Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 167 guests, and 10 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    parentologyco, Smartlady60, petercgeelan, eterpstra, Valib90
    11,410 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    #147658 02/01/13 12:56 PM
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 756
    K
    KJP Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 756
    DS5 goes to a Montessori school. We suspect he is 2e and have an assessment with the Eides scheduled for the fall. The suspected issues could be any or several of the "dys-" variety or something else entirely.

    The Montessori school is great for the gifted side. It is the other side that is a problem.

    He has to do three assignments each work period. After that he has free time. If he can't finish in class, he can bring it home. So he has as much time as he needs to finish, that sounds good for a 2e kid right?

    The trouble is that he avoids his work and struggles to finish when he starts.

    Then he gets frustrated that everyone else is playing.

    I know there are issues getting in the way. At home he will ask what "6" is when doing homework like 6+1. This is followed by asking which way the "7" goes. He knows his letters and numbers but when he tries to use them in math or reading or writing they are reversed or inverted. (Does this seem like pretty severe dyslexia, plain dyslexia or something else? I know we will find out but I am just curious about parent opinions)

    Do you think he is being accommodated by getting plenty of time or punished because while his buddies are playing he is correcting all the g's he wrote backwards on his spelling test?

    At what point do you tell a kid they might have to work harder and longer for the same result as their friends?




    KJP #147661 02/01/13 01:21 PM
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 954
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 954
    At age 5 writing letters backwards is TOTALLY NORMAL. It's completely silly to force them to re-write things just because they did the letters backwards. You just keep having them practice each day. I would talk to the teachers about why they are so concerned about writing letters backwards at his age, given that it's developmentally appropriate.


    ~amy
    KJP #147664 02/01/13 01:32 PM
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    First thing, I think you might run into this same problem in a non-Montessori school - it was a problem for us and our dysgraphic ds in elementary school until we had a clear diagnosis and were able to advocate (strongly) that ds shouldn't be kept from recess/free time etc as a consequence of not being able to produce written work quickly (our ds' challenge).

    It's not a good situation - for a lot of reasons. First, it is in some ways punishment for having a challenge. Second, it doesn't help remediate the challenge if he's not receiving help for his challenge but just expected to be able to produce the same work in the same way at the same rate as every other student. Most importantly, you need to be sure it's not silently eating away at his self-esteem or feeding into anxiety - those impacts can go unnoticed until they build up to a larger-than-they-need-to-be level and going forward, those are the impacts kids remember and take to heart every bit as much as their actual struggles with LD etc.

    I also do not know much about dyslexia, but for a dysgraphic child (or at least for my dysgraphic child), having him correct his backwards gs over and over again wouldn't have taken away his dysgraphia, and wouldn't have prevented him from writing them in the wrong direction the next time he had a writing assignment - so what would have been frustrating on one level for a child who isn't dysgraphic (making the corrections, which DO happen for some kids still in kindergarten) - for a dysgraphic child it's going to be 10 times more frustrating because it's not going to make it necessarily easier to form the g tomorrow. I'm not saying that having a dysgraphic child practice handwriting isn't worth the time and effort, but I think it's really important to understand the challenge going into the work and to put together a reasonable plan for remediating rather than just going about it the way you would with a neurotypical student.

    I also don't know if this is true for your ds (or if he is even dysgraphic) but - for some dysgraphic kids (my ds is one of them) handwriting HURTS. Real, physical pain. And kids don't always tell you that - I had no idea until he was diagnosed and we knew to ask about it (when he was 8 years old) and we found out it had always hurt his hand to write. I also found out again, at 12, that handwriting was hurting again and had been for awhile, even though he very rarely uses handwriting anymore. He knew it hurt, but he didn't bother to tell anyone, he just went ahead and wrote by hand when his teachers told him to.

    I would love to have my ds see the Eides - I think their insight would be fascinating and invaluable. OTOH, we weren't able to see them - we live elsewhere, and when we've had a reach at the opportunity their appointment books have been full. In your situation, I'd so want to wait and see them - but otoh, if my ds was struggling in school now, from what you've written, I'd seriously rethink if perhaps it's not worth seeing someone else that you could get an appointment with sooner. We didn't have the Eides, and we didn't have the option of seeing a neuropsych who specialized in gifted or 2e kids... but we still were able to get so much info and help from our run-of-the-mill plain old doesn't specialize in anything other than kids neurospych. If there's one regret I have at all re my ds' early early years of school, it's that we didn't know for sure what was up sooner. I am not at all certain we wouldn't get exactly the same advice from the Eides we received from his neuropsych.

    Having a professional diagnosis and advice from *someone* might really help your ds now - and help you advocate for what he needs at school. Do you think there's any possibility you could go for an eval now and still see the Eides? I know that would be extra $ and a lot of it!

    Just thinkin' sorta out loud smile

    polarbear

    ps - re when to tell your child they might have to work harder and longer for the same result - your child probably already knows it. What's going to help is to have an official diagnosis, something you can tell your child for certain that you know, in order to explain it. Just telling your child that he's going to have to work longer and harder may sound (*TO HIM*) like it's his fault, or something's wrong with him, or he's not as "good" or whatever or "smart" as his classmates. But if you explain to him what dysgraphia or dyslexia is it's putting the "fault" elsewhere - it's letting him know it's not something inherently wrong or "bad" or whatever about him, and it's also a way to let him know there's a gameplan to remediate and accommodate and that you're going to be there working beside him to help get him where he needs to be. I don't think that's a good conversation to have until you know for certain what the challenge is - but that's jmo.

    Also, fwiw, one thing that helped my ds a ton was sharing examples of adult dyslexics and dysgraphics who had perservered and are successful. There was a common thread running through most of their stories - school was a struggle, especially in elementary. Many times teachers and other adults in their lives didn't understand or see their struggles. Many of them had a parent who made THE DIFFERENCE in their life by believing in them. And that's the thing that has also made those conversations easier for our ds (and for me) - you have to talk about how it will be tough and hard and take a lot of work, but you can reassure your ds you're in it with him for the long haul and most importantly, that YOU believe in him even if no one else sees the strengths yet. And that someday, those strengths are going to be what the world sees, far more than the challenges.

    KJP #147667 02/01/13 01:36 PM
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 3,363
    ps - just thought of something - even though you're in Montessori (which I'm guessing is private?) you can still request an evaluation by the public schools - and that would be one way to get at least some testing done now which might help you determine if there is dyslexia or dysgraphia.

    and another ps - I am not sure where to find it at the moment, but somewhere online a few years ago I found an article by Charles Schwab (who is dyslexic) where he talked specifically about his mother talking to him way back when in elementary school and explaining that it was going to take him a LOT of work and a lot of long hours that the other kids weren't going to have to put in to learn to read and write - but that it was important to not give up on it and that one day he would be thankful that he'd done that - and he was. That helped me stick with it during the times my ds gets discouraged, and was also really helpful for my ds to hear.

    KJP #147671 02/01/13 01:59 PM
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 647
    K
    Kai Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 647
    What I know is that Montessori was a disaster for our 2E son (2nd Es being dyslexia and ADHD), though I'm not sure whether a traditional classroom would have been any better.

    We ended up homeschooling.

    KJP #147673 02/01/13 02:25 PM
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 756
    K
    KJP Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 756
    Epoh, the teachers are not scolding him or anything over it. They see having him make the corrections as the daily practice you mentioned. There are other indicators including family history that are making the further assessment a good idea.

    Polarbear, he does complain about hand pain. His grip is so tight that his little fingers turn white from the pressure. Using colored pencils results in many breaks because of him pushing so hard. He has OT which covers doing HWT but it mainly covers sensory, balance and coordination issues. Like I said earlier a dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia and dyscalculia combo would not shock me at all.

    We have not talked to him about dyslexia or any other struggle because we wanted a diagnosis first. When and if he is diagnosed, we have successful 2e family members he can go to for support in addition to reading the stories you mentioned. I like those stories too.

    Kai, we are considering homeschooling. I have met several mothers of older 2e kids in my area and they all say they wish they had homeschooled the early years.


    KJP #147686 02/01/13 05:10 PM
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 756
    K
    KJP Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    K
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 756
    On getting an assessment ASAP, he isn't supposed to be in school yet (Sept. birthday) so I doubt he could get an evaluation with the local district but I could check. On going privately, we actually had his with the Eides set in May but moved it at their suggestion to after his birthday so he can take the WISC.


    KJP #147689 02/01/13 05:40 PM
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    KJP, districts have obligations to children starting with their 3rd birthday-- not too early at all. They actually are supposed to seek out children who may need services-- it's called the "child find" obligation.

    You've gotten awesome advice here. I too would seek out faster help. But then, I'm a leap-on-it kind of mom.

    DeeDee


    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    California Tries to Close the Gap in Math
    by thx1138 - 03/22/24 03:43 AM
    Gifted kids in Illinois. Recommendations?
    by indigo - 03/20/24 05:41 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5