Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School how hard would you try to avoid Everyday Math?

Would you choose not to send your child to a private school solely because they use EM?

There's a private school that I love in every respect except that it uses EM for K-5. It switches over to a more traditional math curriculum starting in 6th grade. This school is well-respected academically, and they say they are pretty flexible with where a student is in math. There are a couple of multi-age classrooms, and they tell the story of a middle school student currently learning trig from the high school math teacher, etc.

We're tentatively planning on switching from our current montessori charter school to this other school for middle school, when dd enters 6th grade, but we have younger kids who we are considering also switching to the elementary school. If one ds stays two years ahead of grade level as he is now, he should be ready for 6th grade math in 4th grade, just when we'd be switching to the new school, but we also have some younger kids, who would be starting from the beginning with EM, if we were to switch them as well. It's hard for me to fathom because we're a much more mathy family than language-y. My current preschooler is potentially just as talented at math as his older brother, and I'm wondering whether his math education would suffer significantly in comparison with the math his brother has been able to do in the montessori school. At the same time, I'm guessing there are a number of other subjects, particularly those in the realm of language arts, that may be taught "better" at this private school.

I said I'd never do it, switch to a school with EM. Would it be a dumb decision? Should I try to keep the younger ones in the montessori school until they are ready for math beyond whatever 5th grade EM is?

Is it possible to accelerate through EM without afterschooling math? (I'm not opposed to afterschooling the math, but it would still be a chore. I'd have to approach it in a much more organized fashion than what we do around here now.)

Thanks for any thoughts

I have no direct experience of EM but I've taken a bit of an interest in discussions of it in various places... It sounds to me as though the problems with EM are mostly with it being used by teachers who don't really understand enough maths or enough maths pedagogy themselves to be able to make it do what it's trying to do in the way of encouraging mathematical understanding in the children, or to feel confident adapting it to the needs of individual children. If this school has good teachers using EM in a flexible way, I think it might be fine, maybe even more than fine. But I'm sure this will be a controversial question!

i personally would avoid it. my son is in a school that recently switched to EM and i was so disappointed. he has APD and with the bits and pieces that EM works off of, he really struggles. he can do algebraic equations and does well in standardized tests, but fails EM. i have heard from teachers that their kids had a hard time transitioning from EM to highschool math because mastery is not a priority in EM, nor does it really focus on fundamentals like the other math programs do. i mentioned to DS teacher that he can do algebra (and fast) and she blew me off as if it was nothing.

It seems too early to tell about switching the younger ones. Some private schools are terrific for middle school and 'same old same old' for elementary school, so I'd watch out for that.

I don't know much about EM itself, but if placement by exam was allowed, would your younger DCs be able to be subject accelerated through much of EM? If this is the case, I would perhaps hothouse enough so that they would really be at a good level.

But seriously, give dd6th grade at least a semester at the new school before you decide that the current elementary school is worse, unless one of your DC are suffering. KWIM?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

As I've said elsewhere I am a fan of EM.
IMO FWIW
Its two weaknesses are for kids who don't get things quickly -- which is obviously not an issue for your DCs. The constant movement of the curriculum is really hard for those kids. The second is that it doesn't have a lot of rote drills so some kids need reinforcement for those skills -- again it doesn't seem to be relevant for your dcs.

I like it because it is much more conceptual than most elementary school math curricula --- it encourages actual mathematical thinking rather than just learning arithmetic.

You have one big thing that can help you, which is that if you haven't decided, you haven't given them a check yet. So they still have to sell their program to you.

Have you considered having a frank discussion with them about EM? Just be honest: "I'm struggling a bit with this decision, because although I like many things about your program here, my reservations about EM are significant enough that I'm very hesitant. What can you do?"

Give them specific examples of what concerns you about EM. This will help avoid responses like "Oh, but we do such a great job teaching math; our test scores are super high."

YMMV, of course, but here are some of the things that really bothered me about it when my DS was in a school that used it:

* Too much stuff that isn't mathematics (eg, write a story [the example I'm thinking of didn't involve writing an equation; it really was just a story], cut out pictures of shapes in mid-2nd grade, name presidents on coins.

* Too many questions without a right answer (eg, cut out a paper ruler and measure some stuff of your choosing at home. How does the teacher know that the measurement was correct?)

* Lack of focus (a characteristic of all spiral curricula)

* Maddeningly slow for a child who already gets it. EM uses multiple ways of showing the same thing. If the child gets the concept already, he can get frustrated going through all the different methods. I know my son did. He used to almost shout, "I hate this! Why can't we just ADD???"

Lastly, and this is a biggie, if the school agrees to something, get it writing, even if it's just an e-mail. I can't emphasize the importance of this enough. Getting things in writing avoids problems of memory later.

HTH,

Val

This is a tough one and I think it will depend on a number of different factors including each individual child and each teacher. I would initially suggest speaking with staff at the school and seeing how they directly handle advanced students as well as trying to find a few parents with first hand experience.

FWIW we are leaving a private school and switching to an e-school next year for DD9 who will be in 4th. EM has been a huge issue for DD since K. Each year was a bit different as it would depend on the teacher quite a bit. Some would supplement, some wouldn't. Even though they also have a math pullout program 2-3x/week using Singapore it still wasn't enough for DD. Math is her passion though, and she desires to switch because of it.

In theory I like EM, but it is a very poor curriculum match for both our kids. It is incredibly repetitious and works off an assumption that mastery will take a very long time. Our kids don't need the built in review which comes with each unit. DD has huge issues with this as well as how slow it moves even when introducing new concepts. I've pulled up links and EM curriculum quotes before if you'd like to see them I could track them down again.

I'm trying to be diplomatic here because our situation revolves around EM and we're leaving what should be a great private school in large part because of it. That said it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that an advanced child appropriately placed in EM wouldn't still be bored to tears with it based solely on the pace. Someone prove me wrong, please!

This is an interesting question. I am placing my dd5 in a Kindergarten program that uses EM through grade 6. My sole hesitation is due to all the negative I've seen on EM.
It is a GT program and they do pretest before EVERY unit. So I guess I am hoping that the costant regrouping of kids based on their pretest results will be ok.......I hope....

i would avoid math everyday if i could

(just kidding around, couldn't help myself)

My dd found it easy to grade skip within EM program because of the spiraling. I would recommend getting as much testing in writing from the Montessori school as possible ahead of time.