I recently posted in this forum about Math Learning "Gaps". The background is that my DS10, 6th grade, was just given a test to assess his competency in the 7th grade Accelerated honors class, that combines 7th/8th grade Math in one year, which is followed by 8th grade honors math (Algebra I) the following year. The reason for this test was to see if the Accelerated 7/8 class would be the right fit for next year when he enters 7th grade.

Results are in, and he has a grade of 84 in the 7th grade part, and a grade of 56 in the 8th grade part. Without any preparation or instruction he already "knows" the 7th grade part.

The school is offering me the option of "summer school" for him, ONE-ON-ONE, to fill in the gaps that he doesn't know in the 8th grade material. The goal being to prepare him to take 8th grade Honors Math (Algebra I) in September when he enters 7th grade.

If he does well in the summer tutoring, and is well prepared to enter 8th grade honors math, he would skip over the Accelerated 7/8 class. 8th grade honors math is Algebra I for 8th grade students.

The teacher who administered the assessment test this week is "hesitant", I was told. She said to make sure "mom knows this is a rigorous class!"

Again, school has never done this before. Uncharted territory, guidance counselor told me.

Need your ideas to help me know if this is good for my son. How do I present this option to him? HELP...

I'd present it to him honestly and matter-of-factly.

IMO, it seems like the school is trying pretty hard to accommodate him. Summer math at school may not be a lot of fun, but I would look at it as a choice between a few hours of that per week and an entire year of material that he seems to know pretty well.

ITA with Val. Just give him his options and let him decide. He should have no problem filling in the gaps and it would be so much better to get individual math attention (!) for a few hours this summer than to sit through next year when he wouldn't be learning anything new until three-fourths of the way through. BTW: the hesitant teacher is basing her nervousness on her experience with NT kids. This is a chance for her eyes to be opened that some kids can handle and, will in fact love, the fast-paced challenging curriculum, even though they are young and accelerated.

Can you do math at home in the summer and retest in August? That could be a good in between option.

If he is reluctant can you follow some of the math sessions with something fun? Library trip to a big downtown branch, trip to a fun pool, bike ride, museum, picnic in a state park...have that day's surprise activity in a little envelop for him to open when he gets in the car....what are we going to do today Pherb?

Actually, I would see the school's offer as a potentially wonderful opportunity. How often does a gifted student get one-on-one tutoring at school? Not to mention mnmom23's observation that the teacher may also learn about the capabilities of HG+ kids.

I wouldn't hesitate to do that. Far better to have a few hours over the summer than a year of stuff he already mostly knows, and then he'll have a good class in the fall.

DS11 in 7th grade this year had 8th math for the first half of the year and then we moved him into e-school Algebra I for the second semester, and he didn't even blink at starting in the middle of the year for that class.

Does he like math? I think its a great option for a kid who enjoys math and would enjoy the challenge of a harder course. If he's not as interested, I wouldn't push it as he probably wouldn't integrate the material, thus struggling more next year and enjoying math less in the future.

He has loved math until they stopped challenging him.. We dont do it at home but he has been asking to learn algebra for long time. I am not sure how he should be assessed as summer progresses. How do we know if his mastery is on schedule as it goes, how to tell if he will enter algebra in September well prepared. Am I supposed d to bring ideas for that?

From what I remember he has already skipped a grade right? So he is already a year younger than his peers.

The teachers always tell you that the Algebra I class is a rigorous class and try and scare you. I think you and your son need to decide if he wants to spend the summer working on the gaps, and get to be in Algebra next year. You need buy in from him. My guess is you can tell the school you want to do the Algebra class, but if the summer tutoring doesn't work out. That you can switch back to the lower 7/8th grade class. It's usually easier to move to a lower level that get pushed up higher.

Good Luck.

My guess is if the school is overseeing it, you don't need to worry too much about tracking his progress--they will make sure he's on target to meet the needs of the class. I would ask him which class he wants to be in next year and whether he wants to dedicate time over the summer to it. I personally don't think it's worth pushing him ahead if he doesn't want to do the work--too many risks of blow back with this age.

Sounds like a great opportunity - but beware selling it so hard that your DS gets into it without real commitment on his part. In particular, the one to one over the summer could be a fantastic opportunity, but he'll need to be prepared to work.

I'd encourage the one-on-one sessions. You (and the teacher) may be surprised by how few sessions are actually required to fill the gaps. The one-on-one experience will provide the school with a fairly accurate idea of what your son can do when unconstrained by standard classroom curricula, which will help you down the road with future advocacy. Seeing is believing, after all.

I could present this to my son in a neutral, unemotional fashion, or I could present it with an "excitement" about the opportunity that he can choose.

I could leave this completely up to him, or I could tell him that Algebra is his best choice because more than half of Accel 7 is stuff he already knows.

They have not yet given me details on how many hours/days will be required in the summer.

How would you present this to your child if you were in my shoes? He's 10 years old, and pretty much all of 4th, 5th, and 6th grade math he has been unhappy about how easy and "boring" it is.

If you can I would present both in a good light. Ideally if you can show him the difference between the material he would be doing in the 7/8th and the Algebra I class. I would present somewhere between your two options. Suggesting that you feel he would be happier in Algebra but it would take work and commitment on his part. Given that he has been unhappy in math and wanting more challenging work, I suspect he will be a fairly good judge. Although you might also have to read between the lines. While I feel asking him is important, at the end run you are the parent and hopefully has a better idea as to how motivated he really is.

I would go with excitement about the opportunity - this decision to summer school the gaps could change the rest of his school maths experiences!

I'd be like "ooh I have some exciting and interesting news for you"

Show results of test

Option A - do summer maths one on one, and then get to do algebra 1 next year and therefore be bumped up for the rest of school life

OR

Option B - go combo class next year as planned and therefore understand that you need to comply with all requirements for this class, even though you know 3/4 of the work already now.

then end with "I know what I would prefer you to do; now you need to decide for yourself."

make sure he understands each option, the time involved, the commitment involved and the expected outcomes.

then with grace allow him to chose and therefore direct this himself.

I would first try to get the details on how the summer sessions will work, just so you can give those to him as facts. If you can't get that info beforehand, that's ok, just tell him you don't know yet, but for my kids, it helps to have that type of info up front - even if it really doesn't factor into their decision. They just like to see it as a plan, rather than "if you choose ____, you'll have to do ___, but I can't tell you exactly how or when or where you'll do _____".

Then I'd just give him the choices, without added excitement or any kind of warnings about extra work. If he says he's not sure or doesn't know what he wants to do, make a pros/cons list with him (and this is where you can insert anything you want to remind him of such as being bored in his current class etc). Then help him go through the decision making process looking over his list.

The last thing I'll throw in there - in our family, we make sure we get input from our children in decisions like this and when we can we like to let them make the decision, but we also, depending on the decision, make it clear that parents' decisions are sometimes the last call. That sounds dictatorial doesn't it - but it's not meant to be. It's just that some decisions really do belong with the parent - either because we understand the situation or know more about what's the right thing to do simply based on our life experience - or it might be a decision that's too big or too stressful for our child to make. If you think either of these apply here, just make the decision for him and explain your reasons.

I'll also add - don't know if it will help you feel more confident with your decision or not but fwiw - although this may be the first time it's been tried at your ds' school, moving higher ability math students into Algebra in 7th grade isn't uncommon in our district, and in some ways there's been a bit of a "push" for it. It's really worked out a-ok, and I think in the situation your ds is in where the school district is offering tutoring to fill in the gaps it's a win-win all around. The only thing I'd want clarified before saying "yes" was to make sure that scheduling works out, and also would want to know that he'll be able to move on to Geometry in 8th without any superficial bumps in the road such as "we don't offer Geometry at his middle school" etc.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Here too. ITA with Polar.

DeeDee

This kind of thing can be tricky, so I asked my DS10 about it. He says it'd be important for him to know what the maximum amount of his summer this 1-1 could take up would be (and this is a kid who does, in fact, spend quite a lot of his time voluntarily doing maths - the spectre is of the commitment, not of the maths). It's not so much that he wouldn't want to do it as that he would want a guarantee that he wouldn't be losing an unacceptable-to-him amount of downtime over it. I don't think you'd necessarily need to ask the school about this; you could decide a generous limit and tell them, provided your DS was on board with it. Then if the limit weren't enough, 7th/8th it would be.

If it were me, I'd present it as straight as I could: if I thought Alg1 the best thing for him I'd say so, and if I wasn't sure he was ready to commit to the work to get there, I'd say that too. I would be happy to offer sweeteners if it would help him to commit to doing the work, and I'd be happy to negotiate with him what those would be (for us it's gaming time, and asking DS10 how much gaming time entitlement he requires to be willing to do X works much better than you might think!): but I would not decide for him that he was going to do the summer work, because of the impossibility of doing the work for him!

ETA DS10 also said "I think I'd like to meet this boy some day", and was sad to hear that like almost everyone else on this forum he doesn't live in Scotland. Sigh.

I love hearing everyone's point of view. This is tremendously helpful!
Sweetie what a great idea, to have a little surprise activity on a little note to open in the car. Collinsmum, your son is so sweet :-)

I will try to find the textbooks on the teacher's websites, and print screen shots of sample pages for him. He's never been worried about academics before, ever. But he's never had a class that I'd consider rigorous, either.

How would we define rigorous, in a middle school honors math class? how would it be different from the accelerated 7 class? It's Algebra I versus. doublespeed 7/8 math. Can anyone offer guesses or experiences? The teacher isn't worried about Accelerated 7, but she is about Algebra. Why?

I think your son will be fine. I have no idea what "doublespeed" 7/8 math would be - is that school lingo for Pre-Algebra? Accelerated math in most districts near here is Pre-Algebra in 6th, Algebra I in 7th, so I think that kids like your son would do just fine in Algebra I. When middle kid was accelerated in this manner, she and others who placed into this track had some gaps, but most handled the gaps easily (kids who pick up things very quickly tend to fill in gaps quickly).

I guess that most would call Algebra I in 7th rigorous. However, it sounds like the type of challenge he needs. Teachers worry about all sorts of things. However, they usually don't know your kid's potential as well as you do.

Doublespeed is a word I made up because Accelerated Grade 7 Math is grade 7 and 8 math in one year. It's the start of the Honors track. The school says it's "breakneck paced". Makes me nervous. They're probably used to parents and kids who freak out.

I heard somewhere that things learned quickly are forgotten quickly. Things learned slowly are retained. I suppose this theory does not really apply to most gifted children? 8th grade fill-in-the-gap summer study is reasonable?

You are in the same situation as us. DD10 is headed to 7th grade but we will homeschool her for the first time and I plan to do Algebra I. Over the summer, I will do an assessment and do pre-Algebra to fill in the gaps.

I dont know how much study and homework time algebra I will require in the fall nor the accelerated 7 class. All I know is that current 6grade math homework he whips out in 5 Minutes or less. He never studies at home for any of the tests. What concrete quantity of time can I explain he needs to commit to in fall..for both options? He might complete hw quickly or not. He will also need to learn new study skills. How do I describe what his experience will be and what is expected time wise? Is he entitled to be taught study skills if needed or is that left up to the parent?

This is so school-dependent that we can't really say. But tbh I'd worry more about Alg1 being an anticlimax than about it being too hard! It's possible the school will pile on busywork homework, but as the school is being helpful now I would cross that bridge when I came to it, personally (eg by having him do only the harder problems).

Fwiw, without knowing your son, the plan to some work over the summer and go into Alg1 sounds fine to me, if he's happy with it.

When I investigated California's Common Core middle school math standards, I found that most of Grade 8 was a review of Grade 7 with a couple of bits added on. It should not require a 'breakneck pace' to cover it all - not by the standards of this board, anyway, and especially not if he's learned half of it already.

Possibly the 7/8 course has more of a spiral path through the material, while Algebra really requires mastery of each concept before moving on? The teacher might assume this makes Algebra more difficult.

That theory is more trite than real for anyone. At best it describes disconnected cramming.

We learn best at our level challenge, when ideas come in and connect with things and we work a bit to make sense of it. When the information is engaging and interesting, we put more focus and more of our mind on it at the time; the boost of the thrill of succeeding also makes the recall better. If you're floating in a bored zone, your brain engages less and encodes more shallowly; active attention is the currency of memory.

This is very well put.

Please may I use this as a quote... This is so well said and needs to be shared with the world! I'm happy to reference you for credit... real name or ZenScanner? )

Thank you, feel free to reuse, no credit needed or just Zen.

Funny, I liked the currency part so much in reread, I thought someone else must've said it first. But Google says it's an original.

cool thanks!!

With mathematics, like with any subject matter, for me, what is important for a gifted person, is depth as well as breadth. The depth part is the so satisfying. You almost get a chance to feel like, "What was that person working on when they discovered a theorem?"

This week we looked at the formula for the volume of a cone and pyramid as always being one-third of that of a cylinder and rectangular prism, respectively, given the same dimensions. But, the materials do not tell the student who discovered that and how. So, if we have time we can look it up on our own. Was there a sculpture and they chiseled it and took the measurements? We don't know.

So, for any class, I would look at the materials. Estimate how much time the child will spend with that book that semester. Look at the entire schedule, figure out sleep requirements. (My child debates me about sleep. So, it is on our list to read the latest sleep studies.)

Then, figure out what your goal is. For me personally, I think of that time with a book as my chance to absorb that book and possibly never read it again. I would love to have time to reread everything that I want, but days go incredibly fast.

I am always thinking about a model where you have these great materials from a young age and you study them for years instead of semesters.

The other point is how good is your memory. This generation seems to be under the impression, because of their technology, that they can look everything up when they want to. But, in the course of a day, if the info. you need is in a digital book and not in your head, will you have time to look everything up? I don't think so. So, I always throw in the possibility of solar flares that take away our technology of today and put us back to doing things with our brains as the spell-checker and calculator and grammar-expert, etc.

Really try to get in touch with your feelings. Some people say that if it feels too daunting, they have to do it. Some people say that if you are waking up concerned, then it's a no-go.

I wouldn't get so hung up on grades; it's more about enjoying the learning and keeping your level of balance.

I'd love to see a non-calculus explanation for the 1/3 formula. (It comes from integrating x^2.) DS's k12.com course showed a cube split into 3 congruent pyramids, but that approach doesn't extend to other cones.

Actually, this is a huge accommodation on the part of your school. He didn't pass the test and they offered to let him in anyway and provide tutoring to make sure that he was ready. All I can say is WOW.

We are in a relatively enlightened district and my 5th grader has been accelerated twice (mid-2nd grade and beginning 4th grade) so that he recently finished Algebra I. However, he had to pass everything and then some.

For what it is worth, I don't think that Algebra I in 7th grade would be a problem. The issue is whether your DS is willing to put in the time commitment and be subject to this constraint over the summer. I would not oversell it because it is crucial that he is fully bought in, particularly in the event of difficulties down the road (whether academic or otherwise). While it is huge that the school is offering free tutoring, you may also want to consider whether your DS might prefer to catch up in his own way. I know that were my DS in that type of situation, he would balk at the proposal but he would be perfectly willing to catch up on his own. On the other hand, I also have a DD who clearly could have accelerated a year (into pre-algebra as a 5th grader) but declined partly because she didn't have a passion for math and didn't want to be out of the regular flow with her friends. My point is simply that it is important to listen to your DS and do what he wants. Good luck!

We still don't know how much time/days is required over the summer. They will keep me informed. Nothing's in writing yet. Is this an example of an IEP? They haven't used this term but I've seen it on this forum.

Without overselling it my son is inclined to do this... I told him that his test grades indicate he knows the 7th grade material already, but not the 8th, because he hasn't been taught. But if he does the 8th grade gaps in summer he could learn Algebra in the fall. He just wants to know how many hours/days of summer are required. Me too.

So I am sitting tight waiting for summer specifics to give them a decision from my son.

Good job keeping your kid in the conversation. I hope he does it and all goes great.
My ds 11 5th grade has and will participate in several weeks of math camps during the summer and does not seem to mind at all.
Doing things like this makes them kind of fearless when it comes to trying new things.
I also give a bit WOW to the school.

The school wants to have a meeting with me Friday, to talk about this plan to give him the 8th grade material in the summer. Principal, math coordinator, guidance counselor.. We'll all get questions answered and discuss the logistics. Should be very productive. Quite honestly I am surprised that they are willing to try this. I will update after the meeting...thank you everyone for all feedback! Makes this so much easier.

My daughter (whose strongest subject and passion is NOT math) skipped 6th, did no work over that summer, then did well enough in 7th to move up to coordinate algebra which actually goes on HS transcript. The summer before algebra she filled in some gaps with a boy from her grade who is a math whiz, I think she met with him 4 or 5 times. There were lots of tears when she didn't understand immediately. But today she was one of a few kids (in a large school with a high percentage of gifted kids and lots of great math students) to get a math award at the 8th grade ceremony. So, honestly--I bet he will do just fine. I know your son would be doing algebra a year earlier, but anecdotally it seems to me that these kids rise to the challenge. And it certainly helped my daughter to practice some persistance. Good luck!

I would also say--it is much better for him to learn new study skills now than when he gets to college.

I agree. He NEEDS to feel strive and work to master something difficult academically. Otherwise he won't know how to organize and plan during HS AP and college. I read once, a wise woman who had famous techniques and approaches to child rearing...said "Start as you mean to go on". I think we might apply this to their education, too.

Nervous about meeting tomorrow morning...I want to be well prepared. Are there any important questions that I should remember to ask?

cee I know the author you refer to and we have found this phrase applies to many things about life. :-)

You will be fine tomorrow, the main thing is to understand the plan, the support they provide and how they/you will decide the summer study has been a success.