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    #107949 07/27/11 09:40 PM
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    bbq797 Offline OP
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    Yes. I mean literally karate chopping! Allow me to explain...

    My son is 5yrs old (starting kindergarten next year) and we've noticed the same pattern of behavior has been following him since preschool. He's always liked to play rough--nothing too crazy, just typical boy roughhousing, but never-the-less disruptive enough to be brought to our attention several times. We figured if he wanted to play rough, let him do it someplace where it is acceptable and positive--enter Jiu-Jitsu lessons. BUT, he does it outside of class (punching, kicking, etc) not in anyway that is malicious or mean, but more of a way that's playful or attention seeking
    .
    But it's also disruptive and potentially dangerous. He also likes to do his "crazy dance" which actually has caused a couple of injuries (accidentally clocked a girl in the face).

    It's not something that he does ALL the time, but enough to be disruptive. Even now, during summer camp his counselors say they try, but it's a bit of a problem (they try talking to him, warning him, time-outs etc)

    Okay, so here's my question:

    Is this just a typical 5 yr. old boy acting out thing, a personality thing or a characteristic of being gifted and by that I mean the following: Gavin is several yrs. ahead of his peers academically and likes to engage in discussion that is beyond what typical 5 yr. olds talk about. Given that, might this be his way of connecting to his peers, kind of like class clown syndrome; subconsciously saying to himself, "well, I can't discuss the Periodic Table or Algebra with them, but I can crazy dance and play Jiu-Jitsu". Or, might it be all that energy that he wants to direct into something academically challenging has to be channeled somewhere.


    We have discussed it with him, but all he can offer is that he's just practicing his Jiu-Jitsu (yes, we've also discussed appropriate time/place etc.)

    We're not sure what to make of it (or what to do about it) especially considering that next year he will be in kindergarten where this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

    Sorry this post is so long!! Thanks for reading--would love to get some feedback : )

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    At the tae kwon do dojo we attended with our son, there were very specific statements the masters would make the kids memorize about being honorable, never using their fighting skills to hurt or tease others, etc. If you are listening in on the classes, try to pick up on what statements are being made about when/where to use the martial arts skills being learned.
    If you don't notice an emphasis on this, you should ask the master what their policy is and how often they usually like to speak about this during lessons; our masters would bring this up nearly every single lesson. (presumably because it is so easy for a kid with just a bit of training to whack another kid in a martial artsy kind of way and the whole martial arts training thing gets blamed, when in fact it's just kids being kids...)

    We've found that bringing this up with our ds, using a lot of the same phrasing as in class, would help him realize more quickly when he was overstepping a line, same with the rules for scouts. The other day he was teasing his sister before a meeting and I just whispered something about scouts being kind, and he completely got in line, which was very good to see. (Granted he's 11 now).

    And I do think there is something to your idea about his using this new skill as a way to connect with other kids, in absence of any other common ground -- maybe there is a way he could still do that without engaging in battle? (give a short lesson to someone? not sure, just typing out loud). smile

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    bbq797 Offline OP
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    Thanks for the suggestion. That's the frustrating part--we've done all of that! I think we've done everything you're "supposed" to do. But the behavior still continues. So, we're getting a bit frustrated.

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    My DS has always been an idea guy and that helps him connect with kids. Ex. He made paper footballs and decorated them with markers. All the kids wanted one and he was happy to pass them out.

    Kids seem to go thru phases of trading/sharing fun little things like Silly band. My DS likes to make things and learn tricks which he shares with the others. Here's a few ideas- paper airplanes, yo yo, magic, create own trading cards, Kootie catchers, Flick trick bikes and skateboard, string games, miss mary mack hand clapping, friendship braclets, ect. Anything that fits in their picket is fun.

    Sport/School activites are a great way to connect too.


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    He's getting attention with it (he doesn't care if it is negative) so it is going to continue til he decides a more appropriate way to get attention is just as fun.

    Also, have you had him take martial arts classes like Chris said? Right away there, the kids learn they are not permitted to fool around with their karate chop moves!

    My son doesn't do karate chop moves, but he does flail around (being silly, playing) and has a limited concept of personal space. So he will step on kids or their lunchboxes, hit them in the face, or knock them over. He has gotten put in detention for these behaviors even though they were not at all malicious. The end result of his behavior was another child getting bonked, though, so he had to face the consequences.

    We have worked with an OT and with social skills groups to get him to improve his awareness of personal space for his own body as well as respect for other people's bodies. I'm not sure how much those have helped as much as him getting older. Probably a combination.

    Kate

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    bbq797 Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by onthegomom
    make things and learn tricks which he shares with the others. Here's a few ideas- paper airplanes, yo yo, magic, create own trading cards, Kootie catchers, Flick trick bikes and skateboard, string games, miss mary mack hand clapping, friendship braclets, ect. Anything that fits in their picket is fun.


    Thanks, great ideas! Some of them might be kind of tricky since needless to say, his fine motor skills are not his strong suit. BUT, the idea of finding appropriate alternatives for him to connect w/other kids is something to explore.

    Oh, at the risk of sounding so completely out of the loop, what are "Kootie Catchers" and the "Flick Trick"? lol


    @Kate: Thanks--that's part of the problem though, that he's been in a martial arts class for over a year. He's been spoken to by his Sensei and us, the whole nine yards; unfortunately, the behavior continues : (

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    Originally Posted by bbq797
    @Kate: Thanks--that's part of the problem though, that he's been in a martial arts class for over a year. He's been spoken to by his Sensei and us, the whole nine yards; unfortunately, the behavior continues : (
    I would talk to the Sensei and see if the Adults can work out some kind of plan where DS 'earns' his next week's lesson by 'playing spy' and hiding his Nija Powers succesfull for the preceding week.

    I would also consider changing martial arts schools.

    As for the giftedness angle - yes, gifted kids:
    1) deserve to be in classrooms where there is material to learn, with peers who are ready to learn the same thing and teachers who expect to teach at that level. By doing this you raise the reinforcement value of achievement at school and your little wiggle worm will be more motivated to behave himself. Get him tested and get the tester to go to bat for you with the school to get this child's academic needs met! It's a long process so get started. Look for a local tester who can give the SB-V or Differential Abilities Scale-II (DAS-II) since you are in the WISC 'hole' until your son turns age 6.

    2) often- do everything they do with g-u-s-t-o. A great parenting book for parenting Intense kids is Lisa Bravo's 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook.' If you have any questions I'll try and answer them so you can ramp up ASAP. For now, try noticing everytime your child is 'holding his power' by sitting quietly, and making an appreciative comment about it. Prove it to him that he CAN sit 'strongly.'

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


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    Originally Posted by bbq797
    Oh, at the risk of sounding so completely out of the loop, what are "Kootie Catchers" and the "Flick Trick"? lol
    Paper fortune teller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_fortune_teller

    and

    FlickTrix
    flicktrix.com/

    All hail Google the Omniscient - long may she rule! ((Joking))
    Grinity


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    bbq, Dang! I thought that might have been what you meant when you said you tried everything frown

    Sorry

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    http://www.klutz.com/

    This is a great source for working on some fine motors skills and learning lots of tricks. You can also look at this site for ideas and then search the library for similar books.

    When my DS was in K he brought in little caterpillars for kids as a sign of freindship. Use a strip of colored paper, fold accordian style, then add eyes and a smile. The caterpillars could even meet together and play.

    (Thanks for bringing back a cute memory)


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