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Hello All,

I am new here and wanted to introduce myself. I have a daughter, 10, who is gifted and has ADHD. I also suspect dysgraphia as she has poor written expression in both language and math. She will resist writing at all, whether it is a quick short answer or doing multiple-step math calculations.

I started coming here because I am still struggling with school issues, including suggestions she has Asperger's. While we don't have any test results that indicate that she would qualify for DYS, I have found a lot to relate to about raising my daughter that I keep coming back.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to being here.

Hi! Welcome! This is a great support place.

Welcome Sky-ie!

ADHD is a deficit in making product, so I'm not suprised she is having trouble with writing. What kinds of school issues are you struggling with? Why would they think she might have AS? Do you have test results? Do you do 'learning fun' together afterschool? What books have you read and enjoyed about giftedness? about ADHD?

Welcome,
Grinity

Welcome!

Hello and welcome!

I am also new here. I have a DS (10) who has dysgraphia and dyslexia.

DS achieved some good handwriting success with Mrs. Heather of the Learn Write Centre http://www.learn-writecentre.co.uk/home.cfm but this is a UK based centre.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I am sorry I haven't responded earlier. We are in the beginnings of more therapy and evaluations for my daughter and emotionally I am just so exhausted. Instead of jumping right in with a full round of neuropsychological testing, dd is seeing a therapist to see if we can get a grasp on what is going on with her in an overall sense and if, indeed, the testing is needed.

Grinity, such good questions. She is defiant with her teacher and is so strong-willed about what she wants to do. She'll read all day in school rather than doing the school work. She does not work with her peers and frequently kicks or wants to fight/argue with them. She has two friends in her class of 32. She has inappropriate responses to things, what her therapist calls "maladaptive behaviors" including growling, yes, growling, when she doesn't like what someone is telling her to do. She identifies with animals far more than people and she does seem to lack empathy for people. She has been very self-centered (she is an only and is seriously overstaffed).

Her teacher also saw that she seemed to struggle with math because she couldn't explain how she got to her answer and she attributed that to not understanding the math concepts. It's the same thing I have heard about dd since she was 7. She resists learning math in the classroom and has even stated that she "can't" learn math in class. However, since I started her with an independent learning program for math she is doing very well and her teacher is now saying she is "advanced" in math.

On the other hand, she is developing more of a caring attitude and is being more and more considerate as she grows up. She has an amazing imagination. She plays cooperatively with other children in a small group or one-on-one. She is very expressive. All these things seem to contra-indicate AS.

Her teacher just wrote a note for me about her behaviors in school and in the note she ended with a statement about her being an independent learner and that she would thrive in another school environment. Now I just need to find that environment. Her teacher is genuinely concerned about her if she goes back to the school she is in. She is in the gifted class right now, but honestly, I have to say what they are doing is not what I would call gifted work. She is globally advanced in all academic areas, with math being her weakest subject (as I mentioned above). She is an independent learner. She teaches herself so much through various non-fiction science and history books as well as historical fiction. Her teacher has frequently commented on just how broad a knowledge base she has. She reads on a college level - comprehension, vocabulary, and speed (350+ WPM). When she does write, she writes very well with generally correct spelling and punctuation and with neat handwriting. She just doesn't like to do it, or has some other issue such as dysgraphia, but I am not really sure what dysgraphia is exactly. Her lack of writing could be related to her desire to perfect her ability in something before demonstrating it. She did that with reading. She went from not reading to reading at a 5th grade level (or higher) in first-second grade. Until I mentioned it to her teacher that she was reading certain books, her reading testing didn't recognize that she was the highest-level reader in the class. That's typical for her with teachers and classrooms - she does not demonstrate what she knows.

I have so many books - Taking Charge of ADHD, the Gift of ADHD, the Dual/Misdiagnosis of Gifted Children, Living with Intensity, Raising the Spirited Child, Dreamers Discoverers and Dynamos, and Taking Control to name some of them. Right now I'd say I really like Living with Intensity. I see dd in the pages. It's nice to have some sense of reassurance. However, without a professional saying "yes, this is what is going on," I haven't been able to diagnose my daughter myself (go figure). Sometimes I come to this forum hoping that by reading something I'll have that "AHA!" moment and realize exactly what is going on. Of course, I would prefer to discover that she is just way smarter than I realize and that all her quirks and behaviors at school are related to boredom and lack of true peers. I am, like most parents I expect, afraid of the answer I'll get from further testing. I already have grief related to her having been diagnosed with ADHD. Sigh.

I think we are going to end up having the full testing done - once we can afford it. I just need to have some concrete information for decisions. Testing so far has shown that she is gifted, with verbal being her strength. The difference between her verbal and her perceptual scores were another thing that seemed out of whack when she was originally tested at just-turned-six using the WISC-IV. However, those scores are suspect as she didn't complete some of the testing due to lack of sustained attention.

So, yes, this is a novel, which is one reason why I haven't written it yet. If you have read this, thank you. If you skimmed it, thank you for that too.

Oh, and yes, we do lots of enrichment at home - from shows to games to little mini-lessons and hands-on stuff on subjects she is interested. And lots and lots of trips to the library.

-- Sky.

I agree with the teacher that the current situation she is in is not healthy for your daughter. Perhaps a grade skip into a higher grade keeping the gifted class might make a lovely difference? As for the gifted work looking 'easy' to you, it's important to remember that there are 'levels of giftedness.' A class pitched to the top 3% may look as slow to you, and a class pitched to average would look to a kid who is just at the top 3%.

I would sign DD up for the SAT 1,(or ACT depending on where you live) right now. It's cheap compared to a full private evaluation, and might be your ticket into community college classes, which may be exactly the level she needs right now. Previously resistant school folks turn lovely shades of pale when you show them SAT scores the are in the same ballpark that the admins got as High School Juniors.

http://sat.collegeboard.com/register/sat-dates

You'll have to call and request a paper application, she is too young to register through the website.
It looks like October 9th is the next SAT, but maybe you could sign her up for a practice SAT that generates a grade this summer just to get it through everyone's head exactly where her readiness level is.

Is your daughter typing well yet? If not, I would hothouse the touch typing for all you've got. It makes a huge difference.

BTW - I have an 'ovestaffed only' too! LOL!

You do need some concrete numbers. I would suggest that since your daughter is making the regular gifted classroom stuff look 'easy' that you plan to travel to a tester who is very familiar with unusually gifted kids - I fear that a 'regualar gifted' tester would miss the signs of giftedness in your DD just like the classroom teachers - and then your concrete numbers melt like jello.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Hi, Sky--

The whole business of diagnosis is so much harder with girls than with boys-- there is less science on the girls, and because they don't act out as aggressively, they get less help.

I have a son and a niece with Asperger's. The growling is very familiar (it can be outgrown, don't worry!), as is a lot of what you describe.

To me, it seems like when you can manage it you should definitely seek further testing with an expert who is very experienced both with giftedness and with Asperger's and ADHD. You will want to know whether the self-centeredness is just personality or if it's neurological in origin, because that will probably affect how you choose to deal with it moving forward.

We found a developmental pediatrician who was capable of handling a child this complex in the autism program of a local children's hospital; there are some in individual private practice, too. Sometimes a dev. ped. is better covered by insurance than a neuropsych.

A diagnosis can be a gift-- as you've noticed, operating without one when one is genuinely needed is totally exhausting. The diagnosis can provide a road map and resources to help. For us, it put us on a good path.

HTH,
DeeDee

Thank you both for the input and support. We have decided to forgo testing for now. The psychologist and the psychiatrist have both commented that this seems more behavioral than biological. We are going to continue the therapy to address her ADHD, anxiety and/or ODD, because it all seems so commingled.

Talking to the teacher today she actually said that dd is probably having a harder time in school this year because her GATE class isn't "as GATE" as it has been in the past. Another interesting thing that her teacher had to say is that in her class of 32 she has two kids with AS, two with OCD, and two with Bi-Polar (obviously lots of gifted kids have other stuff too - I never would have known it). I am sure with all these personalities and differences and dd's issues..well, she has her hands full. Interestingly enough, her teacher said that she and her best friend both behave better when the other is gone. Sigh.

The teacher is happy we are choosing to home school through the virtual academy - they are good about advancing grade levels in work where necessary. [Edited to add: I don't think grade-skipping is the key for dd, that would just be the same learning environment, and that is what really needs to change].

We have a good therapist who is excellent with dd. She actually explained the basis for cognitive behavioral therapy to dd because she thought she would understand it and it would help her. She doesn't normally do that with kids. I am glad she is really seeing and *getting* my daughter and is willing to work with her without getting caught up in age-appropriate or age-expected.

I had thought about having her take the EXPLORE test, but hadn't considered the ACT/SAT. And community college classes? Wow - I really wouldn't have thought about that. I know her writing probably isn't up to that yet, but actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she could handle the content in some of the classes. She is such a sponge .

DeeDee, yes insurance is an issue, for sure. I'd go to a dev. ped., but I think she is so grey in her behaviors, that I think at best we are going to come out with a "possibility" rather than a spot-on, conclusive diagnosis. At least we have a good therapist (so far). Thanks for the assurance about the growling. She has really tapered off since pointing out to her how inappropriate it is - and being very clear/consistent about it. I really, really just want her to grow out of it. And soon.

-- Sky

Sky - 9 is quite young for ACT/SAT, but it's lovely to establish a paper trail so that you can catch her right when she is ready for CC classes. Have her take the EXPLORE too, just so that you have some documentation that will impress people as well. You can alway try auditing a lecture or two and see if she is ready. Many kids just aren't developed enough to sit well for a CC class, but there are kids who are taking University classes - for credit - and doing really well. I'm hoping you can get her placed roughly as far as what her learning needs really are. Comunity Colleges have many classes that are at a college level, but faster paced.

Enjoy!
Grinity