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Okay-- so. German. DD is applying to some pretty elite colleges (Stanford, MIT, HMC, etc.) and she MUST-must-must-must have foreign language. Not 'dabbling' a year here in one, a year there in another.

She's got over a year of German at this point, and we were set for her to take a second. In fact, we made arrangements for better off-line support in this course already (since 32 hours a year didn't seem like adequate instruction to us)...

but now the school does not have a teacher for this class at all. frown

Options:

a) see what the school comes up with-- though for another student we know enrolled in German I this year, it was apparently "take Digital photography. And ASL. Again."

b) try to get the school to pay for college enrollment-- at local University. (Unlikely, let's just say-- extremely so, in my opinion after nearly a decade with them. The second major problem is that with classes still 6 weeks away-- all that DD can get is a seat on a waiting list for ANY foreign language there).

c) Independent study(???) Obviously this won't be on her transcripts. eek I wonder how much that will matter. But there is no way around the fact that she has NO means of having TWO years of the same foreign language on them at this point. She's taken different languages (if you count ASL), but not more than a year.

d) SAT II subject after independent study.

e) CLEP after independent study.

What would you do-- and why?

I left off one other option--

community ed (non-credit) classes in ASL through local community college.

The problem with ANY of these options is-- how on earth do we make it so that her application isn't "weeded" automatically at the colleges she'll be applying to??
I thought you could get credit with CTY? Check with them and see how much it counts, how they have been used with other students.
THANK YOU-- I know that we looked at EPGY open enrollment at one time, but recall that DD has no IQ scores-- so whatever she enrolls in, it needs to be "open" in that respect.

WHEW! She qualifies at CTY via her PSAT scores, it looks like. YAY! laugh

Not-so-great is that she can't take German with CTY.

In unrelated GOOD news, she can take Precalculus via CTY.

There was a recent thread here about online German courses, I believe it was started by kcab; there was also a recent discussion of same on the well-trained mind forum. Not at home now so too difficult to provide links-sorry.
Thanks-- I'll look for it after I take DD to work.
HK - Whatever you choose to do, find a way to put a note in her common application stating that the high school dropped German her senior year, so she did 'whatever' to continue her German studies. It probably actually doesn't matter too much what she does as long as she does SOMETHING. She is a rising senior, right? So any self study/AP-CLEP option will come to fruition (taking the test) after her admission decisions are complete. She also could possibly take an online course at a college (if you search for "online german classes college credit" some options come up). You would have to pay (but honestly, you would have to pay for CTY too!). You also might just check with the other talent search programs like NUMATS and TIPS to see if they are offering anything, although I think it is unlikely.

The common app changed this year and I am not sure if they still allow this, but previouly there was a section where you could put "additional information". This is just the kind of stuff that goes in there. I would not sweat it too much... my D2 dropped foreign language altogether 2nd semester of jr year due to a scheduling conflict. She self studied and picked up the next year again. Colleges did not seem to care at all.

It could actually work in her favor. Colleges like to see that the kid showed some kind of initiative to go beyond what their high school offers and to get over roadblocks when they occur.
Yeah-- I'm thinking this, as well. If she could take the German SAT II in December (unfortunately, German isn't offered other than in December and June), that might also work in her favor-- particularly if she were to additionally pick up Spanish I and enroll in Spanish II for Winter term at the local CC, too.

I'd love it if she were to CLEP a pair of languages in the spring-- I think that would definitely make her look okay.

Honestly, it's not the end of the world as long as there is a way to make sure that her application isn't DQ'ed automatically by institutions.

In fact, it will improve her class rank somewhat if German II isn't included in her GPA, since it's unweighted. wink

She certainly has plenty of credits to graduate without it.
Posted By: Val Re: Ack! HS dropped a needed class-- what to do? - 08/14/13 03:14 PM
The University of Missouri's online high school offers German. Open enrollment, accredited, cheap.

As for extra help, you could put an ad on Craifslist and hire a tutor for a couple hours (or whatever) per week.
Thank you, Val-- that's exactly what I needed.

There is also a university that does a TON of extension/distance coursework-- Nebraska? Or is it Iowa? Illinois? One of the midwestern states.

I'd love, if she can't get it onto her regular high school transcript (and hey-- she probably can't)-- for her to take a college course here, because that could be a good move strategically for her.
Posted By: Val Re: Ack! HS dropped a needed class-- what to do? - 08/14/13 03:48 PM
The U of Missouri will offer its own transcript (remember, it's an online high school, not a college-level course).

I'm thinking that you're skeptical about your DD's school putting it on her transcript? The public schools around here accept courses from accredited online schools.
Posted By: Val Re: Ack! HS dropped a needed class-- what to do? - 08/14/13 03:49 PM
What about dual enrollment at a community college? Seems reasonable if the school won't offer the course.
Strategically, assuming that she can't get this onto her transcripts either way (meaning, she's going to have a secondary transcript, I mean)--

better to do college course? German? Or a second language?

Or HS second year?

Right-- if she switched to German at the college level, she's about right for a second semester class of German I.

On the other hand, since we're on quarters here, I'd have her start with German 112, or second quarter, German I. For F2F instruction in a classroom, though, that is going to be very problematic, since (local uni) doesn't even have enough seats for THEIR OWN fully-enrolled students. That is also (by far) the most expensive option. Their online course is-- in the opinion of another parent who is reasonably proficient in Swiss German-- is horrible from a teaching standpoint. It has all of the same structural problems that the Connections class has-- amplified by about X3, apparently. So. Wouldn't be my top choice, by any means, as it would probably mean hiring a tutor to help DD through the class, in any event.


The other option is to have her do a different language that she CAN easily get a seat in at the college level-- probably Spanish. Can do that through the CC, and I can take it with her. But I do have some concerns about that looking like dilettantism, as kcab notes.

On the other hand, if she were to continue studying German independently (with said Swiss-German friends and our Czech neighbor who is also fluent) and take the SAT II as well as taking Spanish at the CC, that could look like a legitimately better thing than the second year of HS German on her transcript.

I'm just not sure how she'd fit that all in with everything else she's got going on.





There are some good suggestions above. I think the important thing is to somehow continue German and note on her applications - stuff like this happens a lot. Our district still offers German but dropped Italian a few years ago.

While she is signing up for the German Subject Test, remember to sign up for Math Level 2 and a science Subject Test - MIT requires two Subject Tests - Math 1 or 2 plus a science, and Harvey Mudd requires two, one of which must be Math Level 2. Best to sit for the tests by December (at latest) so the scores will be there with her application.
Deutsche Welle also has some resources for learning German. We've used those as supporting materials.


I'm also feeling somewhat guilty that I caused this to happen by purchasing my very amused DD her very own copy of Der Regenbogenfische the other day. Murphy's law and Irish ancestry, darnit.

I suppose that if she did the Mizzou course, being self-paced means that she COULD, in theory, compress this second year into a third, even. Using her mad PG learning Skilz, I mean. (I'm thinking that isn't a huge stretch for her, actually.)


That would be a positive thing.

ETA: Update from the school is that students who had PREVIOUSLY completed German and are seniors will be permitted to take this class this year. My guess is that means that they'll be hiring someone who will "teach" about four hours a week, which isn't necessarily good news either.

But at least it should put it on her transcript. Might still look into Mizzou's offerings which look higher quality.

Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
...she COULD, in theory, compress this second year into a third, even. Using her mad PG learning Skilz, I mean. (I'm thinking that isn't a huge stretch for her, actually.)


Self-paced plus tutor (for face-to-face), covering two HS years' worth this year, seems like the option best suited to her profile - and also best suited to showing that profile to admissions departments. Would she be far enough in to show it off in an SAT II by the test date?
I'd do whatever you can to get her the actual class and not bank on a test... I passed the French CLEP prior to go into university, but that was after taking french for six years. It was a tough test. None of the other kids I took french in H.S. with passed the CLEP test. (They had all only had 4 years.)
Originally Posted by ljoy
Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
...she COULD, in theory, compress this second year into a third, even. Using her mad PG learning Skilz, I mean. (I'm thinking that isn't a huge stretch for her, actually.)


Self-paced plus tutor (for face-to-face), covering two HS years' worth this year, seems like the option best suited to her profile - and also best suited to showing that profile to admissions departments. Would she be far enough in to show it off in an SAT II by the test date?


The German with listening is in November, and the regular one is in June, so sadly, probably not. Ideal if it were the December date, but I remembered that incorrectly.

I mean, fine for rolling admissions and open admissions timelines, but not so much for HMC, MIT, etc. where the applications are all due on or around Jan 1.
Originally Posted by epoh
I'd do whatever you can to get her the actual class and not bank on a test... I passed the French CLEP prior to go into university, but that was after taking french for six years. It was a tough test. None of the other kids I took french in H.S. with passed the CLEP test. (They had all only had 4 years.)

Great to know. The CLEP tests are a bit uneven as to difficulty-- great to know that the language ones are significantly more difficult than the science/math ones. Thank you for sharing that.

So far I think our plan is to have her TRY the class through the school (at least there will be curricular continuity) and if it seems like a dog with fleas after a few weeks, I'll have her do the Mizzou courses in rapid succession, and she can just do the school-based one as an afterthought thing as she goes along.
You don't have online high schools available there? We have an online high school that offers all kinds of classes here, to the area school districts, and they work with the schools for payment and credits. If the student is attending a regular school but taking certain courses through the e-school, the e-school gets its money from the state funding provided to the regular school, and the student gets regular credit for the courses. If it's supplemental to the regular school schedule, you have to pay for it, but the student still gets extra credits, I believe.
I think what made it difficult for my classmates was that a large portion of the test was hearing conversations between native speakers, then having to answer questions about it. They hadn't really internalized enough of the language to actually follow a conversation held a normal speed. My first 4 years of french instruction were nearly all verbal. We didn't write until the fourth year. Here in Texas all they did was write.. They rarely spoke it or heard the teacher speak it (plus her accent was atrocious!)

A good year of one on one tutoring would probably do it for your dd.
Nautigal, we're with Connections. They take the attitude that if they offer the class, we're stuck with their offerings (as awful or poorly supported as they might be in pragmatic terms) and they won't pay a dime for external ANYTHING.

Local schools won't work with Connections to seat kids for just one class because it's completely uncompensated (can't really blame them, actually).

Puts kids in the middle, though, if they object to, say, only having a "teacher" for 32 hours a year in a foreign language class. I think that it probably goes without saying that if my hunch is correct, we'll see more like 10-12 hours this year in particular. The last teacher was very efficient and very caring-- thus the 32 hours. (About one a week, with a few missing weeks at the end of each semester).

Epoh, I think that DD actually has a VERY good ear. She was picking up conversational French after just a long weekend in the country-- Parisian French, no less, and in overheard conversations. She hasn't ever had enough French that it should have been possible. She also was more than capable of eavesdropping on German tourists throughout the UK and France while we were there, which was sometimes deeply amusing. Okay-- total tangent and adult-swim here, but you should have SEEN how red she turned when she realized just WHAT that couple was speculating about in the Irish National museum as they were looking at breastplate decorations and bronze seals, many of which just... happen.... to be shaped like, er-- well, like "adult" toys. AHEM. whistle Yes, she picked all of that conversation up just fine. (Of course she did...)


Her written skills are not very strong, but her listening and reading skills, not too bad.



Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
Okay-- total tangent and adult-swim here, but you should have SEEN how red she turned when she realized just WHAT that couple was speculating about in the Irish National museum as they were looking at breastplate decorations and bronze seals, many of which just... happen.... to be shaped like, er-- well, like "adult" toys. AHEM. whistle Yes, she picked all of that conversation up just fine. (Of course she did...)

Well now, there's education and then there's education! That was a very good lesson in the usefulness of foreign languages. laugh
I'm sorry it just seems like such a complicated system. I hope you can work it out but I hope our system stays simple.
Would FLVHS work? Obviously not ideal, because it's online, but they're cheap, and would provide a transcript. Just trying to find alternatives to "stuck with Connections."
FLVS has no German but they have Latin.
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