Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments AoPS math courses difficulty level

It looks like a lot of people over here who have experience with AoPS classes. DS11 mathy kid straggling in reading and LA area. Officially in the school he finished pre-algebra this year and this fall he supposed to start middle school and algebra 1 class, but we are sure he is algebra2/pre-calculus level. Our school doesn�t have anything above geometry. I am sure he will be bored in school during school year and wanted to propose to test him before each chapter and in case he shows he know it 100% give him play with AoPS Algebra and Alcumus. This summer he studes Introduction to Counting and Probability and enjoy this class very much, but it seems a lot of work. He spends ~2h every day. I think it is too much load during school year.
Does anybody know how AoPS Algebra (1/2/3) and Geometry compare to Introduction to Counting from workload and difficulty standpoint? Does it good idea to substitute school class with AoPS?

Ask on the AOPS forum for comparisons of the classes. DS is doing intro to geom right now and finding it challenging - even though he's in principle known the material for a while - but not immensely time-consuming (yet); maybe a couple of hours a week.

Can he use a computer in class? If it's possible, then having him use Alcumus rather than follow a class would give you a lot more flexibility.

What kind of home work your son has? Alcumus only or also a banch of challenging problems each week?

In our experience, C&P is much easier than the other classes listed. DS found algebra I difficult as it was his first AoPS course and hard to adjust. Algebra II was much easier than algebra I but still harder and more time consuming that C&P. Richard Rucszyk (sp?) says geometry is the hardest of the intro courses. DS agrees with that and spent many hours a week on geometry.

I think it's a good idea to substitute school math with AoPS since it provides better instruction and deeper math for kids who love math. If your DS loves doing C&P, then the workload might be manageable during the year. Depends on the kid.

Thanks kaibab.
Do you know does it still make sense to get classes if child pass “Do you need this” test? I am sure DS know all concepts they are teaching during Algebra 1 class, but maybe they have set of tricky problems require dipper understanding and other level of thinking?

Roughly 10 "challenging problems" each week, plus some Alcumus, plus some bits to read from the book. So far 8 of the problems are short-answer, automatically marked, and two are proofs for him to write which are marked (pickily!) by a human. The first few problems tend to be routine, but there have been several I haven't been able to do instantly - I've taken to looking at the challenge problems before DS does :-)

For us, whether it ends up feeling worthwhile will really depend on whether DS gets into talking to other students on the forum. He can't attend class in real time because of our timezone. It is pacing him and giving him an incentive to stick with a graded set of problems, which is good, but I could do that for him using the book.

I did wonder whether Intro to Geom might be a little easy for DS; I needn't have worried about that! One thing you could do in considering the algebra course is to get the book, and give him a selection of challenge problems from it to try. If he can do those readily, you might want to move up a level. But I can certainly speak to the fact that merely having done the material before is not a sure reason to dismiss an AoPS course.

My suggestion would be that you propose 80% be the cutoff for demonstrating mastery, and let the school negotiate up as high as 85% or 90%. Requiring 100% really feeds perfectionism, and if the school wouldn't require a kid with a B average repeat the course rather than moving on, they shouldn't require your kid to repeat the material, either.

I also wouldn't present it as "let him play," but rather "let him develop a deeper understanding of the material." I would not present it as "he will be bored," but as "he's already mastered the basics of this material, but we're hesitant to request a subject acceleration because we aren't sure what the options would be once he finishes geometry / we want to keep him with age peers / whatever."

My DD10 was supposed to have an in-class accommodation in lieu of a subject acceleration this past year, and it was not at all satisfactory, despite being fully supported by both the principal and classroom teacher. I think your plan of "let him work on this particular structured program" is more likely to succeed than the "here are some suggestions, but we're open to what the teacher comes up with" plan that we had. But there are a lot of places where any plan can break down, even with the best of intentions. "Everyone gets the same" is much easier than "one kid gets different."

AlexsMom, thanks a lot for your recommendations. We are going to ask for upgrading for geometry this year, but I don't believe it will help a lot. Child is able to master all concepts they teach year around in a couple of months and it looks like he needs something different than school is able to give him. AoPS works perfect option for him. Your tips is really valuable for negotiation with the school.

We don't have experience with the actual AOPS course, just with Alcumus. However, you may want to remember that 2 hours a day for a summer course will probably translate to less than an hour a day for a school year course.

If you believe that he has mastered Algebra 1 and Geometry and should be in Algebra 2, you should approach the school to have him tested to prove mastery of those two years of math so that he can be accelerated. There may be other options than AOPS once the school approves an acceleration.