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Posted By: deacongirl IAS questions - 04/24/12 02:05 PM
Hi all,
Re: dd skipping 6th grade
So I just really can't spend $50 on IAS now, the library doesn't have it, but was wondering if anyone can tell me what the categories are? Just so I can have an idea before sitting down with school officials. Dd has the IQ and achievement, (unless she blows the schools 7th grade testing or the CRCTs which I doubt). She is very big for her age (95th%), November birthday, she is mature, she wants to do the skip. They did give her some kind of creativity and motivation assessment previously that I don't think she did fabulous on--but a conversation with her would clearly show she is motivated. Is there anything that could raise an objection with the school that I am missing?
Posted By: st pauli girl Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 02:11 PM
There's a nice summary of the IAS here: IAS Book review

Here's an excerpt:
"The sections include general information, critical items, school history, prior ability and achievement test results, prior professional evaluations, academic ability and achievement, school and academic factors, developmental factors, interpersonal skills, attitude and support, and a summary and planning sheet."

Sometimes people here have spare forms. We did not actually get the manual either, but lucked out and got a form from someone on this site who had extras to sell. Does your DD have siblings in the grade she's going into? I do believe the IAS considers that as a deal breaker.

ETA: You could also post on Hoagies Gifted FB page, asking if anyone has extra forms. That page is pretty active.

Posted By: Ultralight Hiker Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 02:43 PM
The school may be willing to buy IAS if they don't have it already.

Yes, $50 is steep for a book. On the other hand, $50 is a bargain if it helps you get the right placement for your dd. I'm sure you could sell it after and recoup some of the cost.

Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ultralight Hiker
The school may be willing to buy IAS if they don't have it already.

Yes, $50 is steep for a book. On the other hand, $50 is a bargain if it helps you get the right placement for your dd. I'm sure you could sell it after and recoup some of the cost.

The school has it, and uses it. I just want my own form before I see how they add it all up!
Posted By: st pauli girl Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 03:06 PM
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Can you simply ask the school if you can just come in and look at it for a bit before your meeting? It's supposed to be a team effort, I think, including the parents, if I remember correctly.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by st pauli girl
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Can you simply ask the school if you can just come in and look at it for a bit before your meeting? It's supposed to be a team effort, I think, including the parents, if I remember correctly.

I know. I guess the middle school principal made me feel like it was adversarial. Like I am a spy secretly gathering info. haha I am a dork. I will ask them. That is a logical approach!
Posted By: SFrog Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 05:45 PM
The IAS pretty much requires that one or both parents be on the committee, so I would think you would be perfectly justified in asking to preview the manual before the meeting.
-S.F.
Posted By: Grinity Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by deacongirl
That is a logical approach!
But really, try not to worry. It's weighted in such a way that a willing kid with high IQ scores and no sibling in the receiving grade can be an excellent candidate or a good candidate.

It actually pretty funny when you see it (but don't laugh) as in - IQ in top 1% is worth 500 points
- able to hold her own in gym class - half a point.
- tall for age - half a point.

It's as if someone took all the familiar myths and gave them a half point so that the schoolies could say that the considered all the social-emotional questions.

Smiles,
Grinity
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 07:48 PM
That is pretty funny--she may lose a 1/2 pt. for the gym question, but I don't think that will improve with age~

So what EXACTLY do I say I want to look at? The manual? What is the form where you add up the points called? just want to look I have my act together!

Thanks everyone.
Posted By: Grinity Re: IAS questions - 04/24/12 09:03 PM
If my giggle allows you to leave it be - comfortably - then leave it be. If not, ask them for the manual. But really - they want to be the big shots, and the Scale is so good, why not let them?

Trust your gut,
Grinity
Posted By: geofizz Re: IAS questions - 04/25/12 01:09 AM
The manual is pretty much just a few examples, going through each question with the points. Along with the manual comes blank forms. You could make use of either. I'd probably ask for the manual if I were you -- that is what gives you the sense of how to use it and how it's used. Both are pretty self-explanitory.

IIRC, IQ + Achievement is a minimum of half the points necessary for an OK candidate for a skip. For the rest of what you've described, you easily are in the category of OK candidatem and quite possibly to the level of "excellent" candidate.
Posted By: SFrog Re: IAS questions - 04/25/12 01:45 PM
Ask for the manual. The manual has filled out sample forms in it, so looking through the manual will let you see the forms as well.
-S.F.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/02/12 08:47 PM
I decided to chill out about asking for the manual. I need to not appear like the totally high-maintenance mom with dd5 getting ready to enter kindy at the same school. And, it seems pretty clear that the results should indicate a skip. We shall see! Thanks for the feedback!
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 12:22 AM
So I lied about chilling out! The mtg. is scheduled for the 24th, and I asked for a copy of the IAS (or the worksheet) and the results of the 7th grade tests--this was the response:
"I spoke with (gifted district coordinator) about your requests. The meeting on the 24th is designed to review everything you're requesting. You will receive a copy of all test data as well as the IAS at the meeting. You will be able to walk away with everything. The IAS form is not complete and will not be completed until the testing is done. I believe Ms. xxx pulled xxx for the remainder of testing today."

So, I don't think it really matters, because I am sure that when they add up the points she will be a good candidate for a skip. The only thing that concerns me is math. I just don't like surprises! But I think I will let it slide and try to just wait patiently until next week.
Posted By: DeeDee Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 12:28 AM
That's typical here too. It's very rare I can get any paperwork before the meeting. They'll probably read it aloud to you at the meeting...

I got my IAS copy (the manual) via ILL. Only wish I still had it for you.

DeeDee
Posted By: CAMom Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 01:38 AM
That's kind of annoying though- the IAS is intended to be completed as a team, including the parents. It sounds as though they are doing it without you and intend to hand you a completed form.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by CAMom
That's kind of annoying though- the IAS is intended to be completed as a team, including the parents. It sounds as though they are doing it without you and intend to hand you a completed form.
yeah--but, if there is something I disagree with, I am not shy! She just got a very high score with positive comments on her gifted project. I am thinking the 5th grade classroom teacher and elementary gifted teacher will be supportive. I suspect the middle school guidance counselor and 7th grade teacher will be there to tell me that it will be too hard for her and that the 6th grade will be challenging enough. I am interested to see what the numbers show.
Posted By: Grinity Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 11:15 AM
It sounds to me like they are attempting to do it as a team. Honestly most of the parents that schools deal with would find the manual intimidating so they are probably trying to be kind in a patronizing way.

What I got from reading the manual was finally understanding the difference between IQ tests, achievement tests and above level achievement test which they classified as aptitude tests. If you have that straight I think you'll do fine with the rest.

The stumbling block at our local elementary was 'well yes he is a good candidate for ordinary schools but our disctrict is so far above ordinary that how can a tool developed for ordinary schools be applied to it?' OTOH now that I see where the ADHD was a factor I understand better their trepidation. Not that I agree but I understand.

Love and more love
Grinity
Posted By: geofizz Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 11:21 AM
Our school pre-filled out the points for the IQ and achievement section. The total points were presented to me without explanation, and the page describing how to assign the points were not presented to me. We did the rest together.

Because they came out with 6 more points than I would have given DS, I didn't comment. I felt there was a 2 point wiggle room on that section, so I was prepared to discuss it had it come out in the lower of the two options.

In the end, it became clear that the school felt like they needed to talk me into the skip and out of the massive subject acceleration. wink
Posted By: DeeDee Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Grinity
The stumbling block at our local elementary was 'well yes he is a good candidate for ordinary schools but our disctrict is so far above ordinary that how can a tool developed for ordinary schools be applied to it?'

"Here, all the children are above average."

:-)

DeeDee
Posted By: herenow Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 12:29 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but just wondering if there is a section in the IAS for executive function. With a skip from 5th to 7th, I would imagine all that remembering of papers, assignments, and the ilk could be a major stumbling block for a lot of gs kids, no matter how advanced/high IQ.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by DeeDee
Originally Posted by Grinity
The stumbling block at our local elementary was 'well yes he is a good candidate for ordinary schools but our disctrict is so far above ordinary that how can a tool developed for ordinary schools be applied to it?'

"Here, all the children are above average."

:-)

DeeDee

Yup! This is what I anticipate the middle school folks saying--thankfully it isn't their call!
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by herenow
Not to hijack the thread, but just wondering if there is a section in the IAS for executive function. With a skip from 5th to 7th, I would imagine all that remembering of papers, assignments, and the ilk could be a major stumbling block for a lot of gs kids, no matter how advanced/high IQ.

This was the reason it took me so long to come around for asking for the skip--but the IAS actually encourages skipping 6th as opposed to 5th, because in 5th they are getting the preparation for that stuff (here they change classes and have 4 different teachers in 5th). Thankfully she seems to take after her (German, detail oriented) father in regards to EF--I think it will be challenging, but I also think she is capable of doing it. FWIW I also think her Montessori school did a good job of preparing her to be responsible for her learning, keep track, organize, goal set, etc.
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 06:38 PM
Well, it looks like it will all be fine--just spoke to asst. principal and he seemed to feel very confident that she would be a good candidate for a skip. At field day today I chatted with her classroom/math teacher and even though we didn't specifically talk about the skip it seems like she would be extremely supportive of it based on her comments. Her oldest dd also went to my alma mater, and she said my dd reminds her a lot of her youngest. She seems to get my dd and also spoke very highly of the high school and even though there are some negative stereotypes (hypercompetitive, driven, spoiled kids) her kids had a great experience there and found their niche and she thinks my dd will do very well there. So, feeling good about the meeting! The level of math might be the stumbling block but other than that we should be in good shape!
Posted By: Grinity Re: IAS questions - 05/17/12 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by deacongirl
So, feeling good about the meeting!
That's music to my ears (eyes? eyeball? earballs?)
Well music anyway!

What's with Math? Do you wanna brainstorm some ways to spend some summer time catching up in Math?

Smiles,
Grinity
Posted By: deacongirl Re: IAS questions - 05/18/12 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by Grinity
Originally Posted by deacongirl
So, feeling good about the meeting!
That's music to my ears (eyes? eyeball? earballs?)
Well music anyway!

What's with Math? Do you wanna brainstorm some ways to spend some summer time catching up in Math?

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity!
Well, I managed to get a look at the IAS, and I came up with 68 points (conservatively) and I think 60-80=excellent candidate for a skip.

I am going to start a new thread about the math issue. I am concerned that they might not want to put her in 7th grade honors math, but regular 7th grade math, which I think would move too slow for her. But, she probably needs to do something over the summer so I will start a thread specific to math.

I appreciate the encouragement!
Posted By: herenow Re: IAS questions - 05/19/12 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by deacongirl
[quote=herenow]Thankfully she seems to take after her (German, detail oriented) father in regards to EF--I think it will be challenging, but I also think she is capable of doing it. FWIW I also think her Montessori school did a good job of preparing her to be responsible for her learning, keep track, organize, goal set, etc.

That's good. My dd also attended Montessori before her skip and the EF "training" she had there was valuable.
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