Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments After the big meeting - what's next (and worries)

A week and a half ago, we had the big time meeting with DD9's school - AIG specialist from the district office, DD's psychologist, principal, etc. Interestingly, the principal and the AIG specialist were pro grade acceleration. DD's teacher (who has in the past suggested she needs a therapist to deal with DD's unhappiness in school/won't meet with us to discuss ways to challenge her) interrupted the meeting to say that she didn't think DD was ready for acceleration. What was really amazing was that the AIG specialist cut DD's teacher off at the knees, and went into a speech about higher level gifted kids and how they learn differently; they need more challenge. I was shocked!
Of course, everything could not be perfect. DD's big sister is one year ahead of her, and the AIG woman stated that the district, following the Iowa Scale of Accel., frowns on acceleration for kids who would move into a sibling's grade. So, she urged us to transfer DD to another grade school that she recommended so the girls would be separated. We have since learned that the school district will not transfer kids to that other school mid year. We might be able to transfer to our base school out of the magnet school the girls now attend, but this base school is just a basic school, nothing special. Also, DD (4th grade) needs to get a 75% on 3 out of 5 subjects of the ITBS 6th grade level. So, she needs to be 2 years ahead to get one year of acceleration. I purchased Bright Education's ITBS online practice tests. DD wouldn't even try the 6th grade level and received a variety of scores on the 5th grade level, having trouble when she faced items she hadn't been exposed to. DD’s big sister is upset at the fact that DD might be in her grade, but had calmed down a bit. She feels “stupid” because DD is doing as well as, and in some cases better than her in math. Testing for DD9 begins on Monday. She will have 3 days of testing, about 2 hours per day.
Our fears? A) DD won’t do well enough on the ITBS for acceleration. B) She will be stuck with a teacher who doesn’t think she can even do 4th grade work (luckily DD is AIG math and LA and SSA math so she doesn’t have this teacher for math). I do not like this teacher!!! Even the psychologist wasn’t pleased with her. C) That DD WILL get accelerated. She is the tiniest thing, and we saw giants on those middle school tours. DD held my hand so tightly on a tour!! It was interesting to read another post where IQ scores were discussed in relation to grade acceleration. DD is in the low 140s (GAI), but can she really move on up? D) She has ADHD inattentive type – will she be able to handle the extra workload? E) We have sibling issues from all this. The girls fight a lot. We have lots of worries.... Why does this have to be so complicated??????

DD has ADHD and we put her in a highly gifted program where she is mixed with kids from different grades (so some kids are 2 years older). The program seems to have similar expectations of all the kids regardless of what grade they are in or if they had been accelerated, however the teachers (so far) have been flexible and willing to put up with a lot. It has been a big shock to the executive functioning system, I think, because it is a lot of independent work, self-organization, etc. If you go ahead with this with a child with ADHD you will want to make sure the teacher she is with is understanding and willing to work with her. Otherwise you'll probably be in for more stress. But maybe not--I don't think one grade level up is a big deal. DD was accelerated so she was 8 going into fourth grade, and in classes with some 5th graders, all of them highly gifted, so she just isn't at the same level in terms of EF, maturity, attention, etc. But that's not what you would be dealing with and it would probably be Ok just going up one grade placed with "regular" kids. So she has to score in the 75th percentile, or get 75 percent correct, or what? I hope it goes well.

First up, wow! It really does seem as though there are a lot of complicated threads to tease through for you greenlotus. I do feel for you.

I thought of a number of questions as I read through your post. The big one was wondering whether any alternatives were discussed at the meeting if acceleration didn't proceed? We're there any other options raised at all given the complications with acceleration in your current setting, such as having an older sibling etc? If the girls do fight a lot, having them at separate schools could end up being a good thing but waiting until next year for a decent school doesn't sound reasonable.

It seems as though you have a major problem with your daughter's current teacher regardless. Is there any option there for change, such as another class? Can you discuss the teacher's less than supportive attitude privately with the Principal to seek a solution?

I find it disconcerting that your daughter has to be two grades ahead to get a one year skip! If she is two grades ahead she would need a two year skip.

How do you think she would cope at middle school? Can you scaffold any executive functioning problems that might arise? The physical differences look dramatic at this age but they even out. Our DD was tiny compared to her peers after grade skip and now she is taller than all her friends as she prepares for a second skip. It's not insurmountable as long as your DD doesn't have to play sports with the older kids. Even then there are yr 8s at our DDs school in the seniors team for some sports!

The fear over the testing prep is not unexpected. It is a big ask to take a test two grades up without a great deal of preparation so I am sure it looks daunting. Can you concentrate on three sections she is best at and leave the rest or do they need to see a certain level on all tests in addition to 75% on 3 of the 5?

I don't know why it is so hard. Doesn't it make your head hurt!

The sheet we were given states "equal or greater than 75% in 3 out of 5 areas assessed by the Complete Iowa Assessments".
DD9, by the way, has decided that she hates everyone in Iowa because they came up with the test!!
I dropped her off this morning and felt so horrible. Three days of testing!!!!! About 2 hours per day in the asst. principal's office. We did get the 504 set up last week so she will get to write in the booklet vs. filling in tiny ovals on the sheet.

I feel for you. This is complicated and the current teacher does sound a bit flaky.

On the testing two levels ahead: It may not be as bad as you think. You want your child who is accelerated to still be near the top of the class. So if she is testing "at grade level, or at benchmark" for two years ahead, that may be more like at the top of the class one-grade ahead.

I am not familiar with the tests you mention, but you do have two great things in your favor, a) that some people in the school are already pro-acceleration, AND b) that they are using the IOWA acceleration scale.

Much luck to you in making these very difficult conversations and decisions.

Hello ndw. No, no alternatives were discussed during the meeting. I asked the psychologist about it because she is adamant that DD gets a grade acceleration or content acceleration. She said that we will "cross that bridge when we get there" should DD not do well enough on the ITBS. She is already SSA in math and grade AIG in math and L.A. so I am not sure what could happen next. In earlier posts I mentioned that this school district will not allow a child to be SSA in more than one subject!!
I am so angry at that teacher - I certainly wish DD could move to another class. It's a very small school. The other teacher had DD10 last year, and I liked the teacher, but DD9 is very very different than her big sister. DD10 is the "perfect student" (teachers actually say this which is nice to hear as a parent but hard to deal with for a little sister). I don't want them compared. It would help if she moved to another class because she and big sister would not be in the same math class as they are now. There is a third teacher who is new - an option perhaps?
Middle school? We are looking at smaller ones with the thought that she wouldn't be lost in the crowd. She has the 504 now set up. Since it is so new, I don't know if it will help with her disorganization. I sincerely hope so!! I will say that DD is and always will be tiny. I remember that aeh stated that her daughter is small, and it all worked out. I need to get over that concern!

Finally, the test question - as I said to Blackcat, it just states that she needs the 75% on three out of the five. She has always done well on the in-school testing. I just worry about this because she hasn't had the exposure to sixth grade science, social studies, etc. She does take pre algebra outside of school and does very well so math should be ok. Her highest scores are always in the verbal/reading testing so I hope those are strong.
Ok, I need to let it play out!!! Any other advice or good wishes for high test scores welcome!

greenlotus - I have this feeling your DD will do very, very well on the testing. She probably cannot judge how she is doing on the test because she is likely having the experience of not IMMEDIATELY KNOWING EVERYTHING. That is normal for a high-achieving kiddo on an out-of-level test.

DD (3rd grader at the time) walked out of the EXPLORE clearly not as confident as she usually seems after testing. Her reaction to the test had NOTHING to do with how well she actually did - so don't drive yourself nuts and read too much into her sense of how testing is going.

Best wishes being sent your way...

Knowing the Iowa Assessments (and the predecessor Iowa Tests of Basic Skills and Iowa Tests of Educational Development), the 75% should almost certainly be 75th percentile. This entire family of tests is all about percentiles rather than raw scores or what percent of questions you got right.

And the state of Iowa is actually a lovely place to live and is full of nice people. As it happens, I have an in-law who works for the company that puts out the Iowa Assessments - next Thursday I can short-change him on the size of his pumpkin pie slice if you'd like.

Best of luck,
--S.F.

Thank you for the percentile clarification about the test!
Also - both my parents grew up in Storm Lake, Iowa - I love it there! And, please let your relative eat all the pie he can get his hands on! It's not his fault that our school district is so test happy.

Relax - don't worry so much. You don't want to freak out your DD. Remember that 75th percentile two grades above is not really much for even a moderately gifted kiddo, particularly when they are only requiring 3 out of 5 subjects. It's not a linear distribution, if you look carefully at charts for Explore or MAP, etc. For example on the MAP, a 99th percentile for math at 4th grade will be 75th percentile at 7th grade while a 99th percentile for reading at 4th grade will be 75th percentile at 11th grade.

Good luck!