Hello all - I know a lot of folks here have tons of experience and insight on where to go with advocacy and I am hoping someone can offer advice on our family's situation.

I have been advocating for more than a year for improvements to our school's gifted program/services, particularly in math instruction. I've also been advocating specifically for my kids, who are now in third grade. After limited success, I am wondering if/how I should continue to advocate or whether I should basically give up.

Our school district is small and while it considers itself to be one of the best school systems in the country, it offers very little in the way of gifted education. In elementary, it's a pull-out model. There is no subject matter acceleration and classrooms are heterogeneously grouped with some clustering of a few gifted kids in each class. We have two tiers of gifted ID - Levels 1 and 2. Level 2 is higher and those kids go to small pull-out groups with the school's GT specialist in the areas of math and language arts. The specialist is a wonderful teacher and person but works within a framework that is not designed for kids at the top end. There is one GT specialist for three grades. The district has been identifying more and more kids as gifted each year, so that now, in my kids' grade about 50% of kids are id'd as gifted. About half of those kids are Level 2. Because the numbers are so high, each Level 2 kid now sees the specialist only for 45 minutes every 8 days, which is close to once every two weeks. (whereas it used to be that kids would go 2-4 times a week). The district does not want to hire additional GT specialists, from what I understand.

I have been advocating (along with several other parents) for grouping kids by level for math instruction. The school used to do this but stopped a few years ago. The administration looked into it again over the summer (after we raised the issue) but they have apparently decided not to do it. I could not get any explanation why, other than that they would rather strengthen in-class differentiation.

At the same time that I've been trying to make more systemic changes, I've advocated for something for my kids specifically. At the end of summer, the principal created a "Level 3" group consisting of a handful of kids (incl my two) (they are all in the same class by design this year). We were told that these kids are at a math level above all other students in the school, which goes from 2nd-5th grades. But the principal said that he will not allow them to go to a higher level math class. Instead, we were told, they would get accelerated math instruction in a small group with the GT specialist and in the regular classroom. We took this to mean that they would be getting truly differentiated instruction in math. It sounded great and I was excited for my kids, who have been dying to "do harder math."

Turns out this was not true. Instead, they are seeing the GT specialist 3 times every 8 days and the other days they are in the regular classroom for math. (we have never been notified of this; I know only because I saw the schedules that were posted on each student's desk). So far in the regular classroom, they have either been doing what the rest of the class is doing (things they mastered three years ago) or they sit in the hallway outside class working on a packet of 200 math problems while the teacher teaches the rest of the class. Sometimes they get different homework. Again, I learned the above facts only from my kids. (This is not to bash their classroom teacher; I really like her but she is in a tough position and IMO too much is being asked of her).

My question, finally, is - what should I do at this point? At the end of last year and over the summer, I spoke to the principal, the assistant superintendent, classroom teachers, gifted specialists. I joined the district's committee on gifted ed over a year ago but have not been able to make much progress there. I have recently started a parent advocacy group. No matter what I've done, the answer from the administration seems to be that in-class differentiation will solve everything...but that has not worked for my kids (and there are others in the same boat).

Is it time to give up on this school district? Or do I have unrealistic expectations? What would you do?

If you have read this far, thank you so much and I would love to hear your advice.

Sounds like your district has plenty of kids with acceptable high stakes test scores. My district and school could not afford to lose my kids score. I had currency with his score....and I had the ability to take his score away from them and homeschool.

Good questions.

It is mostly math, though the lack of challenge extends to other areas as well. What I think is most harmful is that I already see signs of underachievement and my kids are not learning to work hard and struggle academically. They do not perceive school as a place for learning and ask why they get to learn over the summer, in camps, but not at school. This aspect has actually improved a bit so far this year. In the past, they would say they hated school. This year I have not heard them say that.

Other options would include moving to a nearby district that has a much more robust GT program (e.g., self-contained GT classes). This would mean selling our house and buying another, but we wouldn't have to go far, as we live a few houses away from the district line. Not sure if private is an option but thinking about it (prefer public).

I think one of the things that is bothering me is comparing the options in our district to the options in the district down the street and seeing how much more they offer.

My answer to the original question is, "when you've tried everything you can think of, the school/district has demonstrated that it isn't going to do anything significantly different, and/or the harm to my child reaches the point where no further patience is warranted."

We reached that final breaking point with my DD's school system three separate times, and resorted to schooling at home. Each time she has returned to school with a different set of expectations... once because she was now old enough for their full GT pull-out program, again because we'd effected the grade skip they pointedly refused to consider. She's now homeschooling again, and we're considering re-enrolling her in public school when she's ready for middle school.

Then again, we may not.


That might be an opening. Do the schools in the other district perform better on state testing? Some hints about how your district could learn from theirs might be motivating to administrators who are focused on state test results.

But I caution you about moving to a new school district, because all is not always as it appears. We pulled my DD from public school twice from a district that offered daily GT pull-outs in math and language arts. It looked good on the surface, but her experience left a lot to be desired.

Re when to give up on advocacy - there are many different times when it's "time" to give up - all based on your individual situation. I would recommend stopping for any of these reasons: you are advocating against a brick wall that will never change (the school/district doesn't want to hear from you and isn't going to change), you are spending so much time fighting/advocating that you are missing out on just being a parent, you are totally exhausted from it, or... your child is happy. There are some things I see as somewhat promising in your situation if you feel like continuing to advocate - the primary one being that your school has done *something* and seems to want to help, the issue you're having is the help they've offered isn't enough for your children. I think I'd go with something spaghetti mentioned - instead of focusing on what programs the district has, look at what can be done individually for your specific children. One idea that might work within the same school - let your kids do independent study math course during regular math instruction. I have no idea if that's something you'd think would work or that you'd even consider - it's just an example of how you might be able to think outside the box a bit, focus on your children's specific needs, and brainstorm other ways to solve the challenge for your family and your family only. Then propose that to the school, explaining why what is currently going on isn't working.

I'm very risk-averse when it comes to considering moving just to change school districts. Perhaps it's just me, but even within my one school district I've found that experiences once you are actually enrolled in a school may be much different from what you think they will be based on reports from other parents and/or how a school advertises and promotes its program.

Last question/thought - you said you don't want to consider private school. I also, a long time ago, didn't want to consider private school. We eventually pulled our kids out of public school simply because it wasn't working, and for us, sending them to a private school was the *best* thing we ever did for their education. Everyone's experience will be different, of course, as will each school - but the one thing I wanted to mention from our experience - not only was the new school a great choice in terms of academics/social/everything-child-related, one *huge* benefit that I hadn't anticipated was that I no longer had to beat my head against a brick wall advocating - if there was something that I felt my child needed, I was able to easily discuss it with the teachers and for the most part, the teachers were always willing to try to help. So I was now suddenly no longer in that position of wondering - how long should I stick with advocating.

Good luck moving forward!

polarbear

Ditto this.

I think also you don't necessarily have to "give up" but can simply take a break if needed. You're not marrying the idea--just stepping back a bit/for awhile.

Almost from day 1 our DD has been advanced at least 2 grades above her school grade in Maths. I didn't even bother attempting to get the school to differentiate because honestly they cannot.

They are typically under so much pressure to make silk purses out of sow's ears so to speak with the standardized testing that they haven't got the time to do a stellar job at that and look after the 1 child in the class that needs so much more but to the right of the line instead of the left.

We used Singapore Maths, the SG Maths Challenge Problems, Zaccaro (too easy really) and an online game called Lure of the Labyrinth for K thru 5 Maths levels. After that we went to AoPS.

I understand that AoPS now has something called Beast Academy for Primary Maths which gets good reviews. Were I in your shoes I would stop trying to stop the tide like the King Canute fable and just accept that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

Choose your battles and save your psychic reserves for the times when you have no alternatives - with Maths, at least, there are plenty of options outside of school - is what I would recommend. I mean, honestly, at primary levels - what exactly Is meeting the GT specialist really going to achieve that SG Maths or Beast Academy and later AoPS cannot?

So when they get the packet of 200 questions to do in the hallway or the different homework, is it the right level? If not, I would try to advocate for a different packet and different homework. I think that is probably the most that you are going to get of of that school and the question is whether it is still unacceptable. DS's last school, in second grade, sent him to do Khan Academy in the special ed room but he was never getting any direct instruction at the correct level at all, no one was checking or monitoring his work (other than me doing what I could) and he had no peers to work with. I appreciated the fact that they were willing to bend just a bit to do as much as they did, but there was no way that was going to work out long-term. We ended up changing schools (without moving) to a school that accelerated him 3 grade levels for math like it was no big deal. I was in awe. If you consider moving, call the other school district (or districts) and, without giving your name, ask what their poilicies are regarding acceleration.
We did have our other kid in a self-contained program that involved giving advanced work for math. It looked good on paper and when the teachers gave a presentation but it ended up being a disaster, with all the kids working at their own pace. That is no better than sending a kid out in the hallway to work on their own. They did not make that clear. So programs that "sound" good may not actually be good. I think you need to talk to a lot of parents to get the true picture of what is going on, because I talked to a couple who had kids currently in the program, and they both told me it was fine. Meanwhile, other disgusted parents remove their kids. It's luck of the draw, depending on who you happen to talk to. I would have been so mad if we moved for that program--we would have been in for a rude awakening.

Yes.


I'll add to that list any situation in which the powers that be are actively placing your child in any situation that is harmful or dangerous as a result of that advocacy-- and that this situation appears that way not only to you, but to outsiders who have no skin in the game.

What I mean by that is a situation in which your child is isolated from a social life as a result of the school subtly retaliating for your effort to advocate for his/her needs. That effectively says to you (as a parent and advocate); CHOOSE which of your child's basic needs to have met. It treats your child as a second-class person, and our kids sniff that out better than most do. It communicates to your child that there is something shameful and wrong about being the way that s/he is.

Do NOT ask how I know this one-- but ignoring this one is bad, bad BAD news for the life lessons that it teaches and the personality quirks that it leaves behind.

Even while you take a break from advocating, you may wish to continue documenting events and incidents as they occur and/or as you become aware of them. This documentation would include dates and refer to work samples, assignments, etc. A private journal kept at home and used exclusively for education notes could contain the documentation.

The parents in your group may also wish to coach your kids on developing and practicing self-advocacy skills.

Unfortunately, retaliation happens. Here is a link to an old thread, Have you ever sensed "retaliation?"

It may help parents to understand that in the current educational climate in US public schools, both school ratings/rankings and teacher evaluation/compensation are increasingly based on achieving equal outcomes for all. Therefore US public schools may be less concerned with helping gifted pupils achieve their potential and more concerned with closing achievement gaps and excellence gaps. Unfortunately, sometimes this is accomplished by capping the growth of the students at the top. Other threads discuss buzzwords for educational experiences and different grading strategies which may be utilized to accomplish this. While some of these may seem retaliatory, in general they are not personal but reflect the school has different goals than those aspired to by many gifted students and their families.

Schools and parents may be considered to be working "at crossed purposes".

This is a fair point and for those of us that went through/benefitted from gifted programs and tracking as children ourselves it is especially bewildering, loathsome and exasperating.

Agreed. Individuals have different strengths, and each individual should be encouraged to flourish... gifted, advanced, and/or high-achieving individuals should not be held back to create an artifice of equal academic/intellectual/educational outcomes.

Ignoring individual strengths and cutting tall poppies to create equal outcomes is bewildering, loathsome, and exasperating.

By contrast, excellence in sports is encouraged, and varsity athletes are not told to warm the bench until junior varsity or intramural athletes catch up.

This is a fair point and for those of us that went through/benefitted from gifted programs and tracking as children ourselves it is especially bewildering, loathsome and exasperating.

My philosophy has been exactly this with regards to math. I am yet to see a GT specialist who can provide more challenging content for math than AOPs and Beast Academy (we have moved 4 schools already).

I chose to reserve my energy for High School when the stakes are high.

I stopped advocating when I realized that my child had a few things he enjoyed about the math curriculum (word problems and hands-on math) and that he was not bored all day long. I still bring it up in teacher meetings but I put more effort into enrichment at home these days.

This. So much this.

My kid thinks of school as the place he wastes 7 hours of his day and constantly asks why it's so boring. He gives up on things that he doesn't understand instantly because he's never had to struggle.

I'm struggling with this right now myself. I'm going to pull him from the charter school he's in and I have to figure out where to send him. I guess that means I'm at the "give up" phase myself with his current school.

Can you move to be in the neighboring district? One of the options I'm looking at is a private school I really can't afford that it also far away. Good thing is it goes until 12th grade. If we go there and it works, I'm going to have to move to make the logistics more manageable. I love my house and my neighborhood, but I don't see any other option.

This is precisely the reason that I got my DD doing AoPS - some of their questions make you 'hit the Wall' on a regular basis so my DD has learned to persist beyond the first attempt as opposed to feeling stupid because the answer is not immediately obvious for the first time. Importantly, AoPS teach by discovery and stress the concepts over the methods which personally I feel is critical.

I don't want my DD to see school as the ONLY place where she will learn because the World is the place to learn in - 24x7xa long and healthy lifespan (God willing).

This is such an individual decision. Our DD is not challenged at all at her small private school. There is no gifted program etc and they really do not have the resources to do a lot. She does online courses through CTY and she works with a math professor a few hours a week for math enrichment (all extras that we pay for). However, she is so happy socially that it makes up for it. She has wonderful friends, she is loved and accepted quirks and all and really gets to be a leader. Those things are as important, if not more so, than academics in our family. I think it is always a juggle and you have to decide what to let go.

Davidson Academy is free (relocating to Reno is not free, but once you get there Davidson Academy is a public school). If we didn't have a good local gifted private school I would seriously consider moving to Reno if my kids qualified (we are too young right now anyway).

Agreed.

Even when advocacy appears to be successful (and especially when it isn't), parents may wish to seek other options, including afterschooling and enrichment... to help a child begin exploring the value of being lifelong learners.

The concept of being life-long learners... developing internal locus of control... owning one's education... embracing a no-ceilings approach... making connections to slices of information in other classes, or (better yet) connections to news, history, current events, displays at local museums, topics coming up in conversations, lived experiences, etc... helps develop a well-rounded person.

We hit the wall end of 3rd going into 4th. DS was accelerated 2 yrs in math and LA (pull out to another class) the HA class 2 grades up. This school only went through 5th grade so we were out of curriculum.

We met in the summer with his new to be 4th grade teacher and the HA (High Ability) curriculum director and they agreed we could supplement with AoPS pre algebra for 4th. We bought a tablet and the book and solutions manual and gave them to the teacher. They would also challenge him in other areas, LA and reading. It really never took off at school (an extra work sheet here and there for homework) but we had a plan B for after school and a tutor once a week. Later that year at a parent teacher meeting which included the HA curriculum director again, we were told we had misunderstood the plan. We had an IEP but this was not in it. Not sure it would have made any difference. We were beginning to not trust anything they said.

End of 4th we met with all his teachers (current and previous), curriculum director, HA curriculum director, middle school math teacher and middle and high school principals. They had a plan, it was to create a HA classroom at another school and put all the HA kids in 5th in this room (the principal of that school was there too, a wonderful lady). Transportation was on us to this school. They said they would drive my ds to middle school to take Algebra 1. Sounds like they are working with us but we had a feeling something might not pan out and we didn’t want to waste another year. Our ds was doing great and dealing with the work fine but the gap was widening. This is when opted for a Local private school which has been great.

The public school teachers did what they could for 3 years, they just ran out of resources and were already stretched. Some seemed very sad in these meetings because they really like our ds and he really liked them.

Down deep we knew this would be the case but we had to try.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. These insights are so helpful.

We do a lot of learning/exploring outside of school, too, via CTY, Beast Academy, Khan Academy, learning about politics, geography, etc. My kids also go to a weekly language class (their heritage language) on the weekend and that is the most challenging academic experience they have, which is so good for them (also good socially). We travel a lot, we read a lot, etc etc. They play instruments. They do sports. So I wholeheartedly agree with those who have said that this outside stuff is important. I don't expect the school to do everything.

But - my DH and I both work full time and my kids are still young and while they love to learn, they also want to play and sometimes they need free time to just chill out after school, you know? So the balance can feel off sometimes. And as much as we model learning/exploring at home, I feel their school experience is teaching them the opposite - that school is not really a place for true learning. I hate to see that attitude developing.

I like the idea some of you raised about suggesting a book/online curriculum they could use for those times they are otherwise just sitting alone working on worksheets. Perhaps I can try that.

Do you have any charter schools in your area? Or schools with a project-based learning philosophy? Any other school options at all? Not necessarily gifted schools, just anything different than where your children are at the moment?

polarbear

polarbear -

Our district is very small so there is only one elementary school, one middle school, one high school. No charters or anything else. We would have to move to another (larger) district or look for a private school.

Is homeschooling any kind of option for you?

That is another fallback position when you give up the advocacy fight as a lost cause. Not saying that everyone can do this-- and certainly, I wish that it weren't the least-worst option out there for families, but that is a pragmatic thing in some cases.

It's really not. We both work full time and can't change that for any real length of time (nor would we want to). Nor do I think I'm equipped to homeschool in a well-rounded way. It does sound appealing sometimes, but it's not realistic for us.

If you decide to go to another district, you may want to rent something and try it out before making a commitment (we may end up doing the same)

Is there any chance the principal would read A Nation Empowered and be open to acceleration in math? I know you said he doesn't want to do that, but the evidence is pretty compelling that it is a low-cost, useful option.

How far away from another district are you? Within driving distance?

For me the question became, should I spend my time and energy fighting with the administration, or just spend it teaching my kid.

Private schools, even those using the word gifted, are not always a solution. I would also consider home schooling.

Additional food for thought: "School Administrators as Politicians" http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/223700/

polarbear - we are walking distance from the other district. the line is a few houses down from ours.

I like the idea of providing literature to the principal and other administrators.

Yes, educators can also join the Davidson Educators' Guild.

I have good news to report!!!

Another mother sent an email to the relevant teachers and administrators, asking what happened to the math acceleration plan that we all discussed right before school started. Further emails ensued (including from me; I guess I cannot resist). And it looks like indeed the kids will be accelerated two grades in math, along with any gap-filling that is deemed necessary after administration of the next grade's year end test. Things were not quite set yet (they have never tried this particular arrangement before) but the test will be given this week so they can get started. Their classroom teacher is fully on board and they will be getting the 5th grade curriculum from the gifted specialist during pull-outs and in a small group in the classroom on the days they are not pulled out. The school has also purchased accounts for them to do the Stanford online program as another tool sometimes.

So...things are looking up! We have a meeting this Friday to pin down specifics. And most importantly, the teacher spoke w/ my kids about this plan yesterday and they were SO happy and excited to tell us about it. They had a pediatrician appt this morning and one of them also excitedly told her about it.

Thanks everyone for the advice. The classroom teacher already purchased Developing Math Talent by Susan Assouline after I mentioned it...

Such a difficult situation, and so many good comments and ideas. So glad to hear about the acceleration. It is always a good idea to pick your battles and decide what is the most important priority for you, your child and your family. I know that with my children, there were areas where I wish I had advocated more, and others where things fell into place. Good luck with this.

Yeah, that's a good summary. For us, we stop when we don't see any real possibility of change. But that doesn't mean that you can't start advocacy again when the time is right. Our advocacy for DS basically never worked. We told him to just have fun at school and we will cover academics at home. Until when he got into a magnet high school with strong academics and some true peers. But for DD, things changed dramatically when 1) there was a new principal at her school who has a specialty in GT education; 2) online courses became standard offering in the district; and 3) we were going to leave our elementary school for good and no need to worry about burning bridges.