacted them yet.

thanks, Jennie
Posted By: cassandra Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/24/08 07:14 AM
Wow, small world! I'm also in Adelaide!!! grin
Definitely get in touch with GTCASA. My younger three have recently started going to their Saturday Club sessions after a hiatus of a few years & they're loving it. PM me for further details if you like.

Cheers,
Cassandra
Posted By: Jennie72 Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/25/08 04:20 AM
Thanks Dottie, Cassandra and everyone else.

In terms of follow up testing, the OT guy we saw pretty much repeated all the visual and auditory processing tests that the psych did. From his report "visual processing is in the highly gifted range (more than 2 SD than the average) but auditory processing is five times slower than the average. His advice was just to let Max be. Let him be Max, and in his own time and space he will compensate for any difficulties he may have. He used to have HUGE issues staying on task in class, but his teacher recently gave him an oven timer and now he finished first all the time - she told him to try and beat the timer and that was enough of a challenge to get him to stay focussed. We are just not sure whether to be further testing. As further background, Max was critically ill 2 years ago (Encephalomyelitis) and has had so many tests and probes stuck on him, that as long as he seems healthy and happ, we are loathe to examine these WISV - IV results too much. I guess I don't really know what a VCI score of 144 is - does this alone mean he is gifted or is not enough ? The school has always ascertained that he is gifted as he is very differen to the other kids academically - how many other 8 year olds are reading Blainey's "A short History of the world" for fun ? In terms of an indicator of general ability, how does VCI scores stack up against the others ? Are they weighted at all ? I seem to remember reading something that not all gifted kids have great processing speeds. But what could have brought down his PRI ? Are some of these subtests processing based ? Sorry, too many questions. I shall stop !

thanks again for all you wonderful advice.
Posted By: Cathy A Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/25/08 06:28 AM
I believe 144 corresponds to the 99.8 percentile. So your son scored in the top two tenths of a percent for verbal abilities. Definitions of gifted differ but usually a score of 130 or above on the WISC-IV is considered gifted.

I couldn't hazard a guess about the PRI score. My daughter also scored significantly lower on PRI than on VCI. In her case, she has trouble with visual/motor integration.
Posted By: cassandra Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/25/08 07:08 AM
Absolutely a VCI of 144 is plenty high enough!

I would think that in SA that qualifies him for a Gifted NEP. (There may be no special funding, but they are still required to provide certain things) My son was formally approved for a Gifted NEP with a Verbal IQ at the 99.8th percentile on the WPPSI, & the Dept. psych only administered 1 subtest on the Performance scale as the Verbal was enough.
Posted By: Dazed&Confuzed Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 06/25/08 02:17 PM
Jenni,
What visual and auditory processing tests did the OT perform? I wonder how those differ from those on the WISCIV/PRi subtests? Did he conjecture about the discrepancy (high gifted range vs above avg on WISCIV)?

I've read similar things to Dottie online that VCI is a better predictor of academic ie success in school. My best guess is that a strong PRI may mean visual-spatial learner and typically, that is not how schools teach.

The WISCIV was overweighted for WMI and PSI compared to earlier tests and WMI and PSI are poor predictors of intellectual ability. However, I did read in the WISCIV Technical Report that two kids w/ identical GAIs but one w/ lower PSI/WMI values will look very different in the classroom.

Here is what I found on the block design subtest of PRI:
Block design: a pure test of perceptual intelligence, BD is the only PRI subtest that factors heavily w/ overall intelligence. BD will give you a good clue to innate intellectual potential. However, BD is a visual-motor task and peformance may be developmental or related to motor deficiency.

That's why I say you really need the scaled scores to get much info from the testing.
Posted By: indigo Re: How to calculate GAI ? - 09/21/20 07:39 PM
For those still seeking information on the General Ability Index (GAI) and its components, these online documents may be of interest.

Many families find the information on indexes and subtests at wrightslaw helpful:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/tests_measurements.html

Also this Pearson 49-page PDF file, easily found online, "The What, When, and How of the Wechsler General Ability Index" with a quick summary of indexes and subtests on pages 9-12:
http://images.pearsonclinical.com/images/Products/Wechsler/Wechsler_GAI.pdf

Another Pearson document easily found online (14 pages) discusses WISC-IV clinical interpretation and looks in detail at FSIQ, Indexes, Subtests, Items, and Task Components:
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