DD6 is in first grade and the gifted program. The gifted program involves being pulled out for a couple of hours for Language Arts and Math. For the rest of the day she's in a regular first grade class, where she has been gradually expressing her boredom and frustration with not learning anything. So, at her behest, we had a meeting to review her IEP last week, with the goal of getting her promoted to 2nd grade.

Here are some things we learned:

- The gifted class is made up of 1st-3rd graders, and the gifted teacher says each kid does work one grade level up, differentiated for each individual. Work almost never comes home from this class, so we have little information to support that except what DD shares, though she has indicated that they're doing multiplication and division, which is 3rd grade work. She also indicates they're all doing the same thing. This is interesting, because DD is the only 1st grader in the class, there's one other 2nd grader, and the rest are 3rd graders. This means my daughter is working 2 grades above level in math, one other child is working one level above, and the rest are doing grade-level work.

- DD was tested for suitability for 2nd grade, and with more than half the school year remaining, she scored a 58% on a math test for what she's supposed to know at the end of 2nd grade. Reading skills were off the chart, though comprehension was near the 2nd-grade baseline (I never did well at this at the elementary level, either, because who cares what color the dog was?). I don't know what these results told the people in that room, but they told me that 2nd grade was the right challenge level.

- G/T teacher indicated that DD still wanted the teacher to stand by her a lot and help her through the math, an indication of a lack of maturity to work independently... to which DW said, "Of course she needs more help, you're doing multiplication, she's never seen this before, she's your only first grader!" 1st grade teacher indicated DD works independently with no problems.

- Principal stated unequivocally that a grade skip was not an option, that the district doesn't even do it. We reached out to the district to verify, because they have a process for it outlined in their documentation. Yes, they do have a process, but the district person who would have final say, when questioned, indicated that she would ignore the parents and trust the "experts" around the room, because they know how children develop. Said experts recited a slew of misconceptions about gifted children during that meeting. The principal even tried to pretend they have a number of children like DD in each classroom, at which point I was forced to point out she's the only one in her entire grade level receiving gifted services.

We agreed to allow the first grade teacher to work with the gifted teacher to come to some accommodations for DD in the 1st grade class, and meet in six weeks to discuss the outcome. But I pressed them to commit to a six-week trial in 2nd grade if the results are unsatisfactory, and again, the principal dismissed that option out of hand.

So... given the information we've received, my confidence that they even know anything about gifted children at all is at a new low. And if this doesn't work, given the institutional hostility towards the concept of grade-skipping, I feel our only alternative will be to go back to homeschooling. It's this "enrichment" or nothing. The sad thing is, DD really likes the gifted program.

Am I just being overly pessimistic here? Your thoughts, please.

As a footnote, when DD got home from school that day, she plopped herself in DW's lap and eagerly inquired, "Am I going to second grade now?" When she got her answer, she quietly cried.

I'm so sorry about the school's attitude!

Personally, if I was financially able, I would homeschool my children in a hot minute. There are SO many homeschool programs, communities and resources available these days. As it is, I am the breadwinner in the family, so it's not a option for me.

When I told Butter that she would continue to miss out on "art projects" (quotations to indicate that DD didn't even REALIZE she was missing, her expectations of "art" are much higher) if she didn't do the assigned classwork in the appropriate amount of time, she wept bitterly. I would describe her as stoic, so that was my indicator...I promised I would never make her go back in that classroom...and that was AFTER an SST in which they urged me to get herr to open up emotionally. Yes, my art loving child that you want to open up to you...you're going to deny her art?!?!

So, I DON'T think they know what they are doing. I TOTALLY understand your frustration. Sometimes, administrator's hands are tied, and I get that too, but I also believe there are ALWAYS work arounds. My concern is that the person who ou are supposed to take this to doesn't even want to consider YOUR opinion, as the parent? How are we supposed to be a team, invested in your child's future, if half the team won't play ball? I wonder if any outside expert opinion would work? What if YOU gather a ton of research, etc...Do you have an independent doctor's evaluation, will they even consider that?

In our case, I think you saw, we are actually doing "independent study". We have a "school" with a physical campus. Butter can go to class with other 3rd graders 1x per week for 3 hours, plus lunch. They also have a peer tutoring lab (school goes up to 12th, so plenty of help) and lots of other optional classes like art, blues guitar and multimedia. We get all the books checked out to us and only have to produce minimal examples for the teacher to back up the grades she gives. I DO think we will still have a problem when we finish her evaluation next week, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. This school does seem alot more flexible, though I have not talked to a SINGLE PERSON other than our evaluator and one other parent of gifted that thinks acceleration is acceptable. I think, looking at our school district, I can probably give my child alot more of what she needs at this point...maybe you should look at it more that way too?

I would get the Iowa Acceleration Manual and From Emotions to Advocacy.

To answer your question, probably not.

Sorry.

Depending on your state, there may be state policies requiring individual districts to maintain full grade and subject acc policies. Now - that a district chooses to do nothing with them is a different battle. But I am first curious whether - your state supports your schools belief that they do not need to evaluate for full grade acc.

Now you write your district is implying who may have the final word - but on most such policies - there is a required appeal process. I'm horrid at the soft approach that builds for better long-term relationships but I just don't see this as over based purely on policy and how your district's board would like policy implemented to match.

You lost a battle - get an ice pack, a shield, and suit back up.

Today. Ice Cream. Tomorrow...

I had actually planned to ask them if they'd evaluated her using the Iowa Acceleration Manual during the meeting (knowing the answer would be "No", but planting the idea of doing so), but I was ambushed when the principal dismissed the idea of acceleration out of hand.

Meanwhile, I was sitting there listening to them filling the bingo board of misunderstandings about the nature of gifted kids:

- "We have kids like her in every classroom."
- "We can meet every child's individual needs through differentiation."
- "It's important for her socially to stay with kids her own age."
- "We know how children develop normally." (Guess what... she's not normal)

I passed on the executive summary of "A Nation Deceived," and the principal looked at it like I'd just handed her a used tissue.

I'll have to look at From Emotions to Advocacy, because what I'm doing right now is just the opposite. I kept my cool in the meeting, but the more I think about the result, the more angry I become.

If homeschooling, as someone else mentioned, isn't something that works for your family, would another school within the district be more accommodating? I never intended to have my kids move around as much as they have, but we've been in two districts, homeschooled, and tried a charter school in order to get dd13's needs closer to met.

The year that dd skipped, 5th, wasn't one I even had to advocate for. I called around to potential middle schools (6th-8th) when she was in 4th to say, 'here's what I've got, what will you be able to do for this kid when she gets to middle school?' The GT coordinator at the middle school she wound up attending listened to the test scores we had (IQ & achievement) and what else I had to say about dd and suggested as her first thing that we send her right away, skipping 5th. We went through the IAS with her current school at the time and the middle school and, while the current elementary hadn't been the ones suggesting the skip, they had to admit on the IAS that she more than met the requirements.

The thing with the IAS that I've found to be a bummer is that it is pretty subjective. If the school is strongly opposed, they can fill out all kinds of things like work habits, social skills, etc. to put the kid in a poor light.

How many National Merit scholars does the downstream high school have every year and how many Intel Science winners or finalists does it have? State debate champions? Spelling bee champions?

I'd keep pounding on the principal and their boss with news stories and stuff.

Here is one. A 15 year old senior goes to MIT.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/commun...t-15-already-heading-to-mit-1406226.html

Homeschooling is definitely an option, which we exercised last year. Louisiana's standards for admission to the G/T program are extraordinarily high for 5yos, in order to weed out the otherwise normal kids with pushy parents, and with no real services for her and deteriorating emotional state, we homeschooled her. She LOVED it, and it was great for her, too. It really restored and improved upon her love for learning, and it even brought her and her mom closer together.

The one downside to homeschooling is she's an extrovert, and she wants to be around lots of kids. There's an element of loneliness to homeschooling (she's an only child). She has some friends in the neighborhood, and she has all sorts of athletic activities after school, so we're meeting those needs as best we can outside the school environment already. While homeschooling, she was also involved in some local homeschool classes, but she was the youngest kid in the classes by far, and there really weren't social opportunities that went with them.

There's also a local charter school which might fit, though affordability is a BIG issue. They say they offer children work one level above grade level as a matter of course.

One interesting thing about the state of LA is they promise a right to a free, appropriate public education to gifted children, which goes beyond the requirements of IDEA and similar federal legislation. In concept, it's quite laudable. So now we're trying to leverage that right into what's truly appropriate for her. If it works out, that's the best possible scenario... she's around lots of kids, we can afford it, and she gets the appropriate education. Otherwise, the best we can do is two out of three, and we have to figure out which one to give up... and giving up the appropriate education is not an option.

Changing to another school within the district does not appear to be an option. They appear to be fairly strict about attending the school whose attendance boundaries include your home.


Yeah, I have that same concern, especially when they're already finding little ways to criticize her maturity. As I mentioned before, they criticized her for needing help on work that's brand new to her and two grade levels above her. They also said she should be taking the lead on group activities in first grade, to which I responded that it's not an appropriate expectation... sure, maybe she feels motivated to lead, but maybe also she feels motivated to shut down and tune out, because the work is so beneath her, and this is a personality response which has nothing to do with whether she's ready for a more challenging environment or not.

It doesn't help that the more frustrated she becomes in school, the more she shuts down. We saw this in K, when it got so bad she told us she'd forgotten how to write T's (this from a kid with beautiful penmanship who was already writing full sentences for a full year by that time, and whose first name includes the letter). We're seeing this again, where selected papers are coming home extremely sloppy, which shows us she rushed through it to get it over with, because she hated doing the assignment. And last night she brought home a paper from her first grade class where she'd gotten a lot of it wrong, it was basic grammar stuff she had mastered last year during homeschooling, and it was obvious she'd just rushed through it without thinking much about it. Then she beat herself up for not getting 100% on it, which she had convinced herself she should always do, as the only gifted kid in her class. Not fun.

So, to sum up, the longer the school fails to meet her needs, the more she's going to show them behaviors that indicate she's not ready for more, which enables them to continue to fail her, and ignore us. ARRRRGGGHHH!!

Austin, thanks for the newspaper article. We worry so much about accelerating, it's nice to see a success story!

Def. get the book. I can already imagine the great letters you will write! I think that just starting to document things the way Wright suggests puts the school on notice that you are serious. And that if one day it does end up before a judge, the stack of letters will show how reasonable you were and how ridiculous they were. Sometimes when they realize what you are doing they suddenly become more flexible.

Yes, this totally! And that book will help you do this.

Meaning you sue them?

In that case, the most important thing is the name of the judge.

Well, I am just sharing what Pete Wright has in his books and workshops--and since he argued and won a case before the Supreme Court I figure he knows what he is talking about1 And not actually sueing them--due process or something? My point is by doing what he suggests it is less likely to end up in front of a judge.

Edited to add: just saw your edit--and yes--that is the point--the sheer volume of evidence showing the parent did everything possible to get their child an appropriate education in a reasonable way becomes hard to find against.

In most cases, if your paper trail is good enough, it doesn't make it to court. But it helps to be ready.

Yes, all thanks to Wrightslaw!

DeeDee

Doclori, this article may help:

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10651.aspx

A comment creates confusion... affordability and charter schools... Private schools cost money but charter schools are public, tuition free... is this not true in LA?

Sorry, I misused the word. It's not a charter, it's a private.

There are no charters in my area.

From what you've described, the people you've dealt with aren't interested in meeting you're daughter's needs. So you need a new strategy. They work in a bureaucratic system and I recommend that you use everything that system has to get what your daughter needs. My advice is to look up the law on what they have to do for gifted kids and write a letter to her school and the school board that quotes it chapter and verse.

Include the stuff you have in writing that makes your case, like her score on the end-of-second grade test and any teacher notes or emails.

For example, you could go after them on their failure to follow the recommendations of the testing they gave her. Where does the law stand on this point? If she passes a test (you said her reading was off the scale for end-of-second-grade), does the law mandate that they give her appropriate assignments? Or are they allowed to ignore the results and force her to do work that she has already mastered? What about an end-of-first grade math test? Call the office of gifted ed. and get answers to this and other questions. Get answers in writing or ask them to point to a relevant section of the law.

If the district has a policy on grade skipping but the principal made a blanket statement saying he'd never even consider or allow it, use this as part of your argument that they have no intention of meeting her needs (or those of any other gifted kid for that matter). Do you have his statement in this regard in writing? If not, get it (send him an email or a real letter asking "Is there any way you might reconsider or some such thing that leaves the door open).

Quote precisely what the law says and give specific examples of how the school if failing to meet its requirements under the law. If they said they differentiate appropriately, give examples of how their idea of appropriate differentiation isn't meeting the standard set by the law. Quote the Iowa manual and respected reports like A Nation Deceived. Etc.


You may have to accept that in order to get what you want, you're going to have to annoy them or make them angry with you --- primarily because it sounds like they're going to have to be forced to help your daughter.

I understand that NCLB has mandates that discourage helping gifted kids, but if the law says they have to help her, it's too bad.

Final advice: write everything down (ask JonLaw about this). If you rely on verbal conversations, people can have different memories or interpretations of what was said.

Actually, from everything that's gone on so far, it seems that they are interested in meeting her needs, it's just that the people in position to make decisions are completely unaware of what those needs are, and how they need to be met. The state requires a free and appropriate public education, but the contention is, what is appropriate? Hence the original question... do they even know what they're doing? All signs point to "No."

Earlier, I pointed out a number of misconceptions about the nature of giftedness that they brought up during the meeting. If you assume that they're all true, then their strategy makes perfect sense, and is the best fit for my daughter. The problem is that none of them are true. Thus, it falls to us to provide a preponderance of evidence... and even that may not be enough, because if everyone was able to accept validated evidence that challenges their own preconceptions, there'd be no such thing as a truther or a moonie.

I just wanted to say good luck... and the answer to your question IMO is " no, no they have NO idea what they are doing!" We have had our battles in this state...its a traditional, we do it the way we do it way of functioning and borderlines rediculous at times. You will need to be a very strong person to get adequate public schooling in this state. I'm very glad we only have to endure it for another year and a half!

Yes, I agree with your skepticism. The same skepticism was why I suggested that you write a letter quoting the law.

True, you can try to convince them, and if you do so via email, you'll get more stuff in writing in the process.

But if you either skip the convincing altogether or write a letter after they haven't been convinced (or, really, after you have enough evidence to get them on legal points), you can get what your daughter needs through a route that may be more objective than trying to convince people who may have no interest in being convinced.

And in all honesty, it looks to me like you have presented a preponderance of solid evidence. If they're so willing to ignore it completely, why would they take more evidence seriously?

(Which leads me back to using the law to force them to do what they're legally supposed to do).

Well, it looks like our next step will be the enlistment of a professional psychologist who deals with gifted issues... because our little angel's psychological health has deteriorated to the point where the simplest little everyday setbacks are making her want to hurt herself and wish herself dead. She literally cried over spilled milk yesterday afternoon, loud and long.

She was such a happy, well-adjusted kid when she was homeschooling.

Those who are intense are often more sensitive. �But children who are more sensitive, more intense, and more needy are in a compromised position. �Just by way of experiencing their intensity, and the truth of how people respond to their actions, they can easily form the misguided impression that they are more interesting and celebrated by way of poor choices, and there is so much more relationships and energy flowing when things are going wrong than when things are going right. �Children need to feel strong on the inside so that they can discern the positive from the negative and make wise choices, even in the face of negative outside influences. �This book has been waiting on my reading list. �Your last post made me mad at how anti-human people can be. �I support your decision to find therapist. �What kind are you thinking about. �I've been window shopping and so far I've noticed there's something called a positive psychology that doesn't just relieve suffering it adds happiness. �And I've noticed Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (which I also need to get my cousin's book to borrow because that's also on my reading list. )

Thanks Val for outlining the necessary advocacy process. � � �Paper trail. �Keep repeating it so I'll remember. �Thank you.

The answer to your question is, "I have no idea." At the moment we're just trying to find someone who specializes in gifted issues, and that search doesn't seem to be bearing much fruit.

I have a wealth of ignorance when it comes to psychology.

In my experience, CBT is a good fit for thinky people. It also has the advantage of empirical support.

I've had experience with a non-CBT therapist who specialized in a me-specific characteristic, and a CBT therapist who did not, and the second was enormously more effective than the first. So my anecdote is consistent with the data.

Doesn't anxiety get you more into psychiatric world than psychologist world?

And do child psychiatrists prescribe placebos?

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10252.aspx
Well, here's this article, which suggests several good things like: insist the counselor have a session with the patents for every three sessions with the child. �A parent may need to teach a therapist about gifted children. � A therapist is hired help. ( "Finally, believe in yourself. You are the parent, and the one in charge of the family. Professionals are "hired help." Seeking counseling or therapy is not easy, particularly when you have an exceptional child, but the benefits are worth it.")

Look at the database link in the sidebar of this forum. �There's articles to read. �I don't think there's a yellow pages for local practitioners, but maybe there's one on hoagies. �Nope, hoagies just has a list of books.�
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/counseling.htm
(personal pet peeve... There's a list of therapists to help identify gifted kids, where's the list to serve them?)
Maybe SENG? Nope. �NAGC. �Nope. �Maybe someone's better at Google than I am.

From what I've read there are only five therapists in the whole country that specially treat the high end of the gifted spectrum. �I can't imagine there's many more around that specialize in treating gifted kids anyway. �I've read �that it's important to find a therapist that wants to learn about gifted issues and to adjust the therapy to your kid and be willing to take that information (about giftedness) �into account. �They don't have to know about giftedness. Just be willing to learn and take it into account. �But many posters have said if you can arrange to see a counselor that has experience with the gifted it's well worth the effort. �

If school is the problem, do you really need a therapist, or do you need to change the school situation?

Have you told the principal or her superior about what's happening to your daughter as a direct result of the school's policies? Sometimes a letter describing what's happened can help. They may not understand gifted kids, but they probably don't want to make a little child miserable.

That's a very good point too.

So, this is what landed us where we are right now, which, I think you know is...HOMESCHOOLING! lol!!! In our case, I went to the testing page on Hoagies and luckily there is one fairly close and a woman AND is familiar with 2e, used to consult for our school district, is pretty famliar with all our school choices, etc. Let me tell you, she has been worth EVERY PENNY and we don't even have the formal evaluation and recommendation yet. I am somewhat woried about what she is going to say Butter's needs are, but I know I won't be able to ask another prospective school if they will be able to meet them unless we know what they are.

That's my 2cents...let the kid come home if you can and you are all ok with that.

Aimee Yermish works with gifted kids, and frequents the board here. Her dissertation was on therapy with the gifted. I know there are articles on her blog about how to find a therapist to work with a gifted individual.

Update: Yesterday we took DD to see a psychologist, partly to get some other ideas about what we can do to advocate for her, but mostly to help her deal with all the emotional explosions she keeps having as a result of what she sees as a rejection of her needs by the school.

Our "Wha-wha-wha-what?!" moment came when the psychologist suggested that an all-day gifted program would suit her needs, which is offered by other schools in the district. Looks like it's time to start arguing for an intra-district transfer.

HAH!

We had another meeting with the school about DD last Friday. We heard from the class teachers (G/T and 1st grade) about how DD is beginning to show signs of improvement in the social arena, and what the 1st grade teacher is doing to keep DD from suffering from excessive class time to navel gaze. Then the principal launched into her usual talking points... everything is going great, let's give this more time, grade-skipping is not an option, etc.

But...

We had two newcomers in the meeting. One was the district G/T program coordinator, and the other was a childhood development specialist from the district. And finally, we seemed to have found two people in power who understood where we were coming from. We found ourselves speaking the same language for the first time, rather than dealing with poking holes in all the common misconceptions of the nature of giftedness. The G/T coordinator in particular seemed to buy into the idea that a better social fit is needed for DD, and she's looking into options, which may or may not include skipping.

Finally, some good signs, at least.

Excellent news.

Great to hear this good news.

Personally, if the all day gifted classes would keep her with agemates, and not disrupt the family too too much, I'd prefer that option to a grade skip. Gradeskips are great when there is no other option, but self contained classrooms are often the better choice. It all depends on the child's personality and needs - and the family needs as well. (Sometimes one needs both!)

Keep pushing - remember to at least try and get the private tester to speak to the GC over the phone to help you push for the intradistrict transfer.

Good luck
Grinity

Glad to hear this meeting went better. Here's hoping the new additions will change the chemistry of the meetings enough to open some new doors!