Hello all,

Feeling very overwhelmed with my daughters grade report and need suggestions on how to approach this...

She is almost 8 year old, 2nd grader. Started gifted program in our public school this year. She is on the side of a quite/shy kid. She is not a student focuses best and motivated to do her work quickly. Yet, she is accepted to the gifted program after a 7 hour test (COGAT + ITBS same day, back to back) with 99% scores.

The problem is that most of her grades are 2 out 4 in the last report card. Teacher�s comments are most related to focus problems and requiring reminders throughout the day.

As far as reading levels, she reads at 5th grade level, her math test scores high. I am having difficulty understanding her low grades given her measured high test results. I almost feel like teacher dropped 1-2 points from each and every grade because of her focus issue.

As far as focus problems at home, yes, she requires multiple reminders. I totally agree with our teacher. We make sure she is not signed up to many activities so she has time to finish her homework. She finishes her homework every day including optional/challenging parts of homework. We definitely think she is doing much better in terms of focus at home comparing to a few months ago.

We have requested a meeting with the teacher and meeting tomorrow. Any ideas on how to approach her? Even though I agree with teacher on the issue, I don�t agree that the report card grades fairly.

Thanks in advance..

I think I would state that you're concerned to see your daughter has just 2's, and ask the teacher how grades are determined (it is, after all, different than it used to be) and specifically what your daughter would need to do differently to bring up her grades.

Since she's in the gifted program, she may be measured against higher standards than previously (in our program 3rd graders are graded to 4th grade standards, for example). And if this is her 1st year in gifted, that may be a big stretch from last year.

But, it also could be that since she's not "focusing" perhaps she is not completing all the work that grades are based on. I know the case with my daughter, who was upset with her grade for math: her teacher told her that she (the teacher) knew that DD knew the work very well, but that she if she wasn't demonstrating her knowledge by completing and turning in her work, the teacher couldn't legitimately give her a better grade regardless.

*sigh* This is why I prefer the traditional grading methods. None of this ridiculous wishy-washy opinions weighing on the grade.

Personally, I'd go in and kill her with kindess and concern. "Oh my GOSH, Ms. Teacher! It looks like my daughter is just having a TERRIBLE time in your class! All I've seen are her test and homework scores and those are all 100's (or whatever). What on earth can I do to help fix this situation?" Etc, etc. If she's a normal person, she'll immediately start downplaying this, with the whole "oh, no, she's doing well, she just needs to "blah"... at which point you need to follow up HARD on why, if it's just this ONE thing, are her grades so low?

I doubt you'll get her to change the grades, but hopefully you'll make her realize how ridiculous she's being.

The child's behavior should not be any sort of significant factor, if any, on their GRADES. Most schools have a separate section for behavior on the report card to relay concerns about things like lack of focus.

The first thing I'd do at the meeting is to ask how the numbers on the report card are assigned, and what they represent. Our elementary school used a "1-4" report card (rather than letter grades), and the system was not just a # vs letter, but represented very different concepts - "4" represented total mastery of the curriculum that was to be learned over the course of the year, so the students were actually expected to be either a 1 or 2 through at least the first semester. If this is what's up, I wouldn't put too much thought (or discussion) into the grades. If instead the numbers correlate to "A/B/C" etc grades, then ask how the grades are calculated (classwork vs tests etc) and ask where your dd is having challenges vs where she is doing well.

Also be sure to ask all the questions you can think of that have to do with the teachers' notes that your dd is having difficulty with focus in class. Try to brainstorm a way together that will help with reminders so that the teacher isn't having to remind her over and over again.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Do you know what the report card is based upon?

That might help in terms of understanding why the marks seem so different from what you'd have (otherwise quite reasonably) expected to be the case.

I doubt that the teacher will be surprised that you've asked to discuss it.

My advice to you might be a little unwelcome at this point-- but here it goes:

keep an open mind and ask for help UNDERSTANDING the report card-- what is is based upon? What kinds of data make up the marks you're seeing? Why are those things being marked so low?


Now, you may well walk away from that meeting feeling grumpy and as though the teacher is targeting your child, or as though s/he is pressuring for an ADD/ADHD diagnosis or something...

or that the grading scheme, while fair/consistent, isn't "academic" in nature, but is primarily behavioral instead.

But at least you'll know.

Thank you all for quick replies. All the feedback is very welcome :-)

In report card:
4 means exceeding expectations
3 means meets expectations
2 means inconsistent meeting expectations
1 means needs more time to develop skills

There are different sections of report card and each section has subsections: Math, Reading, Writing, Communication, Science, Social Studies, Fitness/Arts, Social Skills

Her written comments for all sections starts with hard work/improvement. She mentions 99% in math test, also talks about DD's last writing assessment being compelling. To be honest, if I only read her comments, I see a picture of a girl working hard, showing progress/improvement despite her focus issues. Then I look into the grades and see bunch of grades dropped to 2 from 3. I would like to know, if there is progress/improvement, how do the grades fall?

For ADD, I talked to our pediatrician about it and he asked me to fill our a questionnaire. According to the scores in that, she doesn't meet inattentive, just below the borderline. He thinks given DD's skills in piano and her being eligible in gifted, there is not much to worry about, but watch closely etc. I am myself not too worried about this, as she is definitely improving in many ways.

I don't wish to offend, but your detailed description actually suggests an accurate and therefore fair report. There is a big jump in expectations in elementary grades as kids are developing very fast. I had a 2E student through elementary so have received the same type of reports sometimes. The gaps became bigger as time went on. I admit it was a bit confusing initially because my DS also got A's on tests and I made sure he completed homework. However, after meeting with the teacher, the grading became clear to me. In our situation (not necessarily yours), the classwork weighed much more than the test and homework combined and DS was not able to complete all the class assignments and the test was designed to be more "basic" and expected to be aced by most students whereas the class assignments were meant to stretch so the grade was accurate.
Unless your DD has an IEP or 504 and sometimes not even then, it may be hard to convince the teacher that a child who does not complete all the classwork well should receive the same grade as a child who aces all the classwork. That may not be your DD's situation at all. My point is to enter the conversation with an open mind and approach as a request for help to bring up your DD's grades.

Grades can fall because the expectations went up. Note that "expectations" are subjective, whereas mastery of a topic or unity of study can be objective.

For example: 99% on a math test is objectively a great measure. Subjectively, if the expectation was 100%, then the 99% fell short; it did not meet expectations.

This may lead to consideration of whether the expectations are reasonable. For example: Is the expectation set at 88% for gen ed pupils, with a higher expectation (possibly 100%) for pupils identified as gifted? Some may say that the expectations ought to be made known proactively; Grading ought to be a transparent process. Parents and students ought not to be placed in the awkward and dis-empowered position of guessing how things are evaluated.

Quantum2003 - Not offended at all :-) Instead your comments gave me a different angle to look at it. Will definitely ask about how much weight goes to class work/homework etc. One question about gap becoming bigger. Do you mean it got worse in the higher grades? Hope not :S

Indigo - Totally makes sense. I just wish it was more transparent. I have an engineer mind, subjectivity makes me disappointed.

After having the discussion which others have suggested and learning how the process works, requesting/advocating for the process to be more transparent with information shared proactively may be a next step.

We actually have a somewhat similar situation... Similar type grading and allegedly no one gets a "4" until maybe the last quarter. (And I have a 2e - dysgraphia and Ehelers Danlos). Honestly, I try not to let it get to me.... This year, DS constantly gets the equivalent of "3" (at least until the end of last when he got his "4s") and yet his achievement scores are so high. For example, in math, he constantly scores in the 93rd%ile on the WIAT, KTEA, and the WJIII and yet he has only ever gotten a 3 this year (though he ended last year with a "4"). In reading he is the highest reader in his class and has scored in the 4th grade level on a variety of reading tests (DRA, QRI, WJIII, etc) and yet he only got a "3" I find that odd. I also find this teacher seems to really tend to downplay where he is and his accomplishments/achievements. I get this vibe from her. But I don't let it get to me. Grades mean little in elementary school. I actually tend to keep his report card from him because he gets a little demoralized when it seems like the report isn't reflective really of where he is. And he keeps getting all those "needs work" on things like "listening" and "following directions" etc.. Our school calls those measures "qualities of a learner," which I think the teacher wants me to be more concerned about (b/c she'll draw my attention to them or reference them at the conference) but I barely look at those. I usually forget to look at them as they mean nothing to me... In fact, the better he does on those measures the more I'd be worried he was becoming a mindless compliant zombie. LOL. There is no "creative" on there, no "willing to take risks" on there, no "thinks outside the box" or "questions authority and thinks critically" on there - quite the opposite. So I try not to let it get to me.

Hope that helps a little.

I agree that going in with an attitude of wanting to understand the grading system is the way to go. I have done this before with really good results, the teacher was very open to sharing.

For perspective, these grades in Elementary school may not be that important to your child's overall school/college/life experience. There definitely is fair/not fair, etc, but when building rapport with a teacher and school, it might not be the battle you want to choose.

I have heard through the grapevine that our school's teachers are NOT supposed to give out 4's unless there is clear evidence that a 4 is deserved. Someone above them gives this pressure not to give the high grades. This means that most children who are doing very well in school only get 3's. Now, many of our academically talented children may deserve the 4, but the teacher may not see evidence of that (because the tests they have don't show anything above what they would grade as a 3, etc)...

I agree with your opinion that the behavior grades may belong in a different section than academic skills, but I still recommend going in with a good attitude. You may find that just by working with the teacher, s/he will get to know your child better and be able to give higher grades next term.

Good luck with your meeting!

Thanks so much, I will report back after the meeting tomorrow.

Irena - Your comment definitely helps. Maybe I should understand how it is calculated (for my own sanity), but try not let it get to me or DD...

I didn't show her grade report to her as well. Just two weeks ago, she had a 2 page math homework. 1 page required, 1 page optional (with challenged problems). She finished required work and half of optional part, then it was sleep time. The first thing she told me in morning was that she didn't finish the all of challenge part and if she could finish it after eating her breakfast quickly. Then she finished it proudly and went to school. And now, how can I show her the report card with actually dropping grades? :-S

Please don't worry unnecessarily regarding my gaps comment. It was generally true for my DS but he had ADHD and dysgraphia and was in a stand-alone GT classroom. Your DD may hit her groove at any time as there are wide ranges in the development schedule for maturity and executive functioning. The output expectations went up considerably year by year and it became more difficult for him to keep up with the output (input was no problem). However, he eventually qualified for an IEP so that exceptions could be made for him. Second grade was when the first signs appear for DS.

Awww,sweet little thing! Yes, this is kind of what we have. DS does all of the "enrichment" He ALWAYS tris the extra challenge part of the test and will work on it for hours if allowed, etc... And sometimes I feel like all this teacher ever notices is the negative. She is very focused on what she doesn't like. (Incidentally, she was pushing the adhdh thing too.) I think for some teachers, even many teachers, the kid that gets the "4" is the kid that is "compliant." The kid that fits neatly into the box. I feel like my son's teacher, if she could, would totally say to me "I don't care how smart you kid is and how far above the others in the class he isn't a 'good little compliant boy' who sits still and doesn't argue so I am not giving him the "4." The "4" is reserved for the kid who walks down the hall with hands behind his back quietly. The 4 is for the kid who doesn't argue with me when I tell him octopi is the plural of octopus or when I tell him that "a, an, the" are not adjectives."

My thing I focus on is his achievement tests as long as they are consistently high and consistently show progress, I try to disregard the report card grades. As I really think elementary school grades are too subjective in general.

Exactly as Irena says-- and just note that sometimes our kids wind up with.... well, the Russian figure-skating judge, for lack of a better way of putting that.

Also worth noting is that a skill versus EF gap may be APPARENT in HG children until quite late in adolescence-- in part this is because the asynchronous development is most striking in this pair of domains. That is, they give the IMPRESSION of being older, and if anything, many of them have barely age-appropriate EF that are slower to develop.

I gather that ultimately this is a developmental thing with HG+ people, and it's not indicative of ADD/ADHD necessarily. We're seeing our DD's EF catching up ONLY NOW. She's 14, and her EF is hovering between what would be appropriate for 13-18yo, roughly. Varies depending upon the day, truthfully. She also finds it a lot harder to stay attentive when the work/task is too easy.

About elementary grades...

With our DD in K, 1st and September through January of 2nd we got similar reports. Competences in English, Maths and Science that we knew she had were apparently absent from her school work. We decided that a) grades at these ages count for nothing b) confirmation bias means the elementary teachers are only tuned into evidence showing that kids do not have skills because most do not have the early blooming skills that our kids have c) the teachers have to put in something as a learning need it seems.

By not challenging our DD's teachers over this because at the end of the day we knew she did have the 'missing' skills for a couple of years or so teachers were a lot more supportive when we presented evidence of both her aptitude and her achievements in February of 2nd grade. Then we got the 'So that's why she didn't want to do the extra worksheets!' And a total about face from them because the confirmation bias now reversed its polarity LOL

Wrt the perceived wandering attention IMO, you should do more testing as your DD's apparent lack of focus may be lack of challenge sufficient to hold her focus.

We had a similar experience with DS in grade 1. At the first report card we were urged to test him for ADHD-I. We tested and he came out gifted/LD (WISC subcategories ranged from 2%tile to 99.6%tile). Observing him in class last year I can see why the teacher jumped to that conclusion as well as why he his grades were horrible. He simply didn't do most of what they were grading him on.

That said, the comments being good bodes well IMHO and it could just be a picky teacher/grading scale. In our case the comments were almost all negative (sometimes comically so since I knew he was capable of so much more at home but they had no idea). Good luck!

You've gotten a lot of great insight into various elementary grading methods, but I'd add one more factor. In some schools the 1-4 scale is also reflective of the amount of support a child needs. For example...
4 - Needs Little to No Support
3 - Needs an Expected Amount of Support
2 - Needs More Than Average Amount of Support
1 - Needs a Concerning Amount of Support

You might have two students who average 90% on tests. In high school these kids would probably get the same grade (all other factors being equal) but in elementary school teachers are also looking at the amount of support each child was given. Perhaps one child seemed to get the concept easily and was given enrichment, while the other needed quite a bit of one-on-one instruction and practice. They both ultimately made the same grade on the test, but the report card reflects the fact that one child needs more support to actually make this grade, while the other seemed to grasp the concept easily and showed the ability to extend with enrichment exercises.

I am listening to this podcast:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/colorado-gifted/id650064362?mt=2

It's very good and seems very relevant to this discussion. Hope it helps...

How is her day structured? When my son's recess was an hour after he got to school, well, that didn't work out all that well for him behavior-wise. It took them a while for the light bulb moment and when they moved it to a more appropriate time, a lot of behavior issues for everyone were much improved.

The other thing that affects his behavior is cereal choices. I try not to let him eat red food dyed cereals for breakfast. I notice less behavior reports when I monitor sugar/dye in cereal.

The other suggestion is to ask pointed questions about when she's lost focus. Is it certain subjects? Certain times of the day? Maybe she gets a little less focused before lunch because she's hungry?

Good luck!

We just had a similar experience with DD's report card. Several "beginning to understand"s for things we know she's proficient in, at least. She's in the highest groups for language arts and yet gets only "proficient"s rather than "expert"s on some; I'm guessing they're leaving room for improvement for the final term, and just don't really know her yet, which is something we've recently been feeling, sadly. She doesn't react we'll to being put on the spot, so I'm sure it's harder for the teacher to see (we have also had long term maternity leave subs BOTH years so far). I know DD spaces out and has been coming up with her own methods to help herself focus, like singing songs in her head as she copies spelling words there are just so many learning centers and she gets distracted

How did the meeting go?

For this one, after not reading the OP or the thread, I am going to propose that a large plate overflowing with freshly baked chocolate chip cookies is an excellent solution.

I am always getting reports for as saying his next step is to learn x when he has been able to do x for ages.

This is sort of what we have always had to deal with. The report would show mastery of counting to 20, but wouldn't be marked for mastery of counting to 50 or 100, even when they could easily do these things. The explanation we received was that the teacher hadn't taught those things yet, so they couldn't mark it on the report yet. How ridiculous!

We start actual grades in 3rd grade, so hopefully the OP is in a similar situation and next year there will be no more subjective grading for her DD.

Side note -
objective - "not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion."

Even with (objective) actual grades this will not always stop some teachers from continuing to grade based on behaviors and perceived notions vs. the student proving they know the material. BTDT!

Hello all,

First of all, thanks so much for all support and feedback. I can not say that how much your feedback gave me food for thought.

We have met yesterday afternoon and it took me a while to absorb all the information I received from our teacher. Overall, it was great and I am so glad I met with our teacher and I believe she felt the same way.

Overall, it seems like her lack of focus pretty much dropped all her grades about 1-2 points. It seems like they have been doing STAR testing every six weeks. Even though her math results are progressing upwards (nevertheless her math grade dropped as well), there is a slight decrease in her reading tests. Even though it's not mentioned at all in her grade report, teacher thinks she is struggling with reading comprehension. Since it's her first year in gifted program, the material got much richer than last year and has been tough on many students in the class. I wish I knew about this before, so that I can help my DD in timely manner.

She suggested talking to her about focusing better and she will have a talk with her today as well. It seems like DD has been asking her to move her to another table, so she is going to move her to a quitter table. Our teacher also promised me to send her STAR results so I can monitor her progress as well (vs. having a shock moment when I see the grade drops).

As part of reading comprehension, she suggested to read poetry, fable and talk to her about those. In this area, I am looking to find a good tutor as I am no good in poetry. I feel a good/experienced teacher can help DD better than me.

Overall, I see some hard work ahead of us for DD to work on progressing reading comprehension. I also see that I will be better informed next time.

quitter table??

Oopps, spelling mistake: "Quieter table"

LOL.

Leyla, I'm glad you met with the teacher and got some answers. I hate those new 1-4 reports because I am never sure what they mean, and on top of that, our conference now are "student goal setting" conferences, which I find to be completely useless to me as a parent.

Granted, I didn't talk to your ped, but I'm a little skeptical of the apparent reasoning. My daughter is the world's most ADHD child and that hasn't stopped her from qualifying or being intently involved in activities she likes. Just saying, unless your pediatrician has actual expertise with ADD/ADHD or 2E kids, I would take that particular opinion with a grain of salt, keep my eyes peeled, and if there are further concerns, see someone who really has some expertise in this area.

Good point Aufilia. DD has a yearly checkup next month and I will definitely bring it up again to our pediatrician. Do you have any doctor recommendation around Eastside?

We used Elizabeth Smith for neuropsych testing. She may be more than you need, and she has a long waiting list, but you could try contacting her. Her office is in downtown Bellevue. She definitely "gets" gifted kids, and she had a great rapport with both of mine.

Thanks so much.