D (age 16) and I met with her school principal today to advocate for allowing her to take a Gifted Learning Works AP English course instead of the normal 11th grade English class for second semester. They only offer one level of English class (no honors, no AP) for her whole grade. This wasn't a problem in 9th and 10th grade due to truly talented teachers who manage to differentiate successfully within their classrom. But this year has been a disaster, and D has been dismal. The worst day was when they read "The Raven" by Poe -- she went off to class very excited to be discussing one of her favorite authors. The teacher put on an episode of "The Simpsons" where they recite some of the Raven, and that was it. No class discussion or analysis.

Can't tell the outcome yet, but I was very proud of D's self advocacy, which has not been a strong suit in the past. The principal commented that he understood her need to feed her intellect (which was a good sign -- he is also very bright, so I do think he really "got" that component). Still not sure he will allow it, as they have a policy for not accepting outside credit. And he is going to talk to the English teacher -- although D and I did meet with her before with exactly the same list of complaints (on paper, written by D) that she showed him today. I told him I though this year's English teacher was not exactly a disinterested party in helping make this decision for D (implying that her poor teaching is one reason we are seeking a change), and asked him to also talk to her English teacher from last year for a more balanced view.

Sigh... we will see.

Good for your DD. How disheartening for her to have hopes of discussion of her favorite author dashed.

I hope the principal heard you when you asked him to seek out a disinterested party to aid in the decision-making process.

Wow... got our response today. D's requests were completely smacked down. No AP class allowed since it is "outside credit" (never mind that it is clearly a higher quality curriculum than they are offering). Not even the option of moving to 12th grade English, another option D put on the table.

The principal talked about her "disdain" for the curriculum and her classmates in his response. She was working hard not to sound that way in her presentation to the teacher and principal, but the teacher has picked up the vibe in the classroom that D is frustrated with the low quality of discussion (and honestly, the teacher's inability to keep a discussion moving forward productively). The principal said that she is "not listening" to her classmates -- I think she has been listening very well, and is tired of superficial, repetitive comments that the teacher allows to dominate the discussion. Sigh...

So his suggestion is that she meet with the teacher before the next quarter starts (on a block quarter schedule, so she does not have English right now) and they can talk about how D can do extra work in the class. Given the huge volume of busywork in the class, this is not something D wants to do. Plus, this teacher's regular assignments are just a bit off... they just don't make a lot of sense sometimes. D is not interested in more assignments from this teacher.

In the past I have defended the school as a pretty good option for gifted kids. They have the bullying issue well under control, and class sizes are small. They do send some kids to very good colleges. But after this and a couple of other experiences over the last two of years, I can't really support them in that way any more. D is a junior (and tuition is paid for this year), so there probably is no changing schools at this point. Sooo frustrating.

I have asked for a meeting (without D) with the principal, and may ask our Davidson contact for DYS to call him. (He had never heard of Davidson, I mentioned them when I told them that they helped us pick out this AP option for D.). I am pretty sure that the best we can hope for now is to get D transferred to the other teacher who is teaching 11th grade English this year (new teacher to the school, teaching the same curriculum as it is her first year). But my kid says she has heard that the other teacher has better classroom control.

Arrggghhh.....

Just curious, why on earth aren't they offering AP English to juniors? There are 2 English AP exams, and the kids typically either have to get a 5 on one, or a 4 on both to get the full college credit. Unless something has changed since I took the tests (granted, it's been about 14yrs!)

I am sorry the teacher/school isn't being helpful. Your DD is learning a sad lesson - most people she comes across are not going to be as intelligent or insightful as she is. Dealing with those folks is something you just have to learn how to do... They are often your superiors in life.

Smallish school (only about 60 kids per graduating class). They offer a few APs (for seniors only). And they are kind of snobby about what they consider to be the high quality of their English program. They prefer to think that the kids get more out of going in-depth vs. the fast pace AP classes require. The 9th and 10th grade English teachers are exceptional, and manage to pull off in-depth AND pretty fast paced. This 11th grade teacher is just not of the same caliber. The school does offer honors classes in math & sciences. But not English or Social Studies.

Honestly, this is sort of the story of D's life (and many gifted kids), that she is ready to go at a faster pace and is frustrated when the group around her and the teacher are moving more slowly. It happens almost every year in almost every class, so it is not a new experience for her. But this year she sort of snapped. She LOVES English, and was so miserable that she decided to speak up. I didn't discourage her; there are situations in life when you have to put up with this, but I don't see why this should be one of them. Now she is still frustrated, and angry, and embarrassed to have drawn the attention to herself on top of that.

It is a K-12 school, and she has been there since K. I am sorry now that we did not consider moving her to one of the larger private schools in town with more extensive course offerings when she hit high school (or even at the beginning of this year).

The abilities of schools to destroy enthusiasm for learning never ceases to amaze me. The Simpsons? Seriously?

I'm also feeling somewhat bummed out right now for similar reasons. My son is in a glacially-paced geometry class and the school allowed him to study independently about two months into the year. I waited three weeks to get an answer from his teacher (including one blown-off appointment on her part) about what she expected from him. She finally told me that he'd have to take all the tests and quizzes with the other kids and that his grade would be based "solely on tests and quizzes." Fine. Works for us. My son is finally enthusiastic about math again and got a 99% on the final.

But she changed her mind about how she was going to grade him and added in his marks for homework and participation early in the grading period. He apparently hadn't participated enough and had a D when he changed to independent study. She froze his mark there, told me only tests and quizzes would count, and doesn't seem to want to offer a way for him to improve it. Grr. I asked her if she could reconsider and haven't heard a word. No surprises there. So tomorrow I'll have to try to deal with this in person with her and/or the principal.

This would not be a big deal but for the fact that it's going to keep him from getting an A (he's one point away now) and may also keep him off the high honor roll. He really wanted this and it's going to really hurt him.

This is the same teacher who once announced that there's no such thing as a "mathy mind."

I am just so tired of dealing with teachers who are clueless about smart kids, spout misinformation, are not educated in the subjects they teach, and are smug in their ignorance. Too many teachers and administrators are this way --- yet they expect everyone to treat them like "professionals" in spite of the fact that so many of them clearly are not. News flash: being a professional means doing your job well, sticking to your promises, not blowing people off, and doing your best to ensure that you aren't repeating misinformation, among other things. It is not an honor forever bestowed because you have an M.Ed.

People may find this remark offensive, but the fact is that it's true, and is moreover an elephant in the room of education. No one is allowed to say this stuff out loud without getting blasted for "bashing teachers." Yet they and their principals are allowed to bash us and our kids every day when they parrot edu-dogma like "there's no such thing as a mathy mind," "there's no such thing as talent," or "they all even out by third grade."


Arrrgggghhhh indeed.

If I were in that meeting, I'd have said the meeting jumped the shark the moment they spouted that last sentence, because they clearly don't understand the nature of AP English, or they'd have never said it.

I had AP English all four years of high school, and fast-paced it was not. The only part that seemed fast was when you had to keep up with nightly reading assignments, but then again, all you had to do was come into class the next day, keep your mouth shut for the first ten minutes of classroom discussion, and you'd be up to speed and participating in said discussion. Who needs Cliff's Notes when you're talking about the reading each morning in-depth? And that's assuming that the given literature was unappealing, because otherwise, a real gifted student would be reading ahead for enjoyment.

And it sounds like they got it wrong for your DD's issue, because she showed up ready to talk about Poe in-depth, but the teacher rushed right on past him and on to other topics. What she wants is in-depth, and one place she can get that is AP.

Wow, that is just awful! The Simpsons? Really, why wouldn't she show a little disdain for that?! The principal should be livid that that was the extent of the EAP lesson!

I am so sorry for your dd. I hope you can convince them to let her change classes at least. And as far as in-depth vs fast paced, I agree with Dude, it sounds to me like your daughter is actually craving the in-depth but not getting even standard depth.

My dd13, who also loves English, is similarly frustrated this year and, I'm sure, coming off as distainful as well. She's actually in a pre-AP English class but having group tests and projects with kids whose work ethic or depth is poor is extremely frustrating to her. She's basically doing most of the group projects herself at this point and studying all of the material for group tests even though she's only responsible for her section of it b/c she has had some bad outcomes when she's relied on the other kids to do their part.

It does seem that teachers are loathe to admit or recognize that there are different needs within their classes and, when kids complain about the level of discussion or the work of their peers, they are assumed to be wrong and arrogant. I've gotten the distinct impression that some of my dd's teachers view it as their job to teach dd that all of the other kids are equally capable whether that is accurate or not.

I really wouldn't have said before that dd was arrogant. She's centered (knows who she is) but doesn't condescend or look down on others. I actually feel like some of the way her schooling is going this year has contributed to making her appear arrogant b/c they are forcing her into situations where she is resentful and banging her head against a wall.

I'm sorry that your dd and so many of our other kids here seem to be in the same spot.

I'm sorry to hear that the school isn't supportive or your DD's desire to learn. In high school, I was always in "honors language arts" since we did not have AP English. Somehow there were always 5-6 sections of honors each year (30-35 students in each, out of about 750 in my grade) so 'challenging' books and plays often met fierce resistance from my classmates.

I think I singlehandedly supported the Barnes & Noble Classics collection during those years as I read whenever I had a spare minute before, after, or during class. Even if your DD has to find reading material at her level on her own, the vocabulary and style she finds in those books will help her become a better writer and a faster reader than the rest of her class (and being able to read the questions, stories, and textbooks she encounters very quickly will definitely help on SAT/ACT and in college classes). The situation is obviously not ideal, but as long as she finds reading on her own enjoyable, it can help her get through this year.

I almost forgot to add that if she hasn't already, taking the time to study a little mythology and the hero's quest can be very helpful for learning to analyze literature for symbols and patterns.

She loves mythology, and has read it extensively already (she owns the Quiz Bowl questions in that area ).

I contacted the principal last night, and asked to meet with him today. Just got home from an hour long discussion with him. He actually is a pretty good guy (which I knew). The door is open a crack on the option of the AP class again when I explained why I thought it was a better option for her than the regular English class. It was a good experience for D to advocate for herself, but there are just some things a parent is more able to articulate and argue for in this situation. We also had a good conversation about the opportunities schools have with today's technology to teach to an asynchronous class (or child), and that this was an example of a way to do that (the online AP class). He was open to that discussion at least. And... he really couldn't/wouldn't defend the use of the Simpsons. So I am glad I went.

We left it that (1) he agreed to talk to our DYS contact person about acceleration (with not much hope that he will change his mind, though), and (2) that we will look into changing her schedule to fit into the other teacher's class (again, he is not committing for sure, but offered to see what is needed). One thing we know is that she will need to drop back the lower level French class for 2nd semester (which she already took last year), but he thought with some tutoring she could still be ready for AP French next year. We already pay for French tutoring (one of those asynchronous areas, she has zero natural talent for it), so that wouldn't be a hardship.

So still hoping for AP, but fallback is a change in teachers. Will keep you posted!

I'm not sure I understand the push for AP French if she's already struggling in it.

Oh, she hates French. And aspires to never take it again once she graduates from high school. So AP French is an opportunity to place out of college French, since most of the LACs she is looking at have a language requirement for graduation.

The French CLEP exam might be easier than the AP exam. I was able to CLEP out of two semesters of college French and I was never that great at it. Most of the test was listening to someone speak French then answer questions about the content.

Do you write the answers to the CLEP, or speak them? She is very good at speaking, not so good at writing in French.

It's been quite a while, but I believe it was multiple choice from a booklet. I don't recall if I had to speak any. I do remember being relieved that I didn't have to write any sort of essay or anything.

Our DYS family consultant sent the principal an email today to start a conversation. No idea if it will help, but maybe...

I am getting depressed. I haven't heard back from the principal, and I know tomorrow is the last day he is working before taking off the rest of the year. He knows that D has to be registered for the AP class by Jan. 1 to take it in place of next semester's English. I think he is waiting until the last day possible, then he is going to drop another "no" on us and escape for the holidays. Probably at 4:55 pm tomorrow.

D got her PSAT scores back, and nailed the critical reading (80, no questions missed). This class is just such a waste of her time.

Her older sister and I were talking, and we were discussing that most of the good English students at their school are girls. Sister said that maybe that is why the school has never dealt with this issue of no honors classes -- lots of the girls are unhappy (she was), but no one wants to rock the boat and cause a conflict. Kudos to D2 for being willing to speak up, but I suspect it will be wasted effort. Wish I had transferred her to another private school across town this year in spite of the nasty commute.

I suggest you call the principal (or go his office). You need to be in the driver's seat here, not the other way round.

I spent over an hour in his office last week (after he turned down D's request). He agreed to reconsider. He already had the specific syllabus for the class D wants to take, and I sent along the college board course description after we met. He also agreed to talk with our DYS Family Consultant. She emailed him Monday morning, but she had not heard back from him by end of day yesterday. I sent her the PSAT info so she could bring this into her conversation with him.

I don't think any more calling or going to his office is going to make a difference.

I was talking with my mom yesterday, and she was at a funeral this weekend where she ran into an acquaintance of ours who is the assistant director of admissions at that private school across town (the one with the horrible commute for us). D has a friend at that school who is also PG (they met through a CTY website for gifted kids); when my mom mentioned the friend's name, the woman at this school said: "Oh, she has outstripped all the English curriculum we have. She is doing independent study with one of our English teachers this year because she is beyond what we offer in the regular classroom.". Just kicking myself for not seeing this coming this year and making a switch to that school at the beginning of the year.

Could she transfer to the private school in January?

She is in a private school now, and we have paid tuition for the year (lots of tuition). Essentially we can't get it back... and can't afford to pay for the second school without getting it back. Also, she has been at this school (K-12) since K (and her older sister graduated from it), so we have been affiliated with the school for 17 years. It would be a big step to give up on them and arrange a transfer mid-year. And I hate to have her transfer at the start of next year (senior year), and not graduate with her friends.

Ouch. I'm so sorry that something that should be so easy has to be so difficult.

My best advice is to call the guy tomorrow. Maybe he's got a lot to do and this one fell by the wayside, and your reminder could help. If he's avoiding the issue, you'll make it harder for him to keep avoiding it, and maybe force a decision. The worst that can happen is that nothing will change, so you don't have much to lose (unless there are other factors here).

There's always the emotion card: "My daughter is desperately unhappy and in need of what the AP class could offer, and I'm confused about why the school wants to make her remain so unhappy."

Don't kick yourself. You're doing your best. We all are, and we don't always get our desired outcomes because there's no roadmap, no instruction manual, and no playbook full of cool moves. For the most part, we're all just feeling our way in the dimness. A lot of people here have talked about finding the "least-worst option" as they strive to find an educational environment for their children. They have a really good point. How much can you realistically expect to accomplish (and how much blame should you dump on yourself) if the best you can hope for is somewhat less horrible than all your other choices?

Thanks, Val. My D is desparately unhappy, but one of the things he said when I met with him was that she didn't seem to be in enough "emotional distress" for him to allow this (or even transfer her to the other teacher's classroom with the same curriculum). That is so frustrating, as she was working very hard to keep her cool and be professional in her discussion with both the teacher and him. She is not a kid who wears her emotions on her sleeve to start with, and is a little bit Aspie. She knows she isn't good at "people", so she was treading very carefully in this discussion. Maybe too carefully. I know a couple of stories over the years of kids who have left school for a few weeks for psychiatric treatment and then come back -- is that what it takes to get even a classroom change? Arggghhh...

I would say this to the principal.

I did tell him... he didn't seem to believe me. Still no word today, although I pinged him when I found out he hadn't called our Davidson family consultant yet. He said he get her email, and he would call her. I got the impression he is working tomorrow, so assume he will give a response then.

Then you've done everything you could and you don't need to blame yourself.

Your daughter knows that you've been sticking up for her and doing everything you can to help her. Ultimately, this will be far more important to her intellectual and emotional development than a few more months in a class she doesn't like.

For now, if I may, I suggest that you both forget the problem for a while and enjoy the vacation!

Thanks for the kind words! You are right that D knows I've got her back, and have done everything I can for her regardless of how it turns out. We should know either way tomorrow.

Yeah, my DD6 is miserable in school, does everything she can to hold it together for the school day, and then melts down when she gets home. Her demonstrations at home were becoming a real concern, because she started saying things like, "I wish I was dead."

So here are some things we've been doing to ensure the school gets the message of just how unhappy she truly is:

- I wrote an email to the principal and her teachers detailing her recent behavior at home, where it's coming from.

- We had a meeting at the school, and requested the school counselor begin meeting with her. This gives my DD an opportunity to share how she really feels with someone on staff.

- We enlisted a private psychologist with experience with gifted kids. He immediately had a suggestion we could take back to the school that we weren't even aware was an available option.

All of this is still ongoing, and we have another meeting in January, so I can't report on any results... but at least you can take these as suggestions for your own DD's situation.

I am absolutely furious today. The principal never called our DYS family consultant. She emailed me yesterday saying she was leaving a bit early, hadn't ever heard from him. I sent him one more email letting him know that. Never heard back from him, and when she left at mid-afternoon she emailed to let me know she never heard from him. The Davidson office is closed next week, so he now can't talk to them. He said he would call when I asked him to ("Of course" were his exact words), he got the email last Friday from her (over a week ago), I reminded him mid-week (and he said "I will contact her"). And he didn't do it. He was in the office for four days and school was not in session this week... how did he not get this done?!?

D has not asked about the outcome (she is at her dad's this week, but we do email). I expect she will ask today via email or when she gets home tonight. She is no dummy (ha! This group surely appreciates that!). She will know that no answer means no hope that she will get to take the AP class.

I will keep this low key (and a little positive spin, maybe he is still considering allowing her to change teachers). But I have moved from "don't want D to change schools for her senior year" to looking at other education options for her next year. I will take D's lead (in fact, will probably wait until she suggests it before bringing it up), but I am checking on her options at other schools, our state's PSEO (college class) program, and even Davidson Academy (I think the deadline for residential applications was Dec 1, but since she has been very successful at THINK and they know about this issue, maybe they would still consider her).

Unless something new comes from him today (very unlikely), I am going to set it aside and not stew about it for obvious reasons until Monday.

I'm sorry. That really sucks. You'd think that schools would care more about meeting the needs of kids if for no other reason than for keeping the $ that comes with the students. Let us know what your dd decides.

That is your answer. The principal clearly has an appendage issue. Its a shame the other girls in the past and to date have clearly suffered as a result.

You can stand on his desk with a burdizzo or move your DD.

And then send him a letter from your lawyer with a CC to the BOD stating that you moved for cause, why you moved, what the anecdotal survey of the other young women has said, and then let the chips fall where they may.

I'd also follow up with a demand letter for a refund of tuition to this date and a change in the lit program as well - or you will sue for damages.

It would not be a good thing for people to find out a private school is run by a sexist pig.



I had AP Humanities the last year and Honors Humanities the 11th grade. It was fast paced. We covered the normal AP English and a lot of history. It was a lot of fun.


DOH!


Ahh, that is just wrong. The Normans (and the Romans) had a huge influence on English long before 1066. English has German roots so most of its Old English words end in harsh consonants. The French (and Roman) influence softened English by giving it words with soft and long dipthongs and tripthongs. We would not have had Byron nor Yeats nor Houseman nor Shakespeare without the the French.



DOH!

Mmm... probably not doing most of those suggestions. I did check this morning on her tuition insurance policy terms, as we have always purchased tuition insurance at her private school. More in case my kids got sick and had to drop than for any other reason. I checked the policy today, and found that we could get 60% of the remaining pro-rated tuition back if we choose to move her now. Her quarter is over on January 13. Was checking the "school across town"'s academic calendar, but can't tell when their semester ends -- it is not on their online calendar. They are closed for break, but I know another parent there that I may see at a sports activity on Monday night. Or I can call her. So I will explore that (without telling D) and think about the financial side. Might be able to swing it if we get 60% of the tuition back.

Just checked, and both of the two other possible private school options have their semester ending before winter break (so last week), while D's school goes until January 13. That makes it very difficult to move her mid-year, as she has two weeks to go in her first semester classes. Rats.

Possibly. But honestly quite difficult to accomplish a transition over winter break when all the school offices are closed, and their new semesters all start January 3.

Just when I thought I could not get any angrier with the school and the principal over this... I emailed him today and asked him for an explanation for not contacting our Davidson consultant. Specifically, I asked why he had not kept his word, and said it appeared to me that either he could not be bothered or that he had intentionally waited so he would not talk to her until after it was too late to register D for the AP class. I also told him about her PSAT scores (in case he didn't know), and suggested that there is a sexist result to their non-differentiation policy (even if it is not intentional). I can name four boys who have received acceleration in math beyond the honors math track (and at least they have an honors track) just in her grade of 50 kids alone if there is any question about this. I also told him we are discussing options for a school change for her.

He replied that he has now left our DYS person a voice mail, and that "...while I know you feel the time pressure to enroll in an online course, my decision process is not contingent on that timetable and I do not anticipate any change to the decision I shared with you and 'D' before break." Wow. Just...wow.

D is mulling over the school change idea, but is wary of a change at mid-year. But she is also very unhappy with his response.

A further complication: as principal, he will have to write her recommendation as a National Merit Scholar. AND, shortly before break, he asked her to help him with a history research project (something personal, he had asked a teacher for advice on a student who could help him, and the teacher had recommneded D). So now she is stuck with this project she is supposed to do for him. I told her that she better complete it, as he will be writing that recommendation if she stays. She is, to say the least, not inclined to help him.

Once again, arrggghhh! What is wrong with these people?

An update... D (mumbling under her breath in protest) completed the history research project for the principal and emailed her results. I was proud of her for taking the high road and keeping her word.

A couple of days after school started after the break, he emailed and said he was not going to let D out of the class (a "required" class in a "required sequence"). He had talked to our DYS consultant, but only to ask about D's THINK experience (apparently he had NO interest in the topic of accleration research or what other schools do to help students who need something additional beyond the normal classroom offerings).

I emailed him back and asked if he could at least let her move to the other teacher's section (only of small benefit, as the curriculum is the same... but I think the teacher does at least keep the classroom discussions moving). I guess I finally wore him down, because he agreed to a schedule change for her. However, we need to work out the details next week, and it may be hard to accomplish because they are a small school with only a few sections of the honors classes they do offer.

So... a very small concession on the part of the school was achieved.

Sigh. The saga continues. The only way D can take the other section of English is to drop French V next quarter. She could self study in French (she already has a tutor, and will have a free block). So we are trying to decide whether this is worth doing. I am leaning toward it... she will still take AP French next year. She is not enjoying French class anyway this year. I feel like I would have a MUCH happier kid if she self studied French and had a different section of English class. So the last piece of the puzzle is to talk with the tutor about this plan (she is out at a conference for a few days).

Then... I get an email from the principal tonight telling me what a TERRIBLE idea this is. How D is "leaving a difficult situation without working through it with the teacher". Uh... this is the teacher who didn't want to work with D or me one bit last semester on this issue. Also he is worried about how a midyear schedule change will need to be explained to colleges (seems easy to me, she switched to a section with more in depth discussion and option for some more rigorous assignments). I sort of wonder if he is worried that we will spill the beans to colleges about the awful quality of the 11th grade English class at this school...which probably won't happen, as D keep a positive spin on it in her application.

Unless she is planning on majoring in French, I'd go with the self-study option for that and get into the better English class.

With the scores I imagine she'll have to send off to colleges they aren't going to care about switching 1 class during 1 year of H.S.

Go with the mom gut - Happiness isn't the first priority, but it's a great guide! I don't buy the Principle's argument, either about the 'working it out' or the 'looking good to colleges.' Don't worry about the Principle email, it's just last minute venting....He/She probably can't believe he or she agreed to the teacher switch.

Go with the gut and good luck!
Grinity

It is dropping French V next quarter that she will need to explain. And since it is because of the English class switch, that might need to be discussed.

She really can't take the AP French exam this spring. French is her worst subject (she got a B this last quarter, her only grade below an A-). The irony of this is not lost on her... she looked at me incredulously when I told her what the option was, and said "Wait... they won't let me move ahead and take an AP class in the subject I am best at, but they will let me self study in my weakest subject? What is wrong with these people?". I have no answer...

I am not worried about her recommendations. She will have a great one from her history teacher, her chem teacher would write her a good one, and her 10th grade English teacher will write her a great one (although he is ill, so not sure he will be back next year... but if he is, she will surely take one of his senior English classes as well). You really can't use THINK recommendations for college, that is just a 3 week summer experience; most colleges are quite specific about wanting them from your high school teachers (they will usually accept an extra one or two in addition to the required ones, but they don't want to be flooded with them).

I did call the school guidance counselor yesterday to chat about this. She said if D was applying to Ivies, skipping a semester of French V might cause a hiccup -- there are just soooo many qualified applicants, you don't want to stand out for something like this. But D is looking more at LACs (a couple top 10, some a bit lower ranked). And I just don't think it is worth having a miserable kid for the rest of this year for the sake of appearances for colleges.

I have lost tracked who i am agreeing with or disagreeing with - posters and guidance counselor - tried to quote and lost it - sigh

So - short summary - counselor is wrong about anyone caring about the dropping or keeping - so long as she takes the AP and gets a 4 or better. If she didn't take the AP then it wold look like she dropped it to not get penalized for the smidge lower grade. So long as she is taking the AP class and keeping the tutor so she doesn't lose the skills, drop it and take the English. The ivies and the lacs are MUCH more interested in passion and commitment to something - showing that you aren't helicoptered to death and or doing just what it takes to get in -- but truly determining a path for yourself.

I would also recommend taking a summer course in it if she can so that she's in a good place for the AP class.

Guidance counselors need to rationalize all sorts of unrationizable decision making. The ivies and the lacs get way more top grades, great scores than they can take. They take athletes, legacies, artists, all sorts of people to make their class interesting and well rounded. What will get your daughter in is never going to be her French score, or even her English score - its the package, who is she, what does she want to do, what does she add to the class of 20 whatever. Harvard and Princeton take a lot of perfect scores, with perfect tracks, but they are never going to reject someone they want for other reasons because they juggled their courses!

Speaking from my university perch which is not in admissions but has dealt with them!
Her sanity and happiness will matter more in these two years than anything else.

DeHe

Sorry for the sidetrack, but what are LACs?

LAC = Liberal Arts College

She is looking at colleges like Haverford, Carleton, Kenyon, Macalaster, Oberlin, etc.

She may not get a 4 in the AP test (her sister only managed a 3 on that one -- our family has NO talent for languages). But she won't take it until spring of senior year. Acceptances or rejections will be in hand by the time she takes the AP test. Her fall grade in AP French will be more important. I think she will spend some time over the summer with an AP French study book regardless of whether she takes French V next semester or just self studies with her tutor.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I can't say that languages are an area of talent for anyone in my family either, save for my step-brother who is fluent in everything from Mandarin to Spanish. He's not technically a relative, though .

The college admissions game is one we'll be thinking about soon enough ourselves. As importantly, the scholarship winning game will be in our considerations.

It is a bummer and somewhat ironic to have to put your fulfillment and education on hold in order to get into your college of choice, though. Let us know what she decides.

Okay... D is settled into her new schedule. Skipping French V next semester, but she is set up with her tutor and has a free block (where the previous English section was) that she will use to study French. The tutor is a French teacher at her school that we have used for tutoring for both of our kids. Apparently the principal told the French teacher today that he did not want her to tutor D (and thus enable this schedule change). The teacher (cheers!) has chosen to go ahead and tutor D anyway.

Not sure how the new English class will go (doesn't start until next quarter, block scheduling). But the previous English class started this week, and D's friends are already complaining that the old teacher is ruining Walt Whitman for them. I think this change was the right choice if we couldn't get the AP option.

Now just need to figure out how to keep the principal from trashing D on her National Merit Finalist letter, as he has apparently labeled her as a quitter in his mind based on his last email. Sigh...

High school is hard...the stakes start seeming so high. Print out the poem 'if' and consentrate on memorizing it when the worried thoughts creep in. Ok?

I don't think he ever switched. I guess I misinterpreted a few sympathetic noises for actual agreement along the way. He doubled down today on his support of the teacher. About once a month he writes a section of a communication that goes to all families of the K-12 school. Today he published an article praising this teacher for her "experiential" approach to teaching English. Ick. I think I will just hang on to the idea that it is in his best interest for the school to have as many National Merit Finalists as possible.

And, most importantly, D said today that she is VERY happy with her school courses this quarter (even with French self study). That makes it all worth it.

Yippee!

Update from the original poster here. D's friends who are still in the awful English class were complaining today. Apparently they are using "interpretive dance to illustrate Thoreau" this week. The teacher of the other section (D will have her next quarter for English) has chosen NOT to employ that part of the curriculum, so D is feeling very thankful about making the move.

Her older sister said, "Thoreau also used to sit naked in the woods. They could do THAT for experiential learning!".