I am new here and my DS is 4 y/o and was identified as gifted last year. He has always been very emotional. If he's happy he's extremely happy but if he's mad he throws a full tantrum. Screaming, stomping, crying. He gets so worked up that I don't think that he even know that we are there trying to talk to him. Now that he's 4.5 they seem to be getting a little less frequent but with even more intensity. Does anybody else deal with this and what kinds of things do you do when it happens? We talk about it and he tells me that he just gets very angry and instead of talking screams. He says that he knows that talking to me would be a better thing to do but that he just can't do it.

Another thing that I'm really worried about is his inability to pay attention. He is always either looking in the sky or behind him or to the side of him when he's walking. I can be standing right behind him telling him over and over to watch where he's going but it seems like he's in such a daze that he doesn't even hear me. When we are out in public I usually have to hold on to his shirt and kind of lead him around so he doesn't run into people or things. If I want him to listen to what I'm saying I have to physically hold his face and get him to look at me and sometimes even when I do that he can't repeat back what I've said yet 30 minutes later he can recount our whole conversation.

Another part of the problem is that he's very impulsive. Not only does he not pay attention but he seems to need to be in constant motion. This gets him into a lot of trouble at school because instead of sitting on the mat to listen to the story he wants to stand behind the class and jump up and down or crawl on his knees. He'll absorb everything that the teacher is talking about but he just can't seem to do it sitting down.

I've considered autism but I really don't think that's what's going on. It seems more like he's stuck in his little brain so much that he has a hard time living in the world around him. Is this a common thing or is it something that I need to really worry about?

Thank you for reading!

Jamie

its hard to know. Was your son tested ...if so can you talk to the tester? your pediatrician? is your son in preschool? how does he conpare to other kids his age? other boys i should say....best wishes....i cant remember age 4 any more.....grinity

Sorry I have no help on the tantrums.

On inattentiveness, could it be interest related? I always remember my mistake of signing DS up for baseball when he was 5yo. When it was time for pitching, he was out in the field... either scratching his legs or looking up in the sky. After the game, he asked me "Did you see the clouds? They looked like candy floss!". I should have known he was never into team sports.

Haha...that sounds like mine. I tried soccer for one season. He was more interested in tasting every single flavor of Gatoraid on the bench than playing!

When it happens in school I think it's interest related. His teacher told me when they do centers (where they get to pick what they want to work on) he is fine but it seems to happen way too often for it to be that.

My son was tested through the school board but I really, really, really (I can't say that enough) didn't like the tester. I do love his ped though and have been thinking about calling him to schedule a meeting.

The reason this has become a worry for me is because I see him with my step son who is only about 20 days older and the difference is very noticeable. The other day when we were at the grocery store I watched DSS walk down the aisle and pay attention to where he was going while I was making a mad dash for my DS who was about to run head-first into a cart full of groceries.

I'd like to talk to his teacher too to see what she thinks.

DS used to have fits like this sometimes, we used to call them 'rages' and they were very worrisome to us. It was like a tantrum to the nth degree. We couldn't console him, couldn't calm him down, nothing. It was as if he was completely out of control and not aware of anything but what he was feeling. We mentioned it to his pediatrician, but were told that all kids have tantrums and it was normal. BUT, none of the other tantrums I witnessed in other kids were like this. So, we just figured out that if we just sat down out of the way and let him get whatever it was out (watching him of course), that was about the only way to get thru it. The more we tried to intervene, the worse it got. He was always worn out afterward, but then it was over and like nothing had happened, he was ready to be comforted. The only way I can describe it is like a purging. It was as if he just had to get everything out and language wasn't his strongest area. I still don't know what exactly the cause was, but I believe it was frustration and stress. We didn't know DS was 'gifted' at those ages, although we had an idea that something was different. I wish we had known or had access to people who could have clued us in, perhaps we could have helped him thru some of those tough times. Things are definitely better as he's gotten older - almost 9 now. Good luck to you and your little one.

hi jamie b - i don't know if it's "normal" or not, but it sure sounds familiar. I think i must say "watch where you're going" every single time we're out somewhere with DS5. There are just so many other things to think about that are much more interesting than watching what's ahead! It seems like this is improving a bit - i remember I used to have to pull him out of the way of carts at the grocery store a lot more. hmmm - maybe that's only better because he's been sitting in the bottom of the cart lately...

We still get a few out-of-proportion tantrums too, but these are definitely starting to go away. Usually a frustration related to not getting what he wants. We found that these were reduced with parental consistency - we didn't give in to his screams/pleas, then he knew what to expect next time.

Our DS5 also likes to run around. Sometimes he just runs up and down the length of the house and says "i need some exercise!" After running around for a bit, he's fine. Last year, when he was learning something new, he would get very excited and run around - a whole body response to the excitement of learning.

As for paying attention, i think it's very common for 4yos of all types to not pay attention. That said, it seems that sometimes DS5 is completely entranced by something (computer usually) and doesn't hear repeated questions from parents. Those times we have to get in front of his face for him to notice us. But then other times, when he seems to be not paying attention, he will hear something we didn't necessarily want him to hear and ask about it later! he definitely can pay attention to several things at once when he wants to.

It's good to hear that the tantrums have gotten better. I'm the same way with letting him get it out. I'll put him in his bed and tell him to come out when he feels better. They last way longer if I try to talk to him while they're gong on.

St. Pauli Girl, your son sounds a lot like mine. Especially being so into the computer that he doesn't hear you. And hearing what you don't want him to hear

Does he go to school or do you homeschool? How do they deal with his energy in the classroom, if he is in one?

He goes to a very part-time preschool now, so it's not much of an issue. He's going to public kindergarten in the fall, so we'll see.

DS6 has been known to have what we refer to as
"grandaddy tantrums". At 6 they have gotten much better but he still has them on occasion. He seems to just overload at times. Like you, I send him to his bed until he can pull it back together. They were really bad from 2-4 yo. Have you looked at anything regarding OE's? (overexcitabilities) I'm told that these amazing tantrums come from being over emotional which it sounds like yours is too. There is a lot of info on the web about it and it's fairly common for GT kids.

Sometimes a tight (but not painful) "hug" can help a child to get control when they've lost it. This worked like a charm on one child and made the second one madder, so we were 50/50 with it.

The one it worked on would actually come to me (even before age 2 or 3!) and *ask* for a time-out when he felt himself getting frustrated, and he is to this day definitely my kid who deals better with frustration. The other one is now more OE and seems to find a greater need to express his OEs, so holding him just makes him more frustrated. At least that's how it looks.

So the "hug" may not work, but it seems worth a try. At least it's a different approach, right? And after all, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome...

His step dad did try the "hug" with him for a while but it only made him more mad and prolonged the fits.

It's so sad to see him so frustrated.

I have looked a little at OEs but need to do more reading about it. From the little that I have read it does sound a lot like him.

We've had similar experience with DD6 as Shari has had with her son. Years 2-4 were awful (we carried her out of stores kicking and screaming more than once), but within the past few months we have actually seen her trying hard to control herself before a complete breakdown. She says it gets too hard sometimes not to "lose it", but she is trying.
After reading about OEs we have learned some great coping techniques which really rely on letting her know that we understand her frustration/anger/sadness/etc, but that we can't help her unless she calms down and talks to us. It is pretty tough for DH and I to keep calm as we say this, but if there is even a hint of exasperation in our voices, or if we give her a look, or give one to each other, she takes the breakdown to the next level! It is all about continually reaffirming that their feelings are ok, and "normal" for them to have, but that we all need to work on better ways to deal with them.
Our lives have been so much more peaceful since we discovered that she wasn't a crazy kid, or that we weren't bad parents, but that she has OEs. It has also helped that we explained this to her teachers, they now look out for signs of a meltdown. (she usually bottles up her school frustrations and lets them all explode at home.)

One thing that has worked for DS4, my OE tantrum-y kid, now that he's 4 and able to use his words more effectively is to train him in that direction.

My big secret weapon is to ask him to rate his feelings on a scale from 1-5, where 1 is "fine" and 5 is "Oh! Woe! I will die of a shattered heart any moment now!" (Laying it on thick helps, I think, so that he understood that 5s are rare to nonexistent. Our cat had died not long before I started trying this, and so I used that as about a 4...)

Then ask him to rate the significance of the actual triggering event on the same scale, taking into account harm done, reversibility/ease of correcting the problem, duration, and so on. Losing an arm is a 5, a wrinkled sock is a 1.

Then I ask him to compare his response to the event itself and decide if his response is merited.

This approach does 2 things (at least!): 1) it tosses him right out of *feeling everything SOOOOO deeply* mode and into analysis and thought, and 2) it allows him to see for himself what the rest of the world sees--the disconnect between the trigger and his emotion.

Before I tried this with my 4yo, he threw a fit over his shoes and socks every single bloomin' day! It was maddening! Tears, screaming, and my patience was at an end!

Within a week of doing this 1-5 trick, he had stopped crying over his shoes and socks entirely. It was like magic! He even smiled and asked for help when something was bothering him. The angels sang, it was so miraculous!!!

My only regret is that I didn't start doing this sooner. He's so much more self-controlled.

And as a final thought, my kids both melt down when hungry or tired. During a growth spurt, they get hungry a lot more often than I expect them to. I find that tantrums are greatly minimized by keeping blood sugar up. I have read on another GT forum--with no evidence whatsoever to back this up, so it may be hooey!--that GT kids tend to be more sensitive to low blood sugar, and that brain work makes people hungrier than exercise. If any of that is true, then the answer may be as simple as a healthy snack containing some protein and whole grains before a meltdown...

Feel free to ignore, but that's the stuff that comes to mind!

I think that I need to work harder at keeping my frustration out of my voice when he gets one. I do know that it's very hard for him to control them but at the same time they're so exhausting that even before he's having a full blown one I'm stressed out and I'm sure that he can tell.

I talked to him yesterday about using his words better. I think I'm going to try the scale thing with him and I'll tell him about it tonight. I'm willing to try anything to help him.

I read about the blood sugar too! I have been keeping a food log for DS and have noticed that if he has anything sugary for breakfast (a Poptart or cereal) then around 10 or so he has a meltdown at school. I've started giving him sausage biscuits, bagels and things like that and his school behavior has gotten better -- still not great but better. After doing the food log I was pretty convinced that the food that he was eating did have an influence on his behavior.

Now if I can just find a food that will make him focus!

I definitely try to keep some protein in our 4 year old. She has much bigger mood swings if she is just eating carbs. Cheese, yogurt, nut butters, milk, nuts, sandwich meat, boiled eggs are all good easy proteins that work well for her. My 4 year old is very dramatic and emotional (chock full of OEs), so I feel your pain! The food thing does help a bit though!

We also encourage "using your words" and speaking without whining. I won't talk to her or help her until she can pull herself together enough to talk at least somewhat rationally. Sometimes that involves just saying "Come see me when you're ready to talk" and walking away.

nice selection of proteins. we also add the SMASH fish. mostly sardine and salmon.

info on fatty acids, omegas, etc. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081230133338AAwrnXP
http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/fats-intelligence.php
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t041600.asp

I always joke that if I had a dime for every time I told DS4 "Use your words," I could hire someone just to tell him to use his words!

Sad, but probably just about right! I said it MANY times a day for many years! The scale thing worked much better for us. (Naturally YMMV...)

I guess I just think that if they knew how to use their words, they would, you know? The scale gives them another, very different way to think about the whole thing. That's why it worked for DS4, I think.

Plus it's numbers, and numbers always appeal to him lately...

Oh I don't know if the tantrums or whining is worse I'm going to make sure that he's getting a lot of protein as well.

I'm so glad that I found this board. When I mentioned a change of diet to my friends for his problems they looked at me like I was crazy!

Thanks for the links. Going read them now.

I once knew a very bored elementary student who couldn't sit still, look like he daydreamed sometimes, doodled, and didn't even once glance at the teacher while she was instructing and he was able to get his work done as expected and properly. My guess is that he was highly auditory and had very good perception skills to where he didn't need visual input to "get it".

Is your son still following what is expected in class? Do you think he needs more challenge (not a new lesson but more complexity to his work)?

One way I extinguish whining is to pretend I don't understand a thing.... like he is speaking a strange foreign language. When my son uses his "talking voice", I pretend I clearly understand what he is saying now and very relieved.

How about a stress ball while in class?

He's way above where they are in class so he needs something way more challenging. One example is they're learning to recognize what each letter is and he's reading books probably around a 3rd grade level. I talked to his teacher and explained that he was bored and that was probably part of the problem but they won't work with him because he needs to behave just like all of the other kids. They just don't get it

thanks so much for your post - I have been SO concerned about my DS6 - he has Sensory disorder (but is not on the autistic/asperger scale) and is gifted and he started with his "rages" last year right before we pulled him out of his preschool. He was bored silly, was being picked on my other kids and was totally sensory overwhelmed and learned how to just "rage" to deal with everything he was feeling. We didn't realize it was so bad at school until it had gotten to the point it did and we yanked him. The outbursts have gotten less frequent,but they still occur a few times a week....when he has just reached his point of anything he just has these out of control, bananas rages were he yells and stomps and every once in a while takes a swing at whatever is closest to him ( a HUGE no-no in our books). I have learned that he has OE's and we have been searching and searching our area for a psych or counselor to help him and us to better understand how to deal with them. So I have been following this thread hoping to glean some information to help!