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    #121080 01/26/12 06:19 PM
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    Mary8 Offline OP
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    I hope some of you maybe able to help me out. I have a son in second grade that has been nominated by his teacher for GT testing next month. Iam not sure to test him or not. In kindergarten he was given the NNAT and did not do very well on it at all ,in fact very poorly. I know if the school repeats this test he will not do well.He wants to be in the GT program though.Most of my sons friends are in GT classes and are 2 years older.He has always played with older kids

    Do I think my son is gifted yes, but I think he also has some definite weaknesses. My son was born at 30 weeks,and was a very low birthweight infant. He had extreme farsightedness issues his first 2 years .Despite being born almost 3 months early he walked at 10 months and has always had an extensive vocabulary and an insatiable curiosity.This is a kid who comes home from school and gets on the internet and does research on topics discussed on class because he wants more information.He compiles his research in binders. He takes pictures of animal tracks and tree fungus while walking in the woods so he can later get on the internet and identify them and study them. I was never in GT but I dont know many kids who do this.

    On the weakness side he has always had extreme issues with writing and with dimensional things.Out of curiosity I bought an NNAT sample type book and he was not able to do a lot of the questions. Where a piece of a patterned square was removed and he had several to choose from for an answer it was like he just couldnt see it. He excels in math beyond grade level except for items that require dimension.I dont know how else to explain it and I dont know what to do to help him.

    The NNAT is what they use as an entrance to the GT program. I hate for him not to get the additional challenges of GT because he thrives on challenge. I just know visual analogies seem to totally stump him.

    I know he has some kind of processing issue but dont know what. As a toddler he had extreme issues with clothes tags,sock seams, hats etc but has grown out of that.If anyone has had similar experiences and can give me any advice or direction I would appreciate it.

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    Have you discussed your concerns with school? It sounds like he needs a more complete evaluation that just a screening test.

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    My son's "IQ" according to his official score at age 8 had increased by 35 points since he was initially tested in first grade. It was due to overcoming some of the challenges he faces due to dysgraphia and dyslexia. If your son's IQ is not showing up on testing, I'd recommend looking into more thorough testing to identify what his challenges are. A good psych evaluation will take into consideration the entire picture rather than the small snapshot of an IQ screening test.

    Once you have a clearer picture of the entire scope of information, you'll be better able to not only decide if gifted placement will be beneficial to him but also better advocate with his teachers and school administration to help them understand his strengths and challenges as well.

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    Originally Posted by master of none
    If the actual gifted program is full of visual analysis, I might not push the issue, but that would be very unusual for a GT program.
    Good one MON!!!! Snort. I have this picture of kids playing where's Waldo variants. Then moving on to plant identification.

    The recomendation is for gifted programs to do screenings with instruments that are good for detecting the strengths that the program is trying to develop, but in real life, there is a tendency to use non-verbal tests in hopes of discovering children from language-poor environments or who are ESL.

    If only that worked.

    There is a myth that to be gifted in one area means that the child will be gifted in all areas. If this were true, then it wouldn't matter what kind of IQ test was delivered, because any test would discover all the children with special educational needs.

    Wouldn't it be great to be able to recognise, and then accomidate children with a variety of profiles? A child could get extra help in their weak areas and extra challenge in their strength areas.

    Smiles,
    Grinity


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    Mary8 Offline OP
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    Thank you everyone for your imput.I know his teacher thinks he is very bright and creative. She is the one who nominated him for GT.Last week the teacher asked the class to bring a collection of something to school.My son took a deer skeleton that he had dug up after finding a piece of bone at a local park.He talked to the class about the process of finding a piece of bone and how it lead him to surmise that the deer must have been struck by a nearby fallen tree during a storm.He explained how he dug it up and reassembled the bones.I have always thought he was pretty smart but I think all parents think that of their kids.I think because he does so very well in most of what he does it kind of masks the weaker points as far as classroom performance. The handwriting thing has always been an issue.We saw an OT for about 6 months befor insurance cut us off saying it was a chronic problem related to prematurity. I think its also connected somehow to his problem with dimensional objects.

    As far as our school goes,the only individuals they will test for learning issues are those that are failing a class. Which he is not.It is kind of frustrating.

    To be honest when he was born I just hoped that his intellect would be at least average.He was a 2 pound preemie and I was told there was a pretty good chance that he might require special classes and classroom support. The fact that he has excelled and goes beyond has amazed me.I only want to do what is best and advocate for him.

    I think I may need to just save up and have him tested privately.
    I see so much potential and I want to help him anyway I can. Its so hard to explain to the school that he may have a disability when his grades are good. I guess they have there hands full with those that arent passing.

    Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.


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    Originally Posted by Mary8
    I think because he does so very well in most of what he does it kind of masks the weaker points as far as classroom performance. The handwriting thing has always been an issue.We saw an OT for about 6 months before insurance cut us off saying it was a chronic problem related to prematurity...

    I think I may need to just save up and have him tested privately.

    I see so much potential and I want to help him anyway I can. Its so hard to explain to the school that he may have a disability when his grades are good. I guess they have there hands full with those that arent passing.

    Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.

    If you request an evaluation, in writing, to assess your child for a disability regarding handwriting, motor coordination, and visual processing, the school has to evaluate. Provide them with any records you have from the private OT that support the idea that he has problems in these areas. Preemies often have cerebellar issues that can affect both visual processing and motor planning and coordination, which will affect handwriting and also the ability to do well on visually-based reasoning assessments (and even worse on those that combine visual processing with motor output.) An IQ test is usually part of such an evaluation, and given that you are asking them to assess a possible visual processing deficit, they would have to use a test, or at least a section of a test, that did not rely on his visual system for that portion of the evaluation.

    If your child has challenges with handwriting that are due to his prematurity, you really may want to get an IEP or at least a 504 plan in place early, so that he can get support, accommodations, and perhaps services before the demands of the classroom increase to the point that he can't keep up and it starts to affect his self-esteem, and you want him to have access to the gifted program ASAP so he isn't under-challenged and bored while simultaneously being frustrated with his inability to write like his peers.

    BT,DT...

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    Ditto to everything aculady said... and fwiw, in our area, it was very very helpful to follow through with a private eval in addition to the school eval, as the school we were in at the time was operating from the point of view of proving services and accommodations were *not* needed. The private eval was much more thorough and gave us the opportunity to ask questions and really understand what was up with our ds.

    We were able to have our neuropsych eval paid for by our insurance - I know this doesn't always happen, but it's worth at least looking into. What we did was have our pediatrician make the referral, then the office administrator at our neuropsych's office helped us figure out how it should be coded for insurance purposes. It was billed under medical insurance, not mental health.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Ditto to everything aculady said... and fwiw, in our area, it was very very helpful to follow through with a private eval in addition to the school eval, as the school we were in at the time was operating from the point of view of proving services and accommodations were *not* needed. The private eval was much more thorough and gave us the opportunity to ask questions and really understand what was up with our ds.

    We were able to have our neuropsych eval paid for by our insurance - I know this doesn't always happen, but it's worth at least looking into. What we did was have our pediatrician make the referral, then the office administrator at our neuropsych's office helped us figure out how it should be coded for insurance purposes. It was billed under medical insurance, not mental health.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    We actually had the same experience with the school not wanting to acknowledge the disabilities or the need for services, and ended up getting a private evaluation by disagreeing with the results of the school's evaluation and requesting an Independent Educational Evaluation, which the school district had to pay for (and the district is legally required to take the IEE findings into consideration.) That evaluation and report were far more thorough (and accurate) than what the school did, and we got a ton of great information and helpful recommendations out of it.

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    Double ditto-ing acculady's advice. The school refused to test my son beyond an IQ test,and since our insurance at th time covered all of the testing with a $10 copay, we chose private. But thanks to what I've learned here on this forum, I've since been able to advocate for better services and additional testing despite the school's initial refusal.

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    aculady makes a good point about the IEE option - we could have done the same in our district. The catch-22 with going that route for us - if that had been the route we'd chosen is two-fold:

    1) without the info from the neuropsych eval I don't think we could have successfully advocated for an IEP eligibility process to begin with. Prior to the private testing we'd had team SIT meetings (teacher, school psych, parents meet together) and an extremely concerned teacher but we had a school psych, school sped rep, and school administration that pushed *hard* to prove the teacher's concerns were not worth worrying about and that our ds' was very "average" in the area the teacher was concerned with.

    2) Because the teacher hadn't had a kid with his specific set of challenges + IQ prior to teaching our ds, and because behaviors overlap often among challenges, and because she'd seen similar behaviors in other students... the teacher was very convinced our ds had inattentive type ADHD (which he does not have), but we could not convince the school of that without having ds evaluated, but the school was pushing to not evaluate. A big catch-22 circle with misinformation all around.

    3) We eventually did successfully advocate for a school eval (after we'd had the private eval and another year's worth of struggling at school)... and the process was very slow. The school district has 45 days (where we are) to act on a written request for an eval by a parent. Then at that point in time the team meets and determines if there is a need for the student to be tested for eligibility for IEP services. If the team decision is yes, then a 60-day time clock starts in which the testing must be completed. Our school psych managed to test prior to the 60 days expiring, but left his report writing to the last minute and then wasn't able to complete it on time and/or get to the meeting that was scheduled. We agreed to an extension, spring break happened in between, and ultimately this was our time line from teacher referral for IEP eligibility testing to the meeting where we wrote ds' IEP: teacher made the recommendation first day of 4th grade, the IEP eligibility meeting was held two days before school got out for the year with our ds heading into 5th grade. If we had been turned down for the IEP and requested an IEE, we would then have had to wait approximately 3-6 months to get in with an IEE evaluator due to the demand for services in our area. And then once that was completed, we'd have to schedule another danged meeting at school... just scheduling meetings where everyone could attend was a nightmare smile Sorry for the long rant lol! Just wanted to point out, the school process can be slow. And one year out of the life of an early elementary student who needs help is a big chunk of time. So that's where private testing helped us the most - while things were progressing at a snail's pace at school, we at least as parents had a good idea what we needed to do to help and advocate for our ds.

    polarbear


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