This just in from the asst. superintendent: despite that my daughter is 4 grade levels ahead in reading and 2 in math, he won't agree to accelerate her even one grade level in either subject because it's "against district policy." Huh?! I'm so frustrated-- the principal last year assured me she'd do subject accelerations, but then she [ETA: the principal] was sent to a different school. As I said elsewhere, I'm still trying to avoid a total grade acceleration, but absolutely want her to be educated appropriately using pull-outs.

I'm in NY. No IEPs for gifted here, right? What can I do to fight this?

She is in a different school in the same district? Why the school change?

Bummer. I would ask to see the official policy in writing.

We are also in NY and have the same story, though here they also don't allow grade skips. It depends on the district- there are plenty of threads and advice here about challenging such policy, but we gave up and concentrated on ways to make things work despite the policy (our district has a well-known and successful legal team and is notoriously hard to deal with in legal matters).

In some ways, it may give you more leverage for flexible plans on their part- if you don't allow x, what are other options to help this situation? (Unfortunately for you, if they are suggesting skipping that may be their sole answer, in which you will have to make the alternative suggestions yourself).

I would repeat the advice to look ahead as well- for us, each progressive year has gotten better and easier with more options available. Elementary was certainly the hardest- much tougher to accommodate and the chasm between our kids and the pack seemed enormous, and the whole year can hinge on one teacher. In middle school, a few elementaries come together and suddenly there are a few more kids in the neighborhood, if you know what I mean. We are looking forward to high school, where two middle schools come together, as we know there will be a few more near peers, or at least near enough. We also have some awesome non-academic things going on through school that have helped tremendously- very strong music and art programs, fantastic technology classes and computer classes, and several academic clubs/teams which are well-run and competetive (in a good way).

ETA: some teachers may be willing to bend the rules under the radar- we had teachers arrange for DD to go to a reading classroom 2 grades up in early elementary, and I am certain it was arranged between the 2 teachers, not sure if they included anyone in administration in the plan, though I suspect not. (Dd ultimately refused that plan, so there were no repercussions). We definitely got more help from the people in daily contact with our kids than from the higher-ups.

Get the book From Emotions to Advocacy.

In the meantime, I would ask to see the policy. And politely create a paper trail as you go.

When you say she is four grades ahead in reading and two in math, do you mean she is actually working at those levels or that on tests her grade equivalent scores are at those levels?

Good question.


also a great idea:



If this is factually correct, it would be a first, so far as I can tell. I mean, I've heard of schools UNWILLING to do it, and I've heard of districts that have an UNofficial reluctance to do it... but a specific PROHIBITION? Not that I've seen.

I'd also be thinking over your "Plan B" and "C" here. That is, if they ARE willing to consider radical acceleration, but not subject acceleration-- and, by the way-- what exactly do you mean by "subject acceleration" and if it isn't accomplished with in-class differentiation, then-- truly curious-- why is a series of pullouts during each day preferable to moving her into a classroom where she spends most of her time with older children?

Echoing what others have said... anytime anyone tells me, "It's against our policy," the first thing I want to do is see the policy. Because:

- "It's against our policy" is frequently incorrect... the person may have an imperfect understanding of what the policy says, or they may be lying to avoid further discussion.

- Often a policy not only says what they won't do, it also says what they will, so reading it is the only place to discover those alternatives.

And then, there are more... complicated situations, like the one we found ourselves in, where what the policies say and what actually happens are totally different things. In our case, a full-year acceleration was the goal. We have a district policy that outlines the process for full-year acceleration, so we invoked that... and nobody in the school system would participate, no matter how hard we tried. Then we heard that a family had pulled their child, homeschooled a year ahead, and re-enrolled their child in school with the grade skip accomplished. This flies in the face of a written policy that says they'll only accept transfer students at those grade levels at the grade that's appropriate for their age... yet the child was accepted, no questions asked. We followed their plan.

Agreed. Several have asked, and I'll reiterate... test scores? In addition to helping the teachers/administrators see your daughter's unique intellectual profile, test scores may also help them avoid...
as her test scores will show her unique needs.

To everyone aside from indigo, thank you. I wouldn't have even thought to ask to see the actual policy. I've never had to go beyond the principal on an issue before, so this will be a first.

I would prefer pull-outs for a bunch of reasons, but one of the main ones is that I do love her current teacher and she's trying hard now to do appropriate enrichment. The main issue is that she has to teach the class phonics and basic math, and that has to be deadly boring for my DD. I'd like to have her pulled out during those times so she can work on something else while the class is doing things that are significantly below her level.

To indigo, I didn't say anything inconsistent, and I'm sorry you see it fit to point out that-- yes, dear Lord, I got divorced-- or to insinuate that I'm lying.

My daughter was in a different school district last year where they didn't know what to do and suggested she move to a school with a better gifted program if I didn't want to skip her. Before I made the move, I met with the principal of her current school. Terrific lady, and we had three separate meetings to discuss the situation, ending up deciding that subject accelerations would be the way to go. That principal then got moved to another school within the district unexpectedly at the end of the year, so she was no longer going to be my daughter's new principal this year.

I thought that would be okay, and that I'd just need to explain to the interim principal what we had agreed on. Instead, he told me he had to ask the superintendent of educational services, who said it was against district policy to do subject accelerations.

Now... what was that you were saying about my personal life and how that affects people's desire to respond to me? Really? That's what you want to do here? How about if I tell you that her dad threw me across the room when she was a baby, then stole my savings account, and I've scraped together enough for rent in various places until finally finding our "forever home" in the only nearby district known for its gifted program because I want her to have a good education? If you still want to judge me for that, go ahead.

Yes, she is a first grader TESTING on a 5th grade level in reading. As of the beginning of kindergarten, she tested on a 3rd grade level in math and hasn't been tested again, though of course she's moved up since then, so I'm being conservative when I say she's two grades above in math. Maybe it's three now.

And yes, she doesn't complain about being bored unless you ask her. What's your point? Why are you looking for ways to stir the pot when everyone else here responded with thoughtfulness and decency?

Is there a district gifted/talented coordinator? That is who we mostly dealt with when we were discussing these issues when my DD was accelerated. As it turned out, there was a district policy about acclerations that was brand new and no one had used it before, so the principal, school psych, etc. weren't even aware of it. They had a "process" kids needed to go through with classroom observations, ability testing, achievement testing, etc (and they had score cut-offs, for instance scoring 98th-99th percentile) and it had been more informal previous to this new policy. However, I would imagine that in your case the asst. superintendent would know what the policy is. I'd still ask to see it in writing, though. It must be frustrating that you were told one thing, and now that you are actually there you are being told something else.

Grade equivalent scores are tricky. They don't indicate *mastery* of grade level material, only that the child got the same score as a fifth (or third or whatever) grader at the 50th percentile got. Students at the 50th percentile have *not* mastered grade level material. Mastery is generally indicated at about the 90th percentile or above.

Just to get a general idea about the difference, a student scoring at the 5th grade level in reading has likely mastered 2nd grade reading and a student scoring at the 3rd grade level in math has likely mastered 1st grade math.

So what this means is that grade equivalent scores should not be used to make placement decisions. School officials know this, and generally don't pay attention to parents who come in demanding acceleration based on them.

That's not to say that acceleration isn't warranted, it just means that you want to be sure that the student will be capable of mastering the material presented in the higher grade. A combination of looking at scores from above level testing and observations about what the student is actually capable of doing are more accurate ways to determine appropriate placement.

As the others suggested, finding out what the policy actually is would be a good first step. The next step would be getting your child assessed (if you haven't already) where one of the tests done is an achievement test two grades above her current grade level (or one grade above the level you think she should be placed). So if she's in 1st grade now, have her take the 3rd grade test for placement in 2nd grade subjects. Have it scored against 3rd grade norms. Then use the Iowa Acceleration Scale to see if it ends up indicating that she is a good candidate for acceleration. (The IAS is actually for whole grade acceleration, but it will also work for subject acceleration.) Perhaps data that go beyond grade equivalent scores will bolster your argument for subject acceleration in the eyes of the school officials.

Mine doesn't complain of boredom either - last term was the first time I have seen him sucking his thumb since infancy though and his tantrums are worse and more frequent now than when he was a preschooler.

The age/grade equivalent thing is tricky though as it tends to indicate how well a child of that grade would do in the test your child did rather than how well your child would do in the advanced grade (when ds6 did his testing some of his grade equivalents were post high school). If your child has had out of level testing that is different though (and great because it doesn't seem to be that common).

My sympathies with the principal being sent to another school (the initial post made me think it was your child who had been sent to another school - hence some of the confusion). I know how insanely annoying it can be to think you have everything sorted and then have something like that happen. Is there any chance you can find her and get advice?

Personal research including reviewing policy is often a first step not an escalation. Parents often find and review the policy on their own. Policies are often linked from the district website, and parents can usually browse and print them.

There was discussion of inconsistency on your last thread in which you first stated you did not wish your daughter to have whole grade acceleration, then later shared your daughter did not want acceleration. Similarly this post seemed to be at odds with information in your previous thread; possibly the details now shared explain and clarify the continuity.

actually you pointed that out or forum readers would not have known.

Unfortunately your story has been difficult to follow in part due to inconsistency, anger, and emotion.

This is where having a paper trail may be helpful. The papers would usually include collected test scores, current policy/practice, and friendly e-mails to meeting participants which recap your meeting discussions. Have you considered contacting the former principal to see if she may be able to advocate for your daughter, on the strength of the rapport you built with her?

Providing this complete picture prior to asking for input in a public forum may be helpful.

I reflected on your statements to the public forum... inconsistency, offensive language, emotional, defensive. It is much easier to provide helpful information when the educational facts are clearly presented, and when there is not concern that an OP may lash out if they do not appreciate what is shared based on the limited information initially provided.


Congratulations on your new home.

Some may wonder how this district (or any district) has come to be known for its gifted program. For example: Was the school or district featured in a book? In newspaper coverage? Magazine articles? High School Rankings? What specific hallmarks or features is the gifted program known for? Are these strengths of the gifted program documented in policy and practice statements?

That's what we all want and have found to various degrees. Because we know how difficult it is or can be, we volunteer our time on forums to help in the outreach to help others.

This was recapping discussion from your earlier thread. ... brings to mind an often repeated saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".' On the other hand, if you believe your daughter's lack of mentioning boredom indicates she may already be resigned and underachieving, then IQ tests may be of some help.


Sorry, no. You sound stressed and I do not wish to add to your stress. In turn I ask you to consider that friends are not necessarily those who tell you what you'd like to hear, and people are not judging you if they speak very directly.

As others have mentioned, information can be very helpful. Perhaps independent testing isn't in the cards. Would the school district do IQ or achievement testing?

Figuring out what your daughter needs can take some time. I believe we are all trying to share what we have learned and experienced, because the journey of parenting these kids is not a common one and there's a great deal of mythology far too many that educators (and the general population) believe to be facts about gifted children.

Have you seen this article about advocacy? http://print.ditd.org/young_scholars/Guidebooks/Davidson_Guidebook_Advocating.pdf

It's long but very good. Might be worth going through as time and your energy levels permit.

Another crazy (yet perhaps useful) idea just occurred to me. You could try calling the principal you met with prior to moving your daughter to the current school. Although she is at a new school, she may be able to share some tips or ideas.

This is actually a valid question that, I believe, indigo asked to better understand how your daughter is responding to the pace of coursework psychologically. That is an age where perfectionism, imposter syndrome, and suppression of self-identity begin to surface in children whose needs aren't being met academically at school. Emotional well being is a key driver in the Iowa Acceleration Scale of gauging the appropriateness of acceleration/skipping.

With all due respect, I can appreciate that you are under stress trying to create the best possible situation for your daughter. However, this community is built on respectful communication, and I would urge you to review the community standards if you intend to become a regular member of the forum. (See the tab labeled "conduct".)

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/ubb/faq.html

Regarding achievement tests: they just started doing the Woodcock Reading Mastery test with her today... is that a good indicator?

Last year, the old school district called in a reading specialist who ran a battery of tests (maybe that was also the Woodcock-- I never asked) and just ended up stopping when they realized she had mastery on a 3rd grade level. They said it was pointless to test beyond that because they couldn't give her material in the beginning of kindergarten that was above 3rd grade-- they felt it would be too subject-inappropriate, so they taught her at guided reading level O. This year, she's independently reading on guided reading level U. I'm not sure what the Woodcock test is in relation to the benchmarking tests... they just sent home a paper asking my permission for them to do that test with her, so I said it was fine. I figure whatever tests they're willing to do are fine with me-- it can only help me show that she needs higher-level work.

Her teacher is doing something terrific with her right now that I'm really psyched about: They're keeping a back-and-forth journal where they write to each other about books. I'm excited to have someone who cares enough to do that with her.

For math, they gave her some kind of achievement test at the beginning of kindergarten and said she mastered 1st and 2nd grade (over 90%) and had a passing grade for 3rd grade (around 70%). Again, I don't know what kind of test it was... I never thought to ask. I knew she was way ahead in reading, but I honestly didn't know she was that far ahead in math, too, considering I never taught it to her beyond the basics. I still have no idea where she picked up so much of it. YouTube, I guess! I don't believe she's made significant strides in math in the last year, but again, I guess I won't know until they try testing her again.

Blackcat, good question about a g/t coordinator. There's a parent group for g&t students, which I just joined, but I'm not aware of a staff member who coordinates for the district... I'll ask the president of that group. I know the district really is good for gifted students from 4th grade on, but there's nothing in place before that, and I sure don't want to have her wait that long.

ConnectingTheDots and puffin, I have been thinking about contacting the former principal again... she was so good and so in-tune with us. I know she was upset to leave and she did reach out to me before the year started to make sure my daughter had a good teacher. I do still have her contact information. I think you're right... maybe I can just ask for her ideas on the current situation. The superintendent of education (or whatever his title is) hasn't responded back to me at all, though maybe he's waiting to see the Woodcock results. I know she didn't finish that test today... guess they're going to continue on Monday.

Thank you also for the advocacy link (no, haven't read it yet) and the book recommendation. I've been winging it and haven't read much about the topic yet. I will.

A good friend is also suggesting that I try for an IEP even though I read here that it's not applicable for gifted kids in NY. She seems to think that's not always true. I'll look into it.

One other question: If the district holds firm and refuses to accelerate her in reading and math, do you think it's useful if I ask for her to be sent to the resource room or library during the phonics and math lessons? That was another thing a friend suggested and I've been mulling it over. It would still mean getting her out of class during the subjects that would bore her, but wouldn't achieve my goal of helping her meet kids who are closer to her level. I'm not sure if it's a "good enough" solution.


-------------
Indigo, this is my last response to you before I figure out the "ignore" button.

Again, I have not said anything "inconsistent." Saying that I did not want her to skip a whole grade is not inconsistent with also saying that SHE does not want to skip the grade. It's just additional information.

You were downright gross in suggesting that "some people" would not want to respond to me because of the "instability" in my personal life. What a mean thing to say about the other people on this board, who do not seem to be the types to want to shun me based on the idea that I'm a single mom. Why would you ever point that out as a cause for people not to respond?

And again, the "inconsistency" you imagined was based on a single confusing pronoun-- simple enough to ask, "What did you mean by that?" instead of pointing out a laundry list of reasons why "some people" may not want to respond to me, despite the fact that many people just had-- quite politely and decently. I have no idea why you randomly decided to stir the pot. The only anger I've felt here is toward you, the person who suggested I was lying and then attacked my personal life for no discernible reason.

I've never been outwardly shunned for being a single mom before. And yes, it upsets me to read such a low blow. There is no other way to take what you said. I'm not sure how you're taking the moral high ground here and pretending you weren't being judgmental. Saying that people may not respond because of the instability of my private life-- based solely on the fact that I said I was divorced and my child has moved around a lot-- is flat-out judgmental. My friends don't kick me down. They lift me up. That's part of what friendship is. I am lucky to have many wonderful friends.

-----

Again, thank you to everyone else. I'm sorry to have stepped in this as my intro to the board.

Aquinas, I don't believe I've been disrespectful. I strain to find how any of THIS, however, is respectful in any way:


I also don't understand why the fact that my daughter isn't complaining about boredom unless asked would be an appropriate reason not to answer my request for advice. I understand that it's a valid question to ask someone; I just fail to see how it can be used as a reason not to respond. My daughter also doesn't complain when she has the flu. That doesn't mean she doesn't have the flu. It just means she's a wonderfully cheerful kid.

It has been difficult piecing the educational facts together given the information provided.


This is the first time you've mentioned being a single mom. Meanwhile I reflected on your statements in the public forum.

Your thread "Advice needed... profoundly gifted 1st grader" seemed fraught with anger directed at others. Today in this thread your anger seems focused on me, possibly stemming from your dislike of one sentence among all of the ideas and information shared in these threads.

I understand you are experiencing stress, and do not wish to add to that.

I am not familiar with the Woodcock Reading Mastery Test. From what I could find online, despite its name, it sounds as if it is just like any other achievement test in that it reports percentile rank and grade equivalents as compared to national norms.

I think *you* need to have a good understanding of your daughter's achievement levels and the tests used to determine them before you can expect to get anywhere with the school officials. If you don't know what tests she took or what the scores she got mean, it's going to be pretty difficult to convince an administrator that she needs acceleration, especially when they obviously don't want to provide it.

I've read along here and your other thread, and I'm confused. School wants to do grade-level acceleration and you only want subject-level acceleration but you are unhappy with the amount of subject-level acceleration they offer because it's not enough?

So this is not a case of a child needing acceleration and school not providing it, but rather a school testing the child and finding she is several grades above agemates and parent refusing the method in which they want to offer that acceleration.

As mentioned by others, if you aren't familiar with the testing done (lots of good info at hoagiesgifted about many tests) or what the results mean, it will be nearly impossible to advocate for something different than school is proposing.

One of the best tools to determine if a child needs acceleration is the Iowa Scale of Acceleration. You can order copies on Amazon. It is data driven and considers whether or not child wants acceleration. You can go through that scale to find research based evidence about which approach will best serve your child.

However, I think (like many of the others have indicated) that you are picking a futile battle in trying to dictate to the school the method they should use in teaching your daughter at an appropriate level. There is a point where a child is too far out of level to be meaningfully accommodated in the age appropriate classroom.

Right. Well, they have all the tests in her files, so I can find out. But they're not arguing with the results-- they're agreeing that she's way, way ahead, but saying that enrichment or a full skip is the only thing they can do, not subject acceleration.

No, it's that they won't subject accelerate at all. Only a full skip or enrichment in the classroom. I'm asking for them to bump her out to a 2nd or 3rd grade class for reading and math.

I must have missed this. Have they said why? Perhaps the logistical issues surrounding subject acceleration in an elementary setting are difficult to overcome?

I'm wondering if the OP has just encountered a dictrict that doesn't want to deal with individual differentiation and would rather suggest skipping, just as some say "You really should homeschool this child"? It would be unusual, but one could see it being possible. Maybe they just see it as easier.

OP, so you have achievement test results but no IQ results? It would help us here on the board to have IQ numbers. You used the term profoundly gifted, which has a pretty specific definition and is probably why most posters agreed that major accommodations were needed. I am not at all trying to say that your child is not PG, but both my kids were reading at the 5th grade level in K (not sure about math) and neither is PG. (Your job is going to be easier if she is not PG...) If she is PG, you could consider going to DYS and asking for help, which may well be really useful.

BTW, I apologize that you are getting some unpleasant replies. Not typical of the board.

I would go for the full skip. It is a decision that the school is unlikely to undo on their own. If you got single subject acceleration this year, you might be turned down next year because of a new policy or administrator. I think that happened recently to someone here.

It sounds like she is a cheery kid. I bet she'll be fine with it. If she maintains her accelerated pace it could be the first of several skips which is fine.

This is just what happened in my son's case this year. Getting the math acceleration he needed was logistically impossible. When you have 1000 kids who all have to go to Special Areas (PE Music, Art) and all have to get in and out of the cafeteria for lunch, all have to have an uninterrupted (by state law) 90 minutes language arts block and then add in the logistics of the fact that my son is in a program that is within the bigger school where half the day is in Spanish so the Dual Language classes have a completely different schedule. So there was no 4th grade class having math when he was having math or could have math when he had math or they couldn't move 3rd grade dual language math. It is just too complicated.

We then discussed and eliminated several online options that were approved providers for the district (he would stay in the 3rd grade class and do his math over on the computer when his class had math). They were fine providers...they just weren't quite right for him. Doesn't mean that online math acceleration might not work for tons of others.

So then the district gifted coordinator put the whole grade skip back on the table. For my son, I think it is going fine. He did know several children in his new class because last year he was in aftercare (and he is kind of a social butterfly who attracts people like a magnet). Also his best friend and my son attend and afterschool activity once a week together and used to do a Saturday activity together (we might start that up again). So he is still maintaining that relationship.

I haven't heard ANYTHING saying that this isn't going well. I am at the school daily to volunteer. He did get a D on an essay but even that doesn't mean that it isn't going well because I knew that was going to be the one area where he was going to have to work extra hard. Oh and Spanish too just because he was losing a year of vocabulary and comprehension.

It is much easier to subject accelerate in middle and high school because they ring the bells and change classes all at the same time and also there are additional online providers at the middle and high school level that are better fits (so that is an additional option). And in high school classes are already multi-grades (Spanish I can have any grade level of students) so it isn't so odd.

Yes, further information at this link- http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/

Note that a listed form of assistance to DYS parents, free guidebooks are made available to the general public. This includes the advocacy guidebook which another parent has mentioned.

Whether in the DYS program or not, free access to valuable research and information is available to all on the Davidson Database (http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/)

Sweetie, we had a similar experience.

Because we wanted to subject accelerate in math and language arts (the latter his area of strength) it was strongly suggested we simply grade skip our ds as well. I think the scheduling difficulties were a consideration...

Hello everyone - please be respectful on this thread or I will be forced to close it. Please see the forum rules as a reminder: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/ubb/boardrules/v/1.html.

Best,
Mark

I ran into this general issue with our son. As I worked my way through the school & district staff, I learned to preface my comments with, "I know my son is getting straight A's, is well-behaved, is adored by teachers and students, loves school and from all measures is having a grand old time... BUT... I am *not* happy with the situation."

Some PG kids pester their parents to install weapons-grade physics laboratories in their bedrooms in their thirst for learning. Others write Tolstoy-esque tomes by flashlight under their covers at night.

And then others, like my wonderful PG son, are tickled pink & purple to just endlessly coast, enjoying the frivolity along the way. My son never complained about boredom at school, and even when pressed, he was generally without complaint.

But he was sure getting addicted to those easy A's and would recoil in abject horror when faced with the slightest challenge.

The trend was clear... and having lived through the experience myself, I worked diligently to bring some gosh-darned struggle into that boy's life.

I know that the OP is currently not in favor of a full skip, so I'll not press too much in that direction... B-U-T... I will throw out the teensy possibility that if the young lady is that far advanced in Reading and Math, perhaps there exists a similar gulf in Art, Science, or ???

We had no idea that our ridiculously verbal son was also exceedingly capable in math... because he'd never been given a similar opportunity to push forward at his own pace. But good golly, when he was finally turned loose -- wow. And after his two full skips, his love for Science blossomed, and by some freak genetic mutation he also enjoyed and excelled in Social Studies.

Yes -- he was perfectly happy just tra-la-la-ing his way through school, but had we not intervened, nobody would know how capable he truly was. Most importantly HE wouldn't have known either. But he'd sure figure out something was up when/if he got to college and slammed head-first into the ol' brick wall of reality.

Oh - and about Santy Claus. DS was skipped full-time into the 5th Grade classroom just before Christmas that year, so I spilled the beans shortly after the move. I remember kids in my 4th grade GT classroom who were ardent believers of St. Nick and who were teased mercilessly by many as a result.

Priceless.

This is my DS9. In fact, we chatted about this again just the other day. He is in a school for HG kids, which is a great fit. But he remembers what it was like in our local school. He now says he doesn't want to go to a gifted school for middle school. He says he didn't mind it when he didn't learn anything -- he could just daydream or read a book. He admits to laziness.

I forgot to tell him that most regular schools give lots of homework -- his school doesn't believe in anything other than reading a certain amount every day or finishing work you didn't finish in school. Maybe that will change his mind!

Yeah, in secondary, your choices are to either engineer a better plow, or start mindlessly pulling and hope to keep up.


Brains or brawn-- your choice. LOL.

Of course, it's often the case that you have to do a little of both, but at any rate, you can only lighten the load a bit if you've had some practice advocating for yourself and using your brain in ways that aren't-- strictly-- demanded of any children K-8.

Thanks for this great quote. I've gotta remember it and use it at our next meeting. Every other adult involved with my son says that if he's happy, I should just let him be....but I know first hand what lessons you learn from ongoing success with no real challenges.

Dandy, beautifully said. Our ds also was, well, maybe not exactly happy, coasting along, but didn't understand there was any choice. He complied, if begrudgingly (but would only show that frustration to us). And it wasn't until he took the Explore test, a test in which he could less easily hit a ceiling, that we had any idea of his capacity. Which led to finding this site which led to...an incredible amount of life-changing information.

mommajay, I am currently in a similar situation right now with my 1st grader, as I said earlier. We don't want to grade accelerate (and since he is 2e I don't think the school would let me even if I wanted to). While the district has a subject acceleration policy (unlike yours), there is just no way to utilize it because of conflicting schedules. Testing done so far shows DS has mastered first and second grade math and should be in third, but even if we just tried to move him up one grade to second, there is no teacher who could take him at the right time. The first grade teacher is going to give him a math workbook and have him do the pages where testing shows he is weak, and then move onto the next book. I am highly skeptical of this--how much time would the classroom teacher have to teach him concepts? But I don't know what else to do at this point. The teacher seems well-intentioned but disorganized so I'm not sure how it's going to work. He is also a kid who is not complaining much, with his sunny laid-back disposition, but if asked, he says he wants to work at a higher level.

Discussion above brought to mind a quote I once that seems appropriate: "The easier it is to be good, the harder it is to be great." (Paraphrased and my quick search didn't bring up the author.)

Hi! I wanted to come back and give an update.

I did wind up letting them do a full skip. I met with the superintendent and another Board of Ed person, who both strongly suggested it, saying they'd talked to every teacher and aide who'd been in contact with my daughter and it was unanimous that this would be the right thing for her. They then said we could do a 1-month trial before making a decision, and that's what sold me on it.

So she had her trial in November and it went well. The teacher is great and the work is a lot more appropriate for her. The students are not as sweet... we're encountering some cliques and such for the first time, but she has found a few nice friends and is still having playdates with some of her 1st grade friends, too. Academically, it was the right call. Socially, I'm still on the fence, but we're going for it. Having a really nice teacher has helped to balance out the fact that the kids aren't as sweet.

She's also been guaranteed a spot in the district's gifted class in 4th-5th grade, so just a year and a half until then.

Thank you for all the feedback.

That's great! Keep us posted on how it works out. A skip can seem like a very weird idea the first time it pops up. When our eldest was offered his first skip, it certainly did to us.


Yes, exactly. Has anyone else here noticed that their kids sometimes do better when given a greater challenge? Especially if it's a much greater challenge?

DD9 won her school spelling bee in mid-January. She prepared by learning 450 words, including 100 hard words at the 8th and 9th grade level (bourgeois, accoutrement, velociraptor). Today we went over them again in preparation for the regional bee next week. We'd been working on the longer list of regional words, and this was the first time in over a month she'd gone over the 8th/9th grade words. She got 94/100 correct. It took about ten minutes to get through the whole list. ETA: Well, maybe 20. But she was firing them right out.

Meanwhile, back at school, her 5th grade spelling lists lately have featured words like again, reindeer, and raisin. She does well enough in spelling at school (low As?), yet would probably do just as well if they advanced her to the 8th grade class.

I think this characteristic of very intelligent people (not just kids) is missed in our schools and in society in general. Schools look at grades: you're not getting A+++++s with garlands, which shows that you haven't mastered this stuff and you're certainly not ready to skip ahead. I suspect this conclusion seems obvious to people who don't grok giftedness (and especially the highly-or-more gifted). I've seen this in the workplace, too. Admittedly, it's more complex in a job, but still, there's a problem with over-emphasis on credentials in many hiring situations.

Glad you made it back. It took DS the first three months to fit into the social order after his skip. Primarily one or two kids were a bit defensive in response to the disruption of their fiefdoms.

Val I think I may forever regret not instantly accepting a double skip for my DD when it was unexpectedly offered...

She's just so much better suited to "swimming in the deep end" as it were...

Things sound good.

Yeah my DD groks fractions but is slow with simple arithmetic. Similarly I was shocked at how quickly she grasped the concept of a radix to get through the last room of Lure of the Labyrinth given how slow she can seem with simple arithmetic at times. She also got the '10 kinds of people in the world.... ' binary joke too. It is amazing how my DD can go from being a super smart alien given a hard challenge to the world's first surviving brain donor when given something easy.

{nodding} I'm laughing at that description, because it also describes my DD to a tee.


YES. Emphatically.

Honestly, we've never really found a situation in which our DD was truly "out of her depth."



I'm so glad to hear that the OP's situation is improved so dramatically! That's very exciting and lovely to hear.

Thanks!

And yes, my DD is like that, too-- she's into probability and fractions and algebra, but she still makes careless errors on her 2-digit addition and subtraction. I think she's better at concepts than details.