I was just wondering why milestones such as sitting, walking, and rolling over, developing early is a sign of giftedness. I would tend to think that early ability of muscle control, and coordination would be a better indicator of future athletic prowess. So why, if so many of our kids did these things at a younger than usual age, do they then seem to more often lag behind athletically when they get older? Any ideas?

both sons were very delayed with all of these so to me these "milestones" don't mean a thing

My kids didn't have early milestones. Ds6 didn't roll until 8 months - it was so cold in our house putting him on the floor without wrapping him wasn't an option. Ds4 was on the early side but not exceptionally so. Most of the early walkers I have met have been solidly average academically. I do think kids with active involved parents meet milestones early and the parents of gifted kids tend to be active and involved. Ds6 is very competant physically and is >99.9 percentile but using milestones and the ruf levels I assessed him at the 94 to 96 percentile.

Eta. I've checked and ds6 rolled at six months not eight. Also I have been around a lot of just turning three boys today and mine did have more complex talking at that age. Also once ds6 learnt to roll he could get anywhere by rolling.

http://thedailyneuron.com/child-development-early-walker-or-late-walker-of-little-consequence/

My sons followed all of the applicable early milestones, but I don't believe that late milestones can't equal gifted. Same as one or two early milestones doesn't equal gifted.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10106.aspx

According to my mother, I had very early milestones. I am HG+ (or was--middle age seems to be taking its toll).

My older son was average with regard to milestones except for speech. He didn't start talking well until he was 3 or so. He has dyslexia and a slew of other diagnoses and is HGish.

The younger one was fairly typical except for speech, where he was somewhat early (10 months with solid sentences at one year). He is HG+.

Early milestones CAN be associated with giftedness but are not required and do not definitely indicate giftedness.

Motor milestones obviously might be tied to physical giftedness - but I would suggest that advanced comprehension and intention is required in order to make early motor milestones happen.

My HG+ DD hated tummy time, she learned to roll very young in order to get off her tummy, the second you put her on her tummy she'd flip back over. At 4 months old she visibly decided she wanted to cross the room, and instantly changed tactics - the second you put her down she'd flip onto her tummy and start swimming. It took her about a month to master commando crawling. She was a menace in the cupboards from 5 months old. She's low tone and hypermobile, retrospectively it's quite an amazing feat that she could crawl at 5 months old and it was absolutely driven by desire to get somewhere and investigate more than by the need/desire for physical activity. In our OTs assessment there are many things my DD does (monkey bars for example) that simply should not be possible with the body she has, but clearly she is intellectually able to compensate for what does not come naturally and she's very determined.

My iPhone just trashed a considered post I just drafted. Here's the abridged version.

Researchers' Hypothesis: high motivation to move and access novel stimuli is correlated with intelligence, hence early physical milestones as a marker of giftedness.
- My caveat: Perhaps, but for a child to make early physical achievements requires not just the mental will to do so, but also the physical capacity to exercise one's will. There is an innate genetic ceiling here.

My thoughts:
- The subject selection criteria in the early gifted literature was reliant on identifying characteristics such as motivation and achievement alongside intellectual ability. I believe the research suffered from selection bias in choosing only a subset of the gifted population based on temperament, resulting in an over representation of high achieving gifties.
- More recent researchers are cognizant of the disconnect between an achieving temperament and giftedness. As such, inclusion criteria are defined more holistically, and sample populations are larger, so as to account for the fact that the only face of giftedness is not just the classic high achiever.

Anecdotally:
- DH, DS, and I were all the "motivated" sort and had early milestones.
- DS scooted about 3 feet over to me on the bed on his first day wanting to nurse. It was remarkable because babies aren't "supposed" to do that, especially when hypoxic after a traumatic surgical birth and anaesthesia. He was a baby who insisted on standing supported from about 6 weeks onward. He wanted to see the world head-on right away. Never crawled, like his Mum.

Silly idea to make you smile...

My friend has this idea that humans are born with incredible brains, like psychic powers and such, but that all the falls we take as children knocks it out of us. Following that theory, those who meet early physical milestones would be more intelligent. haha.

Anecdotally, my children both were born with incredible neck control, easily trying to look around from the first day. They were both walking at 9 months.

Milestones are meaningless in my 2E house. We threw out all the parenting books early on.

DeeDee

Dd is a preemie. She was slightly delayed till she was 13
month old. But once she took off, she really did take off. However, her eyes shone the minute she was out and continue to this day.

i'll second the motivation thing - our little nutjob rolled over on her 2nd day of life, sat up unassisted somewhere around 4 mos and walked on the first day she ever stood (7 mos). she has always been massively cranky right before a big physical/mental leap - and then would calm down as soon as she mastered whatever it was. for a long time, i thought she was just seriously Type A.

and this is the flakiest, so take it with a grain of salt. i am self-employed - so as i got closer to my due date, i told my clients i'd be available until Feb 1 for regular work, and then day-to-day for quick turnaround jobs only after that. the entire pregnancy i kept saying "not till Feb 1, ok, buddy?" out loud - to my belly. the evening of Feb 1, i shut down my computer at 9pm, made myself dinner and tucked myself in bed. 5 minutes later, i was in labour.

i know it's probably just a very big coincidence - but sometimes it is very hard not to look back on everything and think that she might have been able to understand language, even before birth. i do rather yammer on a lot, as y'all probably know!

Thanks Aquinas. I think this answers my question in the way I was wondering about. I appreciate everyone's anecdotal evidence, though I was looking for the bigger picture. I know that there is a huge range of normal and no one experience proves the rule. I just wondered what the connection was in Ruff LOG with these early very physical traits and intelligence. But it clicks for me hearing that intelligence can, but not always, leads these kids to physically seek more. Thanks.

Ha ha, I love it! Were you also keeping your belly tuned into what day it was? Jk. While I don't subscribe to your child understanding what day to come, I certainly think your body understands that you are ready to relax and that your subconscious has a strong ability to influence your body functions.
As for my own ds, he is strong willed, and sat early right at 4, crawled early at 5, but then walked average just before 12. Looking back, I see how this reflects his temperment more. He is cautious with heights especially, and in physical things ie bike riding, very cautious until he feels confident that he won't fall. He wants to be sure of himself before he tries. Sitting or crawling wouldn't have had that same danger.

hee phey - well, i certainly do talk to myself out loud a lot - since there's no one else around! but yes - i'm really sure my body was much more relaxed knowing i'd finally reached the day i promised.

that completely makes sense about your bean's personality, too - not wanting to walk until he was sure. that seems quite sensible, given how far away the ground suddenly gets when you're that small!

Anytime! I just happened to be reading the sections in Ruf and Gross' books a few days ago that address your question.

Well, can't resist taking his bait. Dd DYS 11 was perhaps mildly advanced to pretty average in terms of early physical milestones. I can't even really comment on ds, because his early months were such a fog for me. I will further say that Ruf's levels were not helpful except as the merest guide. According to Ruf, dd is MG. According to all the tests, she is EG/PG. I get annoyed and snippy when I see the certainty which Ruf claims for her levels.

Our DD8 was tracking moving objects with her eyes in the delivery room, and lifted her head for the first time before we could take her home. The baby development book got thrown in the trash.

Other than crawling/walking, she hit all the other milestones early, too. And crawling/walking were a special case, because we lived in a tiny apartment until she was 13 months old, and kept ourselves and her toys immediately at hand. There wasn't anywhere she needed/wanted to go. Then we moved into a larger place, which included a sizable play room for her, and she went from walking to running within a week. She never crawled until after, when she heard us remarking about how she never crawled before she walked, and she wanted to know what this "crawl" thing meant.

She continues to be advanced athletically at 8, so we're not seeing the phenomenon reported in the OP.

My DS9 was also one of those very, very alert babies.. watching people the day after he was born, and raising his head up to look around. I got told off by a nurse for not "supporting his head"! I was like - what am I supposed to to? Restrain him from moving it? lol. He wasn't particularly advanced in any other physical regard.. sat at 5 months, walked at 11 months.. right within normal range. He did start talking a little early and then his vocabulary absolutely exploded around 1 year. By the time he was 18 months I had to stop counting the words he knew, because it had gotten up over 250 and seemed silly.

Aww. I remember my little babies holding their little heads up. My youngest, though, was incredibly strong. My husband was holding him while looking out the window, and bubs had his one day old head up and turned it to look out, too. That freaked me out a little. My eldest could hold his head up, but not turn it. Both babies were incredibly aware and were looking around at visitors; the nurses at each birth commented that they had never seen a baby so aware. I remember feeling relieved, as both babies had slightly traumatic entrances so I was happy that they weren't affected in any way

My daughter tried to stand up as they weighed her about an hour post birth, kicking against the table. I was out of it a bit but the nurses made a big deal. Other than that and early head lifting, she's not physically advanced. In fact I'm thinking about asking at her new doc about things like low tone or whatever, as she is only now at six getting into bikes and can't do monkey bars... She loves ballet though. She does well out of her sheer concentration, always the good student listening to teacher etc. When she was one she couldn't get up because she only butt scooted instead of crawling and didn't do levels. If she fell on her back she'd call for help (she had about 100 words) but was like a turtle lol.

My son did stuff like sitting and crawling and walking early. He's insanely physically able. He's cautious but can hit and throw and catch and has a great golf swing. He's putting hundreds of hours into sports, whereas DD put them into reading. So we'll see where they each end up. Besides making their feminist mother wryly laugh at their gender roles (DD is defies them, too, but juxtaposed they're pretty hilarious).

If you are interested in speculation, I would guess that timing of physical milestones is related to temperament, environment and parental involvement and the same environmental and parental involvement factors (as well as good overall health) that link SES to IQ probably link SES to early walking. However, there's such a big range of normal for walking (8-20 months) that I'm sure most kids who walk early won't be gifted, and of course you can be a late walker and have a high IQ.

Also, for many typically developing children there is a plateau in language acquisition while the child is learning to walk. Assuming this shows that learning to walk and certain stages of language acquisition are competing processes that can slow each other down, it's possible that gifted children who acquire language more rapidly better clear the way for early walking by reducing this competing process at an earlier age.

My DS6 walked around 10 months- not extremely early- but he pursued it! i used to sit watching him pull himself up again and again until he finally mastered it. I have never seen such will. I honestly think he wanted to go places and get to interesting things. He threw howling fits when he would grab something and we took it away. Now, DS is strong and fast but not particularly coordinated.
He did the same thing when he decided to talk (again, not early 18 month). DS would bring me book after book pointing to every picture and having me name it. During that time he would sit for 3-4 books, and we were reading up to 20 a day. By age two, he went from a bright talker, to extremely advanced.
It wasn't early milestones that had me thinking "gifted" - it was his "drive." Once he becomes interested in knowing/ doing something, he is so passionate. It's a quality that I love dearly, but it can be exasperating.

First, I am not sure that they are a sign of giftedness except perhaps when it is across the board so that your child truly functions as an older child. As to your question, it makes complete sense to me that mastering some basic motor skills at a younger age does not predict future talent in any particular sport. Just because you can run does not mean you can run really fast. Even in cognitive areas, just because you learn to read earlier than someone else does not mean you will read at a more advanced level than that person five years later.

My thoughts are that milestones as a rule don't mean much, but there are some 'signs' that seem to be more common among the gifted, though clearly is not definitive. For example, alertness from the get-go, and some early physical milestones seem to pop up a lot. My first, 3yo, had incredible head control from the beginning - he rolled over average time (3-ish months?) but everything else was early, crawled at 5.5 months, walked at 8.5 months...of course, he didn't talk till after he was 2! My newest, 3 months old, is also exceptionally alert and had the same amazing neck control. he started rolling over at 3 weeks and desperately wants to crawl...and gets clearly frustrated that he can't do much more than move sideways in teeny tiny increments. (I laughed at one of the previous comments about 'swimming'...my son moves around a bit on his back by 'backstroking' as DH and I like to call it!)

It's hard not to compare the 2nd to the first, I'll tell you that...we keep saying, 'he could be average, but that's ok, we'll love him all the same'. still, we can't help but wonder what he will become. (I wonder if this is a full post somewhere...how NOT to compare your child went at least one is gifted. I'll have to look around.)

"My DS6 walked around 10 months- not extremely early- but he pursued it!

He did the same thing when he decided to talk (again, not early 18 month).

By age two, he went from a bright talker, to extremely advanced. "

My DD6 is similar to this: not always early and sometimes slow to milestones, but then WHOOSH! rapid advancement to mastery.

DS4 could stand from birth if you let him hold your index fingers. He didn't use his knees to crawl and started walking (without falling and hitting his head even once) at 8 months. He's certainly an athlete. His teachers all comment on his intelligence, but we've not had him tested.

Is it generally accepted that gifted children struggle athletically?! Because DD doesn't She's advanced in swimming particularly, and was an early bike-rider, monkey-barrer, cartwheeler. Also very good at gymnastics and ballet. I think because she has exceptional listening comprehension, she understands quicker than anyone what she's supposed to do, and her great memory means she can follow all advice at once (rather than say swimming with straight arms but forgetting to kick, or whatever). Plus she loves learning new stuff, whether it's a science experiment or a dance routine or the rules of a team sport.
My guess is that gifted babies are quicker to see the potential benefits of rolling/sitting/crawling, are more observant, better at mimicking, keener to learn to skills, and better at remembering the do's and don'ts from earlier physical attempts
Perhaps the better question should be not why are they physically advanced as babies, but rather why do they stop (if that's not just a misconception)?

Because they tend (not always!) to spend their limited free time on intellectual pursuits, which means they have less time for physical pursuits, and in the end both the intellectual and the physical are as much about the perspiration as the inspiration?

In our family, the PG kids were later in physical mile stones than my 2e son, who is a twin to one of the PGs, but they were all early, sometimes dramatically early on their milestones.

Both twins could hold a bottle at 2 months. My 2E twin would follow me around the house in a walker at 4 months, he walked at 8 months and could run at 10 months. I felt like he was never an infant. He went from newborn to toddler. His PG brother didn't understand the walker until about 6 months, although he figured out a color/shape sorter the first time he tried it at 5 months. He learned to walk at 11 months. Both boys could do hand-over-hand on monkey bars at 3. They signed before age 1, and were great talkers by 18 months, although my 2e boy didn't talk nearly as clearly as my PG boy. My PG boy was reading isolated words by 2 and books at 3 1/2. At 18 months, he could always find a Starbucks for me!

My PG dd walked at 10 months, and could swim before age 2. She was advanced with fine motor skills. She was early with cognitive skills, but not as early as my twin boy.

My 2e son stopped being physically advanced by about 5, but now at 11, he's good again. Both twins are gifted athletes and take their sports seriously.

So, in my family, the only one who's not PG is the one who was super-advanced. I don't know what it means.

My DD10 purposefully tried to use her hands at 6 days old - to push an ultrasound wand off her chest - DH & I didn't bat an eye but the pediatric cardiologist was stunned "did you SEE that? they're not supposed to be able to do that!" (btw, her heart is fine )

She was pretty early with fine motor (drawing faces at 10 months, etc). She could recognize and identify the letters of the alphabet at 16 months although it took her another 10 months before she could write them with a pencil and paper. She was bang-on average with gross motor (except for the 6 day old stunt at the cardiologist's office )

DS wasn't quite as cognitively precocious and had some gross and fine motor delays, although he was interesting when he was three - his fine motor was delayed, but if you put a paintbrush in his hands, suddenly he could demonstrate the fact that he could write and spell a list of basic (3-4 letter) words.

I don't know. I think there are so many areas of development and so many ways that a brain can be configured and so many different types and profiles of giftedness that it can be hard to tie this kind of stuff together.

Neither of my children had early large motor milestones as babies. DD was right on time; DS was delayed, and actually quite seriously. He was in PT for a while and then magically caught up. Now he is the athletic one. Don't ask me.

However, they both smiled very early and were very alert. Despite DS's obvious physical delays, there was never any concern about any other delays. It was very obvious that everything else was in order.

I'm trying to remember what it was that DD did at her 6 month appointment that freaked out the ped--I think the ped said "I'm going to turn off the light and check her eyes" and DD immediately looked up expectantly at the overhead light, like, "Well, okay, lady--do it."

MY DD freaked out my OB doc during my c/section delivery. DD squealed a little as she was pulled out then stopped, stared very intently at the OB doctor and smacked her lips a few times while watching her. For at least a year she was unusually excited when we saw any young Asian woman (like my OB doc) and I started to wonder if she imprinted on her

DD first freaked me out when I set her down in her crib at about 2 months and walked away and she yelled out "MOM". I almost fell on the floor but dismissed it as crazy sleepless mother illusions. She did it quite a few times in the same context though until she started using it with very obvious and specific intent at 5-6 months.

Anyway, thats all totally off topic rambling. I don't really think gross motor milestones have much meaning. My DD was ahead on some and behind on others and will never be a star athlete unless perhaps in swimming or something like that.

Those are amazing stories! 2 months is phenomenally early to be speaking! You sure have a little go-getter.

Don't get me wrong....I still don't know that I believe it myself....but it was quite clear, it wasn't just one sound I pulled out of her crying or cooing, it was said in distress and my sister witnessed it once as well out of the 3 or so times I remember that early. By 5-6 months she said it often in other situations specifically to me, 6-7 she started the dada specifically, 10 months started others and by 12 she had about 25 with a few phrases. I only mention the rest because I only even consider the possibility of the 2 months (?close to 3m) being real because she backed it up with other things as time went on. Who knows...I may be crazy. I admit that I do not mention it to people if I want them to think I am sane. When asked, I generally say she started speaking at 10 months because that was her first word beyond mom and dad. But I also recall her clearly looking at pictures in a specific book at 2.5 months. She was looking intently and moving her head slightly as she moved from picture to picture in the book and laughing every time she got to a certain picture with a dog. She still likes that book.

coveln - my youngest started saying a very clear approximation of Hi or Hello whenever we came to collect her from the cot at a very young age. I haven't documented it, clearly I thought I was crazy, but I remember DH and I having multiple conversations about whether it was real as she did it very consistently very young. I also (stupidly) haven't documented use of Dada or mum/mama. The first record I have of speech for her was saying "Bye Bye" to guests at 7 months (and I've written down who she said it to, clearly thinking I was crazy still). Interestingly she didn't wave goodbye consistently for another 6-7 weeks after speaking it. The next recorded word is "this" at 9 months. Then a receptive language indicator at 16 months, clearly my records are somewhat lacking! At 16 months she heard me ask her older sister to set the table (who did not respond), so she did it, which involved getting plates and cutlery, climbing around on the table and spreading the plates around (I did not note if it was the right number of plates), putting some cutlery (random) with each plate.

coveln, I hear you. DS was speaking early enough that I decided not to tell the paed, lest my sanity be questioned. He never was a performer, least of all at that age.

We stopped discussing DD's early milestones with her pediatrician because we figured as long as she isn't behind, there isn't much to talk about. The cat is out of the bag now since DD can read charts on his wall and asks dozens of questions and when she started naming all the organs and bones during the last visit, he looked at us and said "Medical schools are expensive, mom." I replied, "Well, we'll see how she does in preschool first."

Given how she was as a baby and toddler, I thought for sure her strengths would be related to fine-motor and visual perceptual things. She prefers to type and she is into drawing maps these days so she is progressing nicely but about a week ago, we discovered that she can run like the wind. We've had no clue but apparently, when properly motivated, she can run faster than boys twice her age. I thought she was going to trip and fall but she didn't.

SO always insisted that she was very well coordinated for her age and strong but I thought he was just seeing things because there are better coordinated girls in her gym class and she seemed just so hopeless in her ballet class but it's all coming together for her and I see the spark and in her eyes when her body is in motion. She is also fiercely competitive (to a fault, we're working on this) so she might end up quite athletic just like her father and my father. This is not something I'd have predicted based on her babyhood physical milestones because she was early on some, on-time for most, and late on a few things like jumping. I'm so relieved that I didn't pass my lack of grace to her but she sure took her time to let us know.