Hi
I have a a 6 yo son that is gifted .He didn`t have an IQ test but the school did a grade assessment.He reads at a 7 1/2 grade ,writes and spells at 4th grade and math 3rd grade.He was tested in french and they tested him in english and he`s at the same level.He`s trilingual.
He is currently in first grade and one of the youngest in his class.
We got him tested because he started to hate school.He was crying not to go to to school,he threatenes to kill himself if we were sending him and my son is not the same anymore.He`s a very quiet and shy kid and for him to be like that means something is wrong.It probably didn`t help that he was in a sk/1st grade last year and they put him in a 1st grade this year.Last year teacher knew he was smart he was engaging in her class and he was doing 1st grade work.This year total opposite!!

The results of his test gave him the right to have an IEP but after a month still nothing.They were supposed to give him a challenge everyday in the classroom which my son was very excited at first but now I just found out that he refuses to do them and wants to do same thing as other kids.I wouldn`t have a problem with that but at home he tells me how he doesn`t learn anything at school and he wants to quit school...I told the person that evaluated him and her answer was well he just needs to do the challenge.So now they want to bring psychologist in the classroom to observe him.They try to tell me he is manipulative and I don`t think he is.They are still asking me for his interests and I would think they should know by now.

Right now we homeschool one day a week we do hockey(he`s very talented in sports)and math 3rd grade level and it goes well.The tension in the house is pretty much gone.

I`m thinking about homeschooling.There`s no school for gifted children in my area.The private school we have is too expensive and they work only 6months above grade level.

sorry for the long post but I`m very concerned.So what are your thoughts?Would you wait to see what his current school will propose or homeschool?Am I the only one having a child that hates school?Why do you think he doesn`t want to do challenge they offer him?(by the way he gets harder homework and he does them no problem)

I have no answers but I share your concern for your son at this point. It doesn't really sound like anyone is on your son's side if they don't bother to find out anything about him and then just say he's being manipulative. I would have to ask why is he trying to be manipulative, what is he trying to get that nobody noticed he should have? I would ask them something like that, but I'm sure there's a more appropriate plan that will get results.

There's been a lot of conversations about kids having trouble doing easy work, here's one: And there's been comments of kids just refusing to do work that is too easy as well.
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted..../96636/Can_t_focus_because_too_easy.html

I read a story online about a nine year old homeschool student who was taking community college courses as part of her state approved homeschool cirriculum and the board of education asked her to take the 3rd grade CAT test. She refused. Her family refused. It was demeaning. Some kids are willing and able to do "baby work" others are not.

Hearing a small kid saying things like yours has said sounds scary. I'm grateful you're so responsive and wish you the best of luck in relieving his suffering.
Here, I hope you have time to read this:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10252.aspx

There's an organization called SENG something about the emotional needs of the gifted. It is a very real concern sometimes not taken very seriously by people who aren't in your shoes and don't know any better. Giftedness is a fuller way of taking in the world and well that can be quite a lot. So, there's a real organization and a real thing as gifted emotional needs and here's a link to a list of professionals they recommend by state:
http://www.sengifted.org/education_home_study_professionals.shtml

Hi kaboom, I'm sorry your DS is going through this. I second La Texican's advice about checking out SENG to find out more about the emotional needs of your child, and possibly talking with a psychologist.

As for whether you should wait to see what the school proposes, I would say no. If your DS was supposed to get an IEP, and you've heard nothing for a month, I would suggest calling them immediately to set up a meeting. That is, if you have any reasons to think that the school might be able to offer your DS some appropriate accommodations.

From what you've told us, your DS is working several levels beyond grade level, and staying at grade level for anything academic makes no sense. Even with a grade skip, he would still be working beyond the other kids. If you think it would work for your DS personality-wise, do you think there are options at the school for subject acceleration to the appropriate levels?

If FT homeschooling is an option, I would lean toward that if I were in your situation (meaning a school that is not giving appropriate differentiation, no gifted schools nearby, and the different levels he's ahead in different subjects). I think it would only benefit your DS's psychological health at this point. Can your DS still participate in sports if you are homeschooling FT? Homeschooling is a way to ensure that your DS is getting appropriate work at his levels.

Sorry I'm rambling. Good luck.

Unfortunitly, schools,teacher,principal and even some gifted teachers are just not trained to understand what a child like this needs. Our principal told me it's ok if school is easy for my DS. They promised me for 3 years, each year would be better and didn't.

I would suggest looking into homeschooling groups for social needs. Best of luck to you.

I agree with what others have said.

I can't serve as an example for you, I fear-- only as a warning.

My 11yo began her school career much the same way-- the school's idea of "enrichment" and "acceleration" was pretty radical...

but nowhere near what DD actually NEEDS. We, too, have been promised that "it will get better {next year/in middle school/in high school}" and it DOES NOT.

Every year, my daughter falls apart when she realizes that it is the same old story again, just with more output expectations to accompany the material she already knows. In other words, it was bad enough to write a paragraph about {topic she has known for years} at a level that she is well past... but as time goes on, those paragraphs become term papers. But the feeling is the same; that is, they don't learn anything from the exercise, no matter how TIME-CONSUMING it is.

Does this sound like torture? I think so.

It sounds as though you may have trouble getting even moderate accommodations if a few extra worksheets are all they had in mind as 'accommodation' for your gifted boy.

I'd homeschool in your situation. Since you've been told that your son should have an IEP, insist upon a meeting-- but be mentally prepared for them to be incapable of understanding just how different his needs are... or worse, understanding but not being ABLE to meet them.

I know that you may not like this, but the one thing that struck me about your post is that you don't feel that your son is being manipulative. Hmm. From experience, perhaps not consciously so... but savvy gifted kids are often HIGHLY manipulative. It's a coping skill; it doesn't indicate a character flaw or potential sociopathic behavior, though. Just something to be aware of. Generally when it comes up is when they are struggling with something that is intolerable in their environment and they lack the maturity/authority to do anythign else about it.

Your son's statements about suicide seem likely to fall into that category. That's one of my daughter's favorite methods, too-- because it is such a show-stopper that we literally have a tendency to drop everything to fix whatever is driving it. The Manipulative Child is a good read for parents of kids with this tendency; it gives good tools for ways to avoid reinforcing the behaviors, and turning them into more healthy means of communication generally.

Yes to SENG and a psychologist. Yes to an IEP meeting-- but do some homework about your options first. Know what you would LIKE to see (and what your son would like or needs).

I would ask the school what it plans.

It sounds like homeschool might be a good option for you now. It is sooo important for kids to get the opportunity to learn, and learn to struggle with a new and challenging topic. Your son is most likely not going to get that at school.

we were supposed to have the IEP meeting last week but I guess nothing is ready .I talked to the lady that evaluated him and again she asked me his interest and told me how he doesn`t want to do the challenge(which he was very excited at firt but again I don`t know what they want him to do).She wants him to start teaching the other kids which I disagree not his job and now what they want to do his make him resolve problem this way :if kids in his class need to find one way to do it he needs to find 3 ways etc...
I think they have no idea what to do with him.


He`s a kid that won`t do his work or take forever if it`s too easy and loose his focus.

For the manipulative part you are probably right but it only happened twice.I think it was a cry for help.I told him I was going to fix the problem.First day of class I talked to the teacher and told her how advanced he was especially in reading and he needs something challenging.Nothing happened.Two weeks after beginning of school talked to the principal saying how he hates school etc and I asked them to put him in 2nd grade.They refused they tested him in reading which moved him to last set of books they dont have in the classroom took 3 weeks to have them.I was sending weekly notes to teacher for harder stuff nothing.Talked to her on report card day and asked her again .Nothing.At that point my son had it and its when he said he was going to kill himself.I called the principal again and told him the situation and it`s when they finally decided to test him.
He loved the testing and asked me if it could be like that everyday.It took 7 months and really the boredom started last year but his teacher at the time was challenging him.

sorry for long post

It seems very likely that his pace of learning is significantly faster than other 6 year olds. Meaning that while it was unfortunate that he wasn't put in 2nd this year, it may be that after a month or two it wouldn't have been much better -- that any early elementary pace may be agonizingly dreary for him. How many repetitions does it take for him to learn new subject material?

A simple skip to 3rd for next fall sounds unlikely to be a complete solution. Beware in your meeting of the possibility that the school might view such a skip as a permanent solution and feel that if skipped to 2nd now (or 3rd in the fall) that no further pull-out, acceleration or differentiation would likely be needed.

The one day a week homeschooling is interesting... is that something your school is supportive of or is that outside of the school week? Short of entirely homeschooling could that plan be expanded to a larger percentage of the school week?

Polly

I think you've gotten some great advice already. The thing I'm wondering is whether you know what level the "challenge" work is and what type of work it is. It could be that it's still not really challenging. Or that it's busy-work instead of really learning anything, or that your son doesn't want to work independently. I know my son likes doing some reading of new topics on his own, but he'd rarely want to do a worksheet or such on the same topic. Worksheets tend to be very repetitive. And what he'd really like most of all is to read or learn about a new topic *with* someone and be able to ask questions and discuss. That's his preferred learning style. Perhaps from your homeschooling experience you already know what works best with your son, or you automatically are using that method without thinking about it? Perhaps his teachers who know so little about him are not.

Another question to ask yourself is what you're hoping to get out of sending him to this school IF they can make the IEP work? Is it worth fighting for the IEP and advocating again and again to get the right work in order to get the benefits of the school? Or will the battles with the school negate some of the benefits it might have?

And to plant a slightly devious seed -- what would happen if you pulled him from school until the IEP is resolved? Oh, sorry, they'd probably call you manipulative and call in a psychologist.

Though I really find the idea of calling a 6 yo "manipulative" humorous and appalling, IMHO, a psychologist could be helpful if it's someone is familiar with needs of the gifted and can give you and your son greater insight into the workings of his mind and how to deal with these problems. Find out what experience the person brought in by the school has and consider that in their recommendations.

My son learns fast we need 2-3 repetitions and he gets it.
As far as the homeschooling the teacher noticed and she said that it doesnt affect his academic..Principal didnt not know we were skipping school 1x a week and that`s since october.The person that evaluated him thinks it`s wrong because it makes him look special.But we really don`t care we do it for our son`s sanity.He does work at his level that day and plays hockey with his dad.It`s his happy day!!

As far as the challenge work I have no idea what they give him right now.My son is not very talkative about his school days.
I think if he only had one person doing the same work as him it would work out.He likes to work independently but he also likes working with other people if they understand fast like him.I think he starts to realize he has different interests than the other kids and he tries to fit in.

and for the devious seed we thought about it!!!

If he is asking to do the same work as the other children, it is a fair bet that either the teacher has commented about or made an issue of the fact that his work is different, or that the teacher is asking him to do his "challenge" work during a time when the other children are doing something that he would like to be doing, too. This is not ok.

Or it may be that he doesn't want to do it because his "challenge" work is *twice as boring* because it still isn't teaching anything but takes twice as long... if he is getting pages of two and three digit addition worksheets, but is capable of working at 7th grade level, I can see why he'd rebel.

I think that it is important to find out what this supposed "challenge" work is before you meet with the IEP team again, or at least make sure that the teacher brings the same work your son refused to do to the meeting with her.

I agree with you aculady.

I know one of his challenged work was to find things online and write about them,say if he liked his research and present it to the class.He was excited at first but it ended being too vague and he was pretty much copying what was on the screen.I think some of the links he didn`t like ; he had stuff about animals and he was telling me that he doesnt want to know about what they are doing but he wants to know how they are made(organs,bones etc).
At a meeting teacher said she would change that with questions he needs to answer but I never saw them...

As far as worksheets in math is at 3rd grade level but in class I don`t think he does that .For some reason they are so scared not to follow the curriculum.At home he does them really fast and if it is too repetitive he gets bored and unfocused.

This rings a huge warning bell for me because my son was once in the same boat of turning into someone else only that he didn't say anything about killing himself but I believe he would have if we'd continued in the school. The change in him was too obvious to ignore. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I haven't much else to add since others have given you such good advice but wanted to suggest how much FT homeschooling helped in our situation. We saw an instant change in him. Or as someone else suggested, if they would agree to pulling him out 2 days a week instead of 3? In our situation we could see that the school was going to remain stubborn. They wouldn't even agree to speak to us or have a conference. So pulling him out was the only thing we could do.

How in the world could they call his behavior "manipulative"? Sheesh...it's making my blood boil the more I think of it.

Virtual hugs.

I agree that he probabably would be fine with one or two kids at his level IF the teachers would provide work at their level as well. I love homeschooling, but it is very very expensive, and you probably are already paying taxes, so why shouldn't the school provide for your kids like they do for every other kid.

The good news is that they have tested him, and see that he is way above grade level. All they need now is the will to place him correctly.

1) do you feel that he could do 3rd grade work at this time? Are the handwriting efforts too much at 3rd grade level? (I'm thinking temporary fix while they sort things out....)

2) Have you cried in front of the principle? Sadly - you need to - the cold presentation of facts just never swayed any ND person.

Think: They won't care how much I know, until they know how much I care.

You need to remember how scary this whole thing is and go in there today or tomorrow and ball your eyes out. If they think you are nuts, then you have to homeschool, if they have any human warmth in their hearts, they will believe you and just give him a vacation in 3rd grade 'for now' while they bring in the psychologist for help, etc. You situation is scary, and getting your own psychologist seems wise. Your child is screaming for help - be glad he has a voice and isn't throwing chairs. Afterall - if you were reading at a 7th grade level and forced to sit in 1st grade, for the 2nd time, wouldn't you be ready to chuck a chair?

((IF you ask for 3rd and they give you 2nd, as a temporary measure, saying that lots of 2nd graders are doing 3rd grade math, it's ok to say yes - especially if the room they put him his has those kids, and the teacher is gathering them together for higher level work a few times a week. But ask for 3rd.))

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Right now he is getting 3rd grade homework bout no math in 2 months.

When we had a meeting last month they said to give 3rd grade stuff until they figured out the IEP but I think he gets 2nd grade stuff.

I had a talk with ds yesterday and he said his challenge is always in language(reading,writing)he never has math and he wants math.I think he is too scared to ask because it`s always a no.So he always gets a refusal and it took him everything to ask because he is too shy.He told me he asked her if he could read the story to the class instead of her and she refused.Which would have been a self esteem booster for him because this year he thinks he is stupid and dumb...



His handwriting is great and he writes fast.He was doing all his homework in cursive at the beginning of the year:teacher never noticed,no one taught him he learned on his own but he stop doing from lack of acknowledgement.Then after out of boredom he was doing his homework with square letter (only square line so the "o" pretty muck looked like a square)then 3D letter,then writing with a ruler,then with giant letters And after with letter so small that you needed a magnifier to read!!

I never cried in front of them but I had the feeling they thought I was nuts when I asked them to put him in 2nd grade at the beginning of the year.And when we had the meeting with principal and I said he wanted to kill himself the question was :Do you think he is serious?For us it was a warning sign from our ds that he is not happy since he never says anything.

It`s weird it is such a struggle because in a school system they make us feel he is abnormal but in our family he is normal.Lots of very smart people on both sides of the family so for us what he is capable of doing we were all doing it so I never realized he was that much advanced.

I think it's not too late to go in and cry. Lots of us gifted ex-children have very rich emotions and we work hard to contain them, so that it gets to be a habit we don't even realize we have. But then folks don't really get how upset we are. You can say you had a nightmare and make something up that makes you cry and communicates to the school that you really are THAT upset. You won't be lying - you'll just be translating. AFter all - I get how scared you are by the current situation without you having to translate. It's best to find out today if they 'have hearts' or don't 'have hearts'

I don't understand about the homework...what is he doing in the classroom, also 2nd or 3rd grade stuff? Putting him in the classroom with a 'big kids' is a totally more exciting prospect. Better for him socially, and better to be in a room where the teacher talks to the kids as though they know things and can do things.


It is weird, and very common for HG/PG families. I wish I had a nickle for every time I hear this story here. Spending time in the actual classroom is an eye opener - to say the least! If you want to be really scared, visit! The good news it that you can come out the other side more accepting and more understanding of yourself and your family.

Smiles,
Grinity

I get mixed message about what he is doing in the classroom.They tell me he doesn`t do 1st grade stuff anymore but a minute after they tell me to do the challenge he needs to finish what everybody else is doing so 1st grade stuff.I don`t know I just found out last Thursday about what is going on right now..

Grinity did you actually go in a classroom to see what was going on?

That is why he needs to physicall be in the third grade room. They have already tested him at 3rd grade level but they aren't 'believing' what they found. It's like an electron blinking between energy levels 'yes I see' and 'no I dont' see' in rapid succession. Which is why you need to step in and take control. They are blithering.
I was lucky, our particular school allowed the parents to come in and help. Then I visited other schools to see what the alternatives were, and the Montessori school suggested I sit quietly and assured me that I would fade into the rug, and I saw that this was true - the teacher was tremendously direspectful (to my point of view) to a child with me sitting 15 feet away! No party manners there. Then I even had the honor of teaching religious school 7th graders when my son was in 2nd grade, I also got to fill-in homework sit one of my son's best friends- it took all of these experiences to realize that my attitudes about the school system were totally off base. Schools aren't bad or evil. They just are very good at teaching kids who fall inside a normal range, and mine doesn't. Even though his fly is unzipped at times, and he's still a kid, he's just quite unusual.

check out Giftodd's discription:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....is_is_an_issue_or_just_a_.html#Post97769

love and More love,
Grinity

Thanks for linking to my experience Grinity - I am glad I can be of use (often feel like I'm just asking for advice rather than having much to offer!)

Kaboom, being in the midst of a similar situation I can't offer much by way of advice, but I really would second Grinity's suggestion to go in to the classroom if you can. It was a real eye opener and it gave me the opportunity to see for myself what was or wasn't happening and gave me a much better idea of where dd sits in relation to other kids.

Dd, who skipped kindergarten into a 1/2 composite class, is well beyond even the top kids in grade 2 across - except in things like art and sport in which her abilities are fairly age appropriate. And yet her presentation in class is really that of maybe an MG kid. She's very introverted. She struggles to think on her feet with an audience (one of the main reasons the normal classroom is not great for introverts - they want time to think their answers through) and is very quite (though not shy). If I hadn't been in the classroom I wouldn't have seen how this was manifesting. And it gives me an insight in to why the teacher is responding to her in the way she is.

Lol - it hasn't actually helped me with a resolution yet - the teacher is evading all attempts for a sit down meeting and told me yesterday she would not consider my request for her to scratch the surface with dd!

Best of luck, you've had some great feedback from Grinity and the other posters.

We were in a similar spot with my dd12 when she was 6. She, too, was one of the youngest in a 1st grade classroom at that point and we wound up taking her out to homeschool right around this point in the year. She didn't go back after spring break.

I truly don't feel that my dd was being manipulative; just that she was suffering so much that she didn't have a way to deal with it at age 6. She is intense and emotional but usually very reserved with expressing that around people she doesn't know closely. Thus, she's normally not one to show it at school. None the less, she was not only telling me that she wished she was dead, wished she had never been born, etc., I was also getting calls from other parents who were telling me that she was sitting at her desk in school crying and that the teacher was telling them to ignore her b/c she was a baby when they tried to comfort her. That was the straw for me that told me this situation wasn't fixable.

In hindsight, I left her in a rotten position much, much too long. We spent the whole year trying to work with the teacher on reducing repetition and change her approach with my dd, but what needed changing was more than she or the school was going to do at that point.

What I'd say is that taking him out, if you do choose that route, doesn't have to be a permanent solution. My dd is back in public school. It took a number of tries of different options ranging from changing schools twice, GT pull-outs, subject acceleration, and a grade skip to make it work reasonably well for her, but she is happy and doing well for the most part at this point.

Finally we got the IEP it took 2 months


I am not that impressed we will see how my son feels.
they have things like creating crosswords,writing research he will read to kindergarten kids.In math he will do one problem resolution a day and create math problems for his friends so still 1st grade stuff.

I don't think principal knew what was going on because at the end of meeting he mentioned how my son tested really high in reading but everything else he was average .I know they didn't do IQ test but he tested way above average(see beginning of thread )in grade assessment test.
he asked me what were my plans for next year and I was thinking what are
your plans for my son?he offered to put him in 2-3 split if they have one but I think he would still be in2nd.
We started doing a grade3 math program with my son on his Thursday homeschool day.He loves it he will do 15 pages on his own.We were told in that meeting how we are pushing him and that is wrong we should do more reading with him!
we

We were also told that day off wasn't right we still think it's a mental break and my aunt she's a psychologist in school board told me to keep that day off.
my husband mentioned maybe my son doesn't like school because he's overstimulated in the classroom and maybe he needs quiet time.Their response is now to get evaluated by psychologist for IQ and if we do it through board it would be in 6-12months.I can't wait that long .I seriously think they don't know what to do with him and they are just waisting our time.

what would you do?Should I give the teacher copy of my son's test?It gives what thing he should be doing in class right now and it shows how he scored 99percentile with age equivalent of 8.3

hi Kaboom,
I just read this thread. I am sorry you are going through this- we have been there (still not resolved,but homeschooling and much,much happier!). If you can afford to get an IQ test I would highly suggest it. It will give you a better understanding of your DS's capacity and you can use this with the school.
I have to say that I disagree with the school assigning crosswords and asking your son to create math problems for other students. Each child has a right to learn something new each and every day (as told to me by a wise consultant who has worked with gifted kids for over a decade).
I agree with your aunt that you should stick with the day off. We did this too and after one year of school are homeschooling.

Grinity, I have to say, it is difficult to see the schools as anything but EVIL when they are taking perfectly fabulous kids and really REALLY screwing them up. Probably I am to blame for some of my son's difficulties in fitting in (not exposing him to TV from the moment he was born, for instance) but my expectations that a mature, sweet, smart guy could walk into a first grade classroom in September and come out the other side feeling good about himself were just way too high.

Serious depression and suicidal talk/tendencies caused by a complete lack of academic and social fit and no apparent end in sight don't just happen when a kid is 13, 14 and 15 -- this can occur at 7, 8 and 9 and it is horrifying and scary.

Kaboom, do keep trying, and crying if need be. Also, if you find your child is sad/angry about this outside of school as well as when confronted with going to school in the morning, you might have to consider it is messing with his mood in a broader way/consider counseling for the time being to get him through.

Keep him in the loop on how things are going, talks you are having, etc., it might seem strange to do this with a first grader, but it sounds like you have no ordinary first grader.
It seemed to give my ds (8 at the time) some hope that things were actually maybe gonna change.
We have not seen a ton of change in the regular classroom, but he is the in the gt pull out which (usually) helps get him through the week. Still tough, still a daily challenge, really, but he 'feels good about himself' now and that is huge.

(... if you think I sound angry, don't get my dh started on this subject...)

Kaboom,

You have received a lot of good advice here. I guess the first thing I would suggest if you can afford it is to get private testing done for your son's IQ and achievement. You son is asking for help and having those 2 tests will at least give you a better sense of the best way to help him (they aren't perfect, but a decent starting point). They also will likely help you advocate with the school, and you can be comfortable that the school is not monkeying with the results or failing to disclose all information. Also, the pychologist who does the testing can help you with some ideas for advocacy, and talk to your son about his feelings. Make sure you test with a pyschologist who is familiar with gifted kids!

Unfortunately, it sounds to me that your school just doesn't have any idea how to deal with a kid like your kid. This isn't unusual, but it is sad. Can you check out whether there are gifted specialists in your district, or curriculum specialists who might be able to help?

You might want to read Nation Deceived from the acceleration institute, and read some of the other posts on this board. Educating yourself makes a huge difference when you advocate with the school - you start to realize that they are just really ignorant most of the time (sometimes they are willfully hostile, but not often).

Most likely you will need to decide (people here can help) what your child needs and then formally request that. My state doesn't have GIEP's so I can't help with that, but others can. Perhaps your DS needs a full grade skip and than subject acceleration in another subject or two. He certainly needs a teacher who understands how to differentiate well (and who won't try to use him as a mini-me).

Finally, if things do not improve rapidly and depending on your personal circumstances, I agree that pulling him from school for the rest of the year might be a good idea. Let him recover from the trauma of this year, learn what he wants to learn, and have fun. Heck, if you find a psychologist who is homeschool friendly, maybe you can tell the school that he/she suggested it as a way to let your child regain emotional health. Use the time to work out proper accomodations for your child for next year.

Good luck