Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums THINKING BIG About Gifted Education Gifted Teen Following the Nose...

Hello hello,
I have always hated treating "intelligence", and its parent "greatness", as sensible, applicable, or relevant terms, but rather as a discrimination with little substance. Yet, here I am, basking in this supposedly senseless concept like a MENSA member, following my nose to find what I may.

My story...
I learned to read around the age 1 mark, how nobody knows... the leading theory is from subtitles. Obviously I could speak quite well before then.
I read every word I saw, and looked for more. Dictionaries and newspapers originally, eventually I was given books on general science and became obsessed with astronomy for many years.
By age 4 I had memorised the multiplication and division tables with an almost complete understanding of elementary arithmetic, loved science also, could write, and most oddly had memorised over 60 hours of movie dialogue. I can also spell every word I know, and always have been able to... there is an undeniable link between the word and the letters it is composed of, a natural conceptual link that memorisation techniques are designed to exploit.
I did not actively associate with anybody until high school. I remember very often wandering school grounds alone and lost in some abstract world (like a virtual world from a video game), during class time originally. To illustrate the intensity of this, even up to ages 10-12 I would circle poles in a certain manner, walk back and forth along seats, only step on certain parts of the ground if there was a pattern, balance on logs, climb trees, play games within the house involving not touching the ground etc... and when I attempt to write creatively it is nothing but a sea of adjectives; nothing physical within the story occurs unless I am writing for hours; purely descriptive.
On my preparatory examination I was tested as 6 years ahead of average in math, and 3 years ahead in english. I was not accelerated because my motor skills were relatively poor and because it is very difficult, I imagine, to make allowances for such cases. I was tested again 6 years later and found to be 5 years ahead of that average, in both math and english, though I had learned almost nothing new.
I have been to 11 schools in my life and home-schooled on three separate occasions. Most of the time this was because we moved house, while most of the remainder was due to some form of detachment on my part.
I was not exposed to the internet until I was 11, and I think that was a great disservice on my part.
I was accelerated from year 3 to year 8, but alas was moved.
When I reached about 12 and a half, my entire world-view changed entirely. Before then my record was almost perfect. Since then my record is probably below average. The more I came to understand about the world the less I could tolerate the institution. I was driven to medical depression multiple times over the subsequent years due to pure anger. I saw society for what it is, you could say.
I fought with my family to be taken out of school for many years. The home-school occasions were many more years behind me and I remembered them as akin to my first four years of life. I was denied on all fronts, because my social skills would be damaged, they said. The problems escalated. I taught myself to associate and then renounced all I had learned. At the worst, I could not sit through an assembly without a breakdown, ignored all of my lessons and worked independently from the syllabus, was angered to the point of trembling by a certain word or phrase used in a certain way well over a hundred times per day, and could not complete much of the coursework either for what it stood for or, more often, its philosophical questionability. My main defense mechanism was pretending that other minds did not exist (very possible by the way). While most would find that terrifying, in it I found salvation, to be the only person alive.
Finally I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and granted freedom with a medical exemption. (: The home-school system here is not self-paced, a heavy blow, but if I spend my time well it needn't matter so much.
I am Australian and 15.

What I would like...
I have been rather obsessed with philosophy for the last two years, spending hours per day on various forums. That is partly why I was driven here... people that do not refuse to believe I am 15 tell me I am wasting myself...
They tell me I need a direction, and of course I have always felt it. I think that anybody I know of who may direct me more effectively than I may myself is far too occupied. I still have the determination necessary to devote my 16 hours per day to some cause.
If you say "then choose a cause, something you are passionate about, simple", then I give you the answer "Enlightenment". And as the saying goes, you only know what you know. The best I can do is follow my nose, which is what I am doing, but certain situations will give me more than others. Certain people will give me far more than nothing.
I don't need information. The internet has all I could ever dream of. I need engagement. Constant discussion and mutual reasoning and conclusion, for virtually everything. That is my sole, half-formed motive.

A lot of that sounds familiar, even to the living in a video game, ignored the lessons, finished the schoolbooks quickly alone, moved to a new home a lot.  I vaguely remember questioning, "if I'm as smart as you think I am then why do you want to always tell me what to do?  Don't you think I have enough ideas of my own what I should do, if I'm as smart as you think I am? And if you want to tell me what I should do then why don't you try to think a little deeper and wider and come to me with a complete picture of what you want me to do, then actually let me do it.". But now that I have children I am so superficial.  I don't want to engage my kids at the depth of their being.  I want to teach them, conformity, believe it or not (I don't believe it).   When the first was born, gifted, I knew he was gifted, I wanted to ask, "should I expect the world to change for him or him to change for the world?". It was a legitimate question, as I'm sure you understand.    As in he would be raised likeable enough that the whole world would adore & accept his quirkiness or he should have been trained in conformity so that he would learn to love the world. Bizarre question, probably.  No one wanted to talk about it so it probably was just weird.

Also I noticed that I would have described parts of my story similar to the way you did when I was a teenager, I would describe the same story with a different motivation now, and there's been several versions of perception between the two.  (see Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration.  It's nice to know it's normal.). I found it bizarre to learn that some people think people can't change.  I would have never came up with a thought like that since I see obviously that I am always changing.  I resonated when i heard described a version of anatta "no soul" reincarnation.  When a river passes a rock and makes a little whirlpool then continues down the stream and swirled again past the next rock, is it the same whirlpool.  It doesn't matter to the rock, the water, or the river.  

I can tell you one thing that I think would have been exciting that I didn't do is I might have really liked to have been in the air force.   I don't know if they have an airforce in Australia or if that would be exciting to you.  

Also, I hope I have been engaging, at least I tried to be.  I did learn about this forum called The Gifted Haven created by and for gifted teens and college kids.  When looking for the link i did notice that there were posts made as recently as yesterday so it is an active forum.  As you have seen from your post here that you may post and have no one answer even on an active forum just keep watching and posting to get to know who "hangs out" there. http://www.giftedhaven.net/index.php?page=the_haven


Finally, you're 15.  Get the best education you can because if you can get a Ph D. your work and therefore large portions of your daily time will be much more interesting in your future.  Maybe in your past they didn't allow accommodations for your abilities but you are coming into an age where you can grab the reigns and you really need to start taking control of your own life and that means at this point to do what it takes to get a good long-term education and plan and work to get yourself one.  I have to ask myself, how would a mom answer this question.  Sweetie, a Ph D will be harder than the elementary math you taught yourself and you have been done a disservice by not being challenged so far (see Carol Dwecks entity theory of intelligence).  (also google "what a child doesn't learn").  Now is high school.  Now is your chance to shine academically and it will matter in your life.

[quote=La Texican]A lot of that sounds familiar, even to the living in a video game, ignored the lessons, finished the schoolbooks quickly alone, moved to a new home a lot. �I vaguely remember questioning, "if I'm as smart as you think I am then why do you want to always tell me what to do? �Don't you think I have enough ideas of my own what I should do, if I'm as smart as you think I am? And if you want to tell me what I should do then why don't you try to think a little deeper and wider and come to me with a complete picture of what you want me to do, then actually let me do it.".[/quote]
I find it very odd also that frequently I am told that I cannot be challenged in argument, but at the same time there are no inhibitions in challenging me without argument. xD Debate must become a social norm, it is remarkably productive... as compared to the desire to answer questions with shouts.

[quote=La Texican]But now that I have children I am so superficial. �I don't want to engage my kids at the depth of their being. �I want to teach them, conformity, believe it or not (I don't believe it). � When the first was born, gifted, I knew he was gifted, I wanted to ask, "should I expect the world to change for him or him to change for the world?". It was a legitimate question, as I'm sure you understand.[/quote]
I do not see conformity as a form of education... P: Later, when you said "trained to conform", I think is much more accurate. People rub off on each other. If one is educated sufficiently, the rest ought to fall into place. Why mold a certain way, to a standard, regardless of the person? And if you have a reason, can the person not have it and understand?

[quote=La Texican]As in he would be raised likeable enough that the whole world would adore & accept his quirkiness or [b]he should have been trained in conformity so that he would learn to love the world.[/b] Bizarre question, probably. �No one wanted to talk about it so it probably was just weird.[/quote]
I think it is a bizarre question only because of the suggested degree of being taught to feel, respond, BE, to such a degree. Two quotes come to my mind:
-The mind is a man's last sanctuary
-You cannot teach a man anything, only help him to find it within himself.
Again, I do not see training conformity in somebody as sensible or righteous.

[quote=La Texican]Also I noticed that I would have described parts of my story similar to the way you did when I was a teenager, I would describe the same story with a different motivation now, and there's been several versions of perception between the two. �(see Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration. �It's nice to know it's normal.).[/quote]
Yes this is nice. (:

[quote=La Texican]I found it bizarre to learn that some people think people can't change. �I would have never came up with a thought like that since I see obviously that I am always changing. �I resonated when i heard described a version of anatta "no soul" reincarnation. �When a river passes a rock and makes a little whirlpool then continues down the stream and swirled again past the next rock, is it the same whirlpool. �It doesn't matter to the rock, the water, or the river.[/quote]
I do not even understand what "People don't change" is supposed to mean. It hits me as nothing more than an utterly absurd statement.

[quote=La Texican]I can tell you one thing that I think would have been exciting that I didn't do is I might have really liked to have been in the air force. � I don't know if they have an airforce in Australia or if that would be exciting to you.[/quote]
This has been suggested, and mostly ignored. I am more for learning than doing. The ideal lifestyle for me is closer to that of Archimedes, Newton, Leibniz... stuck in a room, solving problems. x) Preferably also with a huge correspondence.

[quote=La Texican]Also, I hope I have been engaging, at least I tried to be.[/quote]
I am very grateful for your response, but as I say I have many hours in a day to fill with engagement, and it is generally a very lonely time... (:

[quote=La Texican]I did learn about this forum called The Gifted Haven created by and for gifted teens and college kids. �When looking for the link i did notice that there were posts made as recently as yesterday so it is an active forum. �As you have seen from your post here that you may post and have no one answer even on an active forum just keep watching and posting to get to know who "hangs out" there.�http://www.giftedhaven.net/index.php?page=the_haven[/quote]
Thank you. I have been to this forum and for weeks registering has incurred error. I suppose it is time to "contact the administrator".
Yes, the replies are few, but most strange is the reply:view ratio on this forum. It is by far the smallest I have seen.

[quote=La Texican]Finally, you're 15. �Get the best education you can because if you can get a Ph D. your work and therefore large portions of your daily time will be much more interesting in your future. �Maybe in your past they didn't allow accommodations for your abilities but you are coming into an age where you can grab the reigns and you really need to start taking control of your own life and that means at this point to do what it takes to get a good long-term education and plan and work to get yourself one. �I have to ask myself, how would a mom answer this question. �Sweetie, a Ph D will be harder than the elementary math you taught yourself and you have been done a disservice by not being challenged so far (see Carol Dwecks entity theory of intelligence). �(also google "what a child doesn't learn"). �Now is high school. �Now is your chance to shine academically and it will matter in your life. [/quote]
I read the article on "What a child doesn't learn". I am quite sure it does not care about the individual per se. It is for society. It preaches the values of society, just as the "education system" is designed to. Society is not my concern. I will learn as much as I can, and learning and getting a piece of paper are two wildly different things. I intend to have an enjoyable job, one that benefits me somewhat, but will only work in the first place because I must.

There are schools and businesses where the study of philosophy is not something to roll one's eyes at, here in the united states. I'd imagine the same to be true of australia or Japan/many asian countries. Having attended one such school here, though not for philosophy, I found a decent amount of students and professors willing to engage on all manner of subjects, and a core curriculum that required all students to take some philosophy, art and similar courses. Of course this is a bit unusual, a weird school, for sure.

My first 'real' boss when I went into programming was smart and funny; his first degree was in philosophy.
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Folks here have also suggested not one course of study for the profoundly gifted, but two or more courses of study being the best way to really challenge oneself. Best of luck to you!

I had a discussion with one of my friends when I was in school. I figured that I was in college for enlightenment. She figured that she was in school to make plenty of money as a chemical engineer. I should look her up to see whether she's still engineering away.

And the problem with the Internet is that there's plenty of useless information.

Also, some bad information.