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    Joined: Jan 2012
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    Hello. So I am overwhelmed with where to start with the whole school issue for my DS (5) late November birthday (20th) and who is reading etc at what I believe is 3rd grade plus level(chapter books) and has been reading since 2 1/2.... He's also way ahead with understanding concepts, and many other academic skills. He is eligible for 1st Grade this year, but I worry that he will be the youngest in class (and then conflicted because I know the gifted children like to be around older children and adult conversation for stimulation). It was my goal to put him in Kinder this Fall so that he would start First Grade in Fall 2013. School and friends say that it's best for a boy with a late birthday to wait a year and be the oldest child rather than the youngest. I'm not sure if that holds with the gifted children though? Our home school doesn't offer a Gifted program till 3rd grade. We had put him in the newly offered Transitional Kindergarten Program at our home school but he was so far advanced that we decided to keep him home after the Christmas holiday's. I'm considering signing up for the Young Scholars Program but am overwhelmed by the site too and don't understand if I just need 2 IQ tests to apply or if I need the other information requested (it doesn't seem relevant to the 5 year old not in school?). Does anyone have any advice for an active mum trying to make good choices on behalf of her child as he enters the education system..... Cheers!!

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    I'd tend to recommend early entry to K as a way of sneaking in a first skip, and here your friends are recommending red-shirting a giftie! Good heavens. smile Welcome.

    For DYS, you need two out of:

    * Acceptable scores on an accepted IQ test
    * Acceptable scores on an accepted achievement test
    * Collection of four or more acceptable portfolio items


    Striving to increase my rate of flow, and fight forum gloopiness. sick
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    Hi and Welcome!

    Just wanted to pipe in to say that the advice that you will hear from everyone around you may not apply to your child. You know this, and getting used to the idea is just one of the things you'll start to grow into.

    While the argument is often made that boys do better as the oldest rather than the youngest, this is not always true. Obviously, his academic abilities would place him with older academic peers. Honestly, people you know may not really be able to fathom just how far ahead your DS is in this regard. But, what a lot of people, including many educators, focus on is not academics (which you would think school would be primarily about) but more social things. So, consider: your child's physical stature compared to his age peers vs. academic peers, his social maturity, whether he has good enough and fast enough handwriting to keep up with assignments, who his playmates tend to be (older kids? kids his own age?), whether he will likely want to play sports (older is usually better for the serious athlete), whether he has older siblings, etc. IME, the best way for you to compare the different classrooms and peer groups into which you're considering placing your child is for you to go and observe some different classrooms while the kids are working and playing there.

    When you removed your DS from the trasitional K program, were the reasons academic or social or both? That might be a huge clue as to where he would belong. Sticking him in K next year would just place him back with the same kids. I can't imagine that would be appropriate.

    Do you have any IQ or achievement testing?

    BTW: My DS skipped K and is further accelerated in math and still people think we redshirted him!


    She thought she could, so she did.
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    Welcome HappyMrsCope! I second a lot of what mnmom23 said. I will add my 2 cents based on my experience, with the caveat that what worked for my Jan. bday kiddo may or may not work for any other kiddo.

    Whenever I hear "GT program doesn't start until 3rd grade" I have to comment. smile Our school district had the same policy when our DS started K, but we were able to get some acceleration, differentiation, and compacting for our son in kindergarten by working with the GT coordinator, the teacher, and the flexible principal. For us, we wanted our son to go to kindergarten with agemates because he refused to learn to write, even though academically he was years advanced. Because the school was willing to differentiate and work with our kiddo, kindergarten was OK. It was not without downsides, though, as they wanted to "get to know" our kiddo for themselves, which took a really long time, since DS is really quiet and not showy. Finally they saw how far advanced he was when they tested him on the MAP tests, which they normally gave starting in 2nd. Because 1st grade is a "learn-to-read and do very basic math" year in our district, we successfully argued for a grade-skip even though DS's writing skills were not all that great.

    As for being the youngest in the class, DS with his grade skip was the youngest in his class, sometimes even by 2 years because of the red shirted kids, and among the smallest, but he did not mind. I would agree that if sports are important in your family you may want to reconsider having your child be the youngest. That is not an issue with our kiddo, who is not athletic.

    Do you happen to have any GT schools in your area? I'm guessing based on your questions that you have at least one qualifying score for DYS, which makes regular school placement trickier. It can work, but you will likely spend a lot of time advocating, and you will likely have to look into grade and/or subject acceleration. We have found a good fit at a school for HG kids, an accelerated program. DS has a classroom full of intellectual peers, and while there is still a range of abilities in the classroom, it is a GT range, and it is nowhere near the giant range of abilities you would find in a regular classroom (which makes it much harder for the teacher to work much with the kids doing well).

    From your "cheers" and "mum" comments, just want to verify that you are in the US. Unfortunately, DYS is only a US organization at this point. But this board is always here, and hopefully we can provide some useful info. Please feel free to ask away!

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    Most schools assume boys are behind girls developmentally, and any boy with a late birthday will be even more so. That doesn't apply to gifted kids, as you noted. I think most gifted kids, even if they may seem to struggle socially at age 5 or younger, rise to the occasion and prefer older kids by around 1st grade on up, if not earlier.

    My DS7 (January bday, so no age cutoff issues) is one of the most mature kids in his 1st grade class and gets along best with the brightest kids in his 1st grade class and the 2nd graders he takes math with. He would easily fit in with the 2nd graders if we needed to go that route. Also, if athletics are a concern for you as some responders noted, some districts like ours run athletics through county-based leagues rather than through schools and perhaps you have those options too.

    My brother and SIL red-shirted my gifted nephew on the advice of his school. He's only 7 months younger than my DS (August bday). He's really having a hard time in Kindergarten this year, acting out, bad behavior, and he's bored. I should clarify that DS and nephew are in the MG range. They were not (and still are not) reading at a 3rd grade level at age 5, and we're still seeing the maturity and preference for older/brighter kids. That will be even greater with your kiddo who is more advanced.

    A bigger concern for me if we were considering grade skipping would be middle school years. Others on this site have talked about having a hold-over year around that age. Our district offers so many options for advanced kids from middle school on up, that it's possible to put a grade-skipped child into middle school where they're mixing with several different ages in advanced classes, and it becomes less of an issue. Overall consensus I've seen on this site about grade skip worries for later years is "do what works now and figure out the rest as you go."

    Welcome to the site, the parents here are a wealth of knowledge!

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    My ds8 is just about the youngest in his grade (he has a June birthday). He is also the only in child in his grade in the schools gifted program, and the only child who goes up a grade (to 4th) for math/reading. He is also very small for his age. He does play soccer - but his size so far has not been a problem - he's been "playing up" for a couple of years now, and is still one of the better players. Don't let anyone tell you that younger boys don't do well smile

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    IMHO, the generalization that gifted kids are more mature isn't any more useful than the generalization that boys are less mature. What matters is your kid's maturity level, not anyone else's.

    Last year, my DD was in class with a boy I'd assumed was gifted and very young for grade (he presented as extremely immature). It turned out that he was gifted and very old for grade, having been held back for maturity issues. Some kids are just really asynchronous.

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    Start....at the beginning. I remember very well that completely overwhelmed feeling.

    First you need to know where your son is academically. That means an IQ test and an achievement test. Some schools will willingly test a child before he enters the system, find out about yours. If not, you may have to pay for private testing.

    Make an appointment with the principal to discuss your son.
    "My son is scheduled to begin K in the fall and I believe that he is going to need some extra help" Principal's are generally very happy to discuss the needs of your apparently handicapped child. It sounds terrible, but that is the assumption.

    When you go for your meeting, don't take your son. Principal's get bombarded constantly by parents that think their child is the smartest one ever. You need to prove that you aren't one of "those parents." Take his work. Samples of what he's doing, a list of the last 3 books he's read along with lexile scores. Math worksheets, etc. If you go on-line you can look up the standards for Kindy in your state. Print it out then go through and highlight everything your son already knows. Present that as well. Talk about his thirst for learning and your fear that if he is forced to sit through K, he will become a behavior problem. Ask him/her if they would be willing to test him prior to the start of school.

    Presentation is EVERYTHING! You need to come across as a parent that is geniunely concerned not only for the well being of your child but the hell he is liable to inflict on the school if he's bored silly. Super important and something you will ALWAYS do going forward. When you leave the school, go straight home, reiterate the entire conversation on paper. Mail a copy of it to the principal along with a note thanking them for their time. You must always keep a written record! You might get everything worked out to perfection, then come August you walk in to find the school has a new principal and they know nothing.

    While you are doing all of that, you need to take the time to educate yourself about how your school district and your state board of education works. Start with the chain of command. If your principal doesn't respond, who do you call next? Find out and use it! Find out the district policy on grade skips, subject acceleration etc. In most cases it is left up to the individual principal. Make the principal aware that you know the rules. Testing is generally done at the discretion of the staff regardless of whether or not they don't have a "GT" program until third grade. Most principals don't spend a lot of time learning the specifics about GT kids when it comes to state/district policy. If they are put in a position were you know more than they do, they tend to be more cooperative.

    Last but not least, regardless of how you feel about making waves, you MUST be the squeaky wheel. It has been proven over and over by the parents on this forum that you don't get anywhere in the first meeting. They tend to hope that if they ignore you, you will go away. My rule is 7-10 days. If I don't get a response, I pay a visit. In person is much more effective than phone calls. A secretary can always screen calls, but she can't bar the door. Keep at it until you get some consideration. It might be baby steps at first but any movement on the part of the school is a step in the right direction.

    I live in a state that has no gifted mandates at all. Most of the schools have no gifted programs at all. My son, was refused early enrollment to K simply because they'd never done it before. Since my son started, they have changed the policy. When he was allowed to enter K, it was a nightmare. They ended up creating a day for him that looked like middle school. A different class at a different grade level for every subject. Halfway through the year, he'd given up K all together and been moved to the 4th grade. He did his math on-line everyday.

    It wasn't ideal but they tried, really tried to accomodate him. But it didn't happen until they realized that I wasn't going to go away. Now at 8, he goes to a prep style charter 6th-12th grade and he's thriving. Because our state has nothing for GT, acceleration is really our only option.

    Last but not least, be flexible! What works today may very well suck tomorrow. One year at a time, don't look too far ahead. You'll give yourself ulcers.

    There is a plethora of experience on this board, use it. Questions are not dumb, we all remember how it is so if you need anything else, just ask! Keep us posted......


    Shari
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    That was the longest post i've ever written! Didn't realize...


    Shari
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    Originally Posted by mnmom23
    When you removed your DS from the trasitional K program, were the reasons academic or social or both? That might be a huge clue as to where he would belong. Sticking him in K next year would just place him back with the same kids. I can't imagine that would be appropriate.

    It also matters if your local kindergarden is half day or whole day program.

    Lots of 'quite out there'ly gifted kids can do fine for a few hours a day in a half day program, even if the academic fit is poor. As NMMom points out, past performance is your best guide to his future needs - if he already was frustrated in a half day transitional program, and the kids would be the same, is one more year of maturity really going to allow him to do nonsensical tasks for hours day after day?

    Remember the book 'Outliers?' People have felt for a long time that holding boys back would be an advantage in sports and social development - although I heard something about a recent report that it's not actually helpful, and is sometimes harmful for normal kids. (Anyone have a link?)

    But the book 'Outliers' had a whole chapter about how older boys did better in learning to play ice hockey if they were from the 'older' months of the year. What most people missed was the idea that 'ice time' is very expensive and the limiting factor in developing good ice hockey skills. I agree that 'ice time' is key, but I question if red-shirting gifted kids is the way to get them the most possible academic 'ice time.' I rather think that subject accelerations and grade skips, when needed, are the best way to maximise the amount of time a child is exposed to the opportunity to learn. So many peole too the take home message of 'Outliers' to be: Holding the child back is best.

    I read it as: Analyse the situation. Figure out what setting will provide the most opportunity for a child to learn. Get your child there. I don't see how placing a child in an academic setting designed for children 2-4 years developmentally behind where they happen to be gives opportunity to engage with learning.

    My son, now 15, always by far the youngest boy in the classroom in elementary school due his summer birthday and the local practice of holding boys back, can tell you that it's no fun to wait and wait and wait with your hand raised for the teach to call you, and that even if it seems to others like you are 'always being called on' - to the child it seems like 'never.'

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
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