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    Joined: Feb 2012
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    I DD has almost completed the EPGY program and I am looking for options on continuing beyond that. I really liked the program in that:

    1. Allows full flexibility in pace. We have some weeks where she could work 3 hrs and others where she did no week at all
    2. We do the instructing ourselves so not so much interested in the physical teacher but the methodic testing through problems and concepts.

    Have looked at EPGY, CTY, AoPs. All of them seem to go into fixed length instructor classes. And you pay the price accordingly.

    Any recommendations?

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    We never did EPGY but did SG Maths K-5 and then started AoPS with pre-Algebra.

    The classes are intense, I have backed away a bit since DD's AlgI class to give her a break so she is doing a Python class now as some of the questions were hard to solve at the end of a full school day and regular B&M homework.

    The classes are online and do involve typing but this has motivated my DD to become a better typist. She really enjoys the period between signing in and the class starting to learn new emoticons and interface with other Mathy kids that she would never have known existed.

    Then books are nicely written and my favourite part is their focus on the application of the concepts taught to solve 'real world' problems.

    The hand graded feedback has been vital in persuading DD to show her work in a methodical and structured way too, in addition to pointing out things that she had missed.

    Overall, I am extremely happy with AoPS and just wish thatmore B&M schools used its curriculum so that my DD could be challenged like that inside regular school hours.

    Last edited by madeinuk; 03/23/15 02:22 PM.

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    Portia, have you found it effective using the book and working as opposed to class which provides pacing?

    Madeinuk, what do you mean by backaway? Does AoPS give you option to slow things down? I thought it was a weekly class with HW with no option of setting your own pace.

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    The advantage of using the AoPS book/videos is that you can create whatever pacing works for you. It can be as fast as the online classes or you can do spurts and take a pause or in our case you can work through it slowly and steadily in 10 minute intervals.

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    A clarification on the AoPs online class. Is it only the 1 hour class weekly that is online? How do the kids to the homework rest of the week? Is it an online program like EPGY or do they do it on paper?

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    I love AoPS, so apologies for lengthy response. VR00, AoPS has a number of components which you can put together as best suits you:

    * Textbooks for each course, plus solutions manuals
    * Alcumus, a responsive on-line database of problems connected to the topics in most of the Intro-level courses (free)
    * Videos for all the major topics in pre-Algebra and Algebra (free)
    * On-line courses, usually 3-6 months long, with a weekly class and a specific schedule.

    We've tried a bit of all of them. After grade 4, DS10 and I did a high-speed run through the whole Pre-Algebra book, focusing on learning just enough to do the problems on Alcumus and prep for the Algebra I on-line class in October. About half-way through Algebra we had to concede it was going too fast for us to keep up with as only after-schooling. So we stopped the class and have reverted back to using an AoPS text at our own pace again.

    Texts: I love the books for all the reasons described above: this is what “Discovery Math” should be. Very little repetition: every question has a new twist to figure out. And a quirky sense of humour. As noted, Pre-Algebra is not “too hard” in the sense that it assumes nothing: it starts at 1+1 and seems to cover everything a kid might learn up to middle school (useful for us, since DS hadn't really been taught much of anything yet). But it jumps quickly into complex uses of the ideas, so you get the basics without getting stuck in them. I make extensive use of the solutions guide for Algebra (to my combined delight and dismay). AoPS presents and encourages multiple approaches, so I often check to see if there was an interesting or easier way to get there.

    Alcumus and videos: Alcumus provides practice problems and some added incentive, even for my deeply non-competitive kid. The videos are well-done, and enjoyable to watch, though DS didn't have the patience to watch many of them in pre-Algebra (we should try again in Algebra). With just the free stuff - videos + Alcumus - you can get a good overview of the material, but may only scratch the surface compared to tackling the challenge questions in the textbooks. If we'd done pre-Algebra properly (and not just the Alcumus version), we probably could have kept up with the Algebra class, but our knowledge was too shallow and rapidly obtained.

    On-line classes use all of the above resources. Students are expected to read a chapter before class, and do as many of the problems as possible/ needed afterwards. With so little repetition, skipping problems generally means missing the chance to tangle with a new concept. The weekly class time really just reviews the new chapter and works through some basic problems, but the class itself is surprisingly interactive. DS would respond to hundreds of queries - from the micro "any questions?” to complex solutions - over the course of the hour and a half. DS is an OK typist but not a fast responder. In early classes, I was unprepared for how demotivating it was that his responses were always submitted too slowly to be among the ones posted. This was almost a deal breaker for the first couple of classes. However, as the material and questions got harder, solving the problem mattered more than speed of typing the answer, and DS could often get "on the board" - and loved doing so. My DS does have writing issues, though, so for both class and text work I scribe on a whiteboard for him, so he can concentrate on content and typing in his responses.

    Multiple TAs monitor every response during class, and offer individual help if a student looks like they are struggling. The class also has its own discussion forum where both teacher and students share questions and ideas, anytime. “Marked” homework includes all the Alcumus problems associated with the chapter, plus a weekly set of about 10 challenge questions. Most are answered with a single response on-line, the same as Alcumus. One will require extensive written proof/ explanation of how an answer was developed, and will get fairly extensive and useful written feedback.

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    DS12 completed several of the AOPS courses using textbook only. I read that the online course is worthwhile so he recently began Intro to Number Theory online (he completed the book probably 1.5 to 2 years ago). Not sure if he forgot a lot or not but he says the course is quite challenging and he wants to repeat all of the courses online.

    I was looking to slow him down a little bit and this might be a good way. We will see how this course goes.

    In general, he really likes AoPS and has done a lot of FTW and Alcumus. He entered several math competitions this year and has done well.

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    Our experience with AoPS.

    Firstly, I would never have even known about it were it not for the review posted by ColinsMum on the Geometry class - kudos to Colinsmum! I read that review at a time when I was wondering what I could give DD now that she had done SG Maths through to the 5th grade while still in 2nd grade.

    My DD skipped into 4th grade September '13 so I let things lie for a term then she started the AoPS pre-Algebra I class the following February followed by the pre-Algebra II class over the late Spring/Summer and has recently completed the Algebra I class.

    The books are tightly written - I literally held DDs hand for the first couple of weeks of the pre-alg class to help her work with a decent book on her own and after two weeks she was able to throw the training wheels off and follow from the book on her own.

    The classes really rely on the book work (prep) being done prior to each class - in this way in it very similar to college and thoroughly good experience for her.

    The classes themselves are via a web based forum with moderators apparently ready to pull kids aside if they appear to lose the thread. I do not believe that my DD ever needed this because if the book work has been done the class was pretty easy and straightforward apparently.

    There are also two more aspects - the videos when Richard Rusczyk working through some problems and Alcumus which is probably where this is most similar to what I have heard of EPGY.

    The main thing that I loved about it was the focus on using Maths to solve problems. Some of the problems had my wife (way cleverer than I) and I really scratching our heads sometimes. DD generally soldiered on and got pretty well every problem except a couple in the Algebra I class just taken.

    The full school day, regular B&M school homework (a lot), the book work and the problems were taking up too much of DDs time and this is why I decided to let DD take a lay off for a while. I had hoped to get DD to do the book work during school but the PARCC testing prep etc stopped this from being a realistic possibility.

    She is currently doing the Python beginner class and loving it - again I love the fact that they focus on solving the problem first and the language second. This is the correct way to do things in my opinion and I am really glad that DD is learning things this way around.

    Overall, AoPS has taught my DD pre-Algebra and their Alegebra I class in a rigorous manner and I cannot thank them enough for that. Further, it has improved her ability to focus and attack problems efficiently.

    She took the Explore test last year and frankly did not perform at her best. This year she took it and knocked every Maths ball right out of the park. AoPS taught her the right techniques and gave her the confidence to finish way before the bell.

    Many job interviews (a ways off yet as she is barely 10) these days focus on a candidate's problem solving skills and I am confident that what she has learned even this far will serve her well in that capacity later in life.


    Last edited by madeinuk; 03/24/15 05:50 PM.

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    Thank you all for the great feedback. Provides exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.

    A follow-up question. Have folks looked into the individually paced science courses on CTY or anything similar

    - Life Science Grades
    - Earth and Space Science Grades
    - Physical Science

    Any feedback on these?

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    Would also love to hear any experience specifically with CTY science courses; I haven't been able to find any previous threads. We're mostly interested in physics, and trying to figure out what level/ previous knowledge the courses are aimed at (the more interesting course has a required pre-req that looks a bit basic).


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