I suspect my dd is gifted. She is five. I am curious about the personality characteristics associated with this. My dd has always been extremely bright and very 'different' than other kids. I have read a lot about giftedness and it seems to put all these unrelated components of her personalty together under one name. It has made certian things make sence to me now. She has a very intense personality and deals with a lot of anxiety. In fact, we recently have come to believe that she has selective mutism. Has anyone else dealt with this? It is a social phobia of sorts causing her to literally freeze when people ask her questions or talk to her at school. She never spoken to one of her teachers. At home she never stops. I would love for her to feel accepted and celebrated for being her quirky self, ya know. Just wondering if anyone else had heard of this.

Hi mosaicmama,

welcome to these boards.

I have read once about a case like yours, but it was on another e-mailing list and I do not remember the details. Apparently the teachers thought the kid was mute, but at home he talked a lot.

I hope someone else will give you more useful information.

Welcome Mosaic Mama,
I'm glad you found us. Have you thought about getting testing for DD? I've never hear of this one, but I would guess that knowing that others would hate to hear what I have to say could cause a habit of close-mouthness. Growing up I was quite aware of my teachers and classmates cringing inwardly when I raised my hand in school. I happen to be off-the-charts extroverted, so I never stopped - but it did slow me down and confused my self-image. I'd love to see if she would be more talkative in a all-gifted environment. Does your local university or state gifted association run saturday classes?

Did she do daycare or preschool? What was it like then? What about playdates at your house?

Seems like a visit to a really really experienced Gifted Specialist is in order. Does the school know she speaks at home? Are they pushing you to get on the 'doctor-go-round?'

It sure is true that some gifted kids are quite anxious. Some are so intense that when they are happy, they are off the charts with happiness, and when they are worried they are off the charts with anxiety, and when they are sad or frustrated, they are off the charts with depression. I'm not sure if that is the same as 'anxiety.'

Are you or DH unusually shy or anxious? Aunts or Uncles?


Is this whole thing freaking you out?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Welcome! I have heard of selective mutism before just not in relation to giftedness so I can't offer anything extra. I agree that testing might be beneficial--unless of course your daughter will not talk to the tester. Does she freeze up just at school or in all situations with strangers?

I had a friend growing up who was like this. Kids were giving her grief on the playground in K because, they said, "she can't talk." I marched right up and asked her, kindly, "Can you talk?" She nodded. I turned to the kids teasing her and said, "There. She can talk. Now, leave her alone!"

I didn't hear her speak at school for years, but when I played with her at home, she was downright loud! I was surprised the first time I played with her at her house because of how different she was there. I think it was later elementary school before she said anything at all in school though.

She eventually grew out of the selective mutism--which we just called shyness at the time, though I really think it was the same thing you're dealing with. She and I were friends into college, and we still keep in touch sometimes even now. That's 30+ years!

I don't know if this will happen with your child, of course, but I hope it gives you hope.

In spending a lot of time at my kids' schools, there are some kids who have said nothing (or 2 words) to me over the years, after seeing them almost everyday, going on overnight field trips with them, coaching science teams, etc. The other day I saw a HS freshman that I've "known" for 4 years. He said more to me in that one day than in the past 4 yrs. I wonder if it's maturity or just that he was busy taking in the world and now is able to express himself--just so cool to see it happen.

I have heard of it and I think I had it as a child. I had no trouble speaking at home with my family, but at school I did not speak to anyone--not even other kids. When asked to read out loud in class I could not get my voice above a whisper. Most of my teachers were very understanding and since I often made the highest scores on classroom tests, they overlooked this quirk. Unlike my son, I colored in the lines really well and had nice handwriting, so school wasn't usually a problem for me. I learned to daydream to deal with boredom. I was happier daydreaming than talking to the other girls in my classes. I felt different, but I was okay with that.

But there was one middle school teacher that kept me after class and yelled at me because he couldn't hear my answers to his questions and another teacher made me feel so uncomfortable that I used to throw up before school each morning. This certainly wasn't helpful and in fact, these teachers kind of reminded me of bullies. I didn't learn well in those classes because of the anxiety. All those teachers taught me was that I was not okay the way I was.

I did manage to speak to other people as I got older when I needed to, but I would go over and over in my mind what I said thinking I sounded stupid, so I just didn't talk if I didn't have to. I was able to get good jobs that required good social skills. I married a talkative extrovert and we have a talkative extrovert child and I am a very good listener so we get along just fine.

As a child I was very close to my family, especially my mother. She was very smart and shy but not shy to the extreme that I was. It helped to have someone that understood. She never pushed me to change, so with her support I outgrew some of the social anxiety.

I have seen a few other kids, also very bright, who appear to have selective mutism--both very bright girls that I think are probably gifted.

I also had selective mutism. And I was a non-stop talker at home and with some select friends. Something about not feeling like I could really be myself at school made me think it was safer not saying anything than blurting out something that would make me look odd.

There was a girl like this in my son's kindergarten class last year. I don't think I heard her say anything all year!

I think it's really important to have understanding teachers for these kids! I know I was really sensitive to whether or not I thought the teacher was ok with me. And I definitely had some rough years like Lori.

I have heard of several kids with selective mutism; all of them were gifted. I believe it can be outgrown without any intervention. My daughter has a friend who had this issue, and she (at age 9) speaks little in a big group but is very chatty with 1-3 friends.

I was a very quiet kid in many circumstances when I was small, and I can remember people saying, "Oh she's shy!" Once I burst out with, "I'm not shy, I'm just quiet!" To me, there was a world of difference between the two terms.

Gifted kids can have all types of personalities, but they all seem to be INTENSE.

welcome!

The school district special ed team was afraid that my DS5 had selective mutism because he didn't want to speak to the speech evaluator (he does not meet the DSM criteria, however). He is extremely introverted. The website mentioned above is informative. Basically, in my ds's case, I think he's just not extreme enough to meet the criteria, though if he did it would be an extension of this introversion/anxiety (and no, I haven't been able to delineate the difference between extreme introversion as a personality trait and anxiety as a clinical pathology, though I haven't exactly consulted any psychologists on the issue. The school psychologist really didn't offer an opinion - she evaluated him too, but it was the school district speech therapist that was having a hissy fit about anxiety. long story - she admitted he has articulation issues, scoring in the single digits for percentile for artic, but she didn't seem to think it was a problem - she thought anxiety was the root cause of his speech issues. She never had to figure out what he was saying when she had no idea what was coming).

However, there is a link between introversion and IQ. I think I read that more than half of moderately gifted are introverted, and something like 75% of HG or PG (can't remember which) are introverted. In the general population, it's more like 30% or less.

As for personality characteristics, the best list I have seen is at http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/What_is_Gifted/characgt.htm . We had our DD7 tested at this particular place about a year ago, and found them to be excellent at testing introverted kids, so when the time comes for us to test DS5, we will go there for sure. As it was, the tester said that DD was one of the most introverted kids she had ever tested. A year later, now at the end of first grade, she is really coming out of her shell, so to speak! So I guess there's hope for my DS5...

MON,

I'm glad that your son is no longer suffering from SM. I haven't done any research into the condition, but it is interesting to me that every one of the kids I have heard of with this has been gifted. I know of four different kids (all girls) who have been diagnosed. I would say that I am definitely exposed to more gifted kids than the average person, but I also see and hear about many more typical kids each day.

Thank you so much for the input. This is all so very interesting to me. I have always known that my daughter was different than other kids her age, but I had no idea that giftedness encompassed so many personality �quirks�. It�s like it takes all these facets of her personality that seem unrelated and calls it something. It makes a lot of sense to me. She is definitely advanced academically for her age, nothing extreme though. The personality characteristics of gifted children describe her perfectly. My motivation to get her into a different classroom setting would be to make sure that she is challenged academically and to get her somewhere where the kids and teacher �get� her. She does have selective mutism, so how could she be tested? It is my understanding that she would need to answer questions and she is very frozen when she is required to answer direct questions. I believe her fear of being wrong stops her. With us she feels much freer to be imperfect. Does anyone have advice for testing in this situation?

I know of someone who had a private psychologist come to her home to test her child. Do you think that could work?

I like Cathy's idea a whole lot.

I was pleased with our experience at the Gifted Development Center, where we had DD tested last year (she was 6 at the time; they're the ones who said she was one of the most introverted kids they had ever tested). I knew she was shy but had no idea it was that extreme (since I was/am the same way lol). After spending a good deal of time warming up, DD ended up giving most of her answers through a stuffed animal, a bunny that happened to be there. This testing place prides itself on being able to get such kids to reveal what they know.

So I guess my advice would be to concentrate on finding the right tester - that can make all the difference. And then of course discuss the SM issue before you even agree to have them do the testing. I'm not sure, beyond simply calling around and asking the testers' questions, how you find the right one. Good luck finding that exact right person!!


p.s. as an update on my DS5 - he just started weekly OT with a "motor group", a very small group of kids and the therapist, and for the second week in a row he sat by the door and did nothing but observe. This is in spite of the fact that I promised him he didn't even have to talk to her, he just had to do what she said. I'm so frustrated, since getting him there is a logistical pain in the rear, and it's all for nothing.

Mosiac Mama,
I don't know if you can find a tester who will come to the house, but that could be key. In the meantime you can use the Ruff estimated levels and see if that gets you anywhere - don't use them to determine that she isn't gifted, just to support your hypothesis if she does have that particular set of experiences.

I would try to invite a gifted high schooler to come over for a visit (pay her as a 'mother's helper - don't leave the house, just try to get some paperwork done.') See if DD talks to her or treats her as a teacher. You can also try afterschooling with DD, nothing 'proves' giftedness than a child enjoying material that is a few grades above the readiness level of her agemates.

You can also try to arrange playdates with other gifted children - there are tales of very very shy kids snaping right out of their shells when they finally met other gifted kids.

Best Wishes,
Grinity