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    Joined: Feb 2012
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    I have a 3rd grader whose IQ is 135. I find her younger sister to be similar in almost all aspects. However, the younger kiddo has lower math skills at this age. Both were early readers, etc.
    DD2 just took KBIT at age 5y2m. She scored 119 verbal, but only 97 nonverbal. My first thought was that it's just flat wrong. I'm a teacher with a master's degree in early childhood ed.I just don't see that much of a gap between the 2 kids. I thought she's score a 120 or more on both parts. So how can I find out for myself what the situation is without paying for outside testing? Her teacher referred her for the screening. I can rescreen in a year. Is there anything I can do to help her in the meantime? Testing specific activities? Our gifted teacher is amazing or I wouldn't bother.
    Thanks for any advise!

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    Keep in mind that, of course, all testing of little ones this age is somewhat unstable. And the KBIT2 should be considered a screening instrument, not a comprehensive measure of cognition.

    Reading your post, I gather that you are not all that shocked by the verbal score (which, after all, is only one point off of your expectations, well within the standard error of measurement), but quite surprised by the nonverbal score. To answer your straightforward question, you really can't obtain additional normative data without additional testing. In order to obtain this at school district expense, you would have to present evidence of a learning challenge, and request it as an initial evaluation for special education eligibility. If you do not have IRL concerns with her development, then that would not be a realistic avenue, and you would likely have to pay out of pocket for a private evaluator.

    To the larger question of whether these results accurately represent her ability, I would point you back to your own comment that she has lower math skills than her older sibling did at this age, but similar verbal skills. That is entirely consistent with having similar verbal cognition, but lower nonverbal cognition, which suggests that the test findings are generally accurate. You might not see the differences between the two children at this point, because the younger one has had limited formal schooling. If most of her academic behavior is in self-selected areas, and her day-to-day presentation (like many small children) is primarily reflective of her verbal communication and social skills, then there is no particular reason you would have had opportunity to see her areas of less strength on display, other than in the form of early math skills, which is the exact area you have named as comparatively delayed.


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    My DS took the KBIT 2 at pretty much the same age. He scored 126 verbal, 110 non-verbal, and 121 composite. I requested further testing because it did not seem accurate (especially the non-verbal because DS a visual spatial mathy type...) and DS was given the WPPSI IV and scored in the gifted range. A year later we did the SBV for gifted school admission and DS scored a 19 on non-verbal fluid reasoning (which I think is pretty much the same thing the Non-Verbal IQ score is based on with the KBIT 2).

    Obviously this does not mean anything about your child or her scores, but just an example of a child for whom the KBIT definitely was an underestimate. I would say that if you feel strongly that the score isn't accurate and you really think your DD would benefit from that gifted program that you should request an actual IQ test. It sounds like you have the teacher to back you up and with a screener it is always possible that the subtests just didn't capture your Daughter's skills.

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    I notice you posted about a year ago about having this child tested with the WPPSI/WJ for admission to a GT school in preK. If you ultimately did complete that assessment, those results would likely give you a better idea of how accurate your recent results are, as the WPPSI is a much more comprehensive instrument than the KBIT (all caveats about testing young children remain, of course). If she was tested last year, you also would have to wait until she turns 6 to re-test, this time with the WISC-V, as it has been well under 24 months since the WPPSI would have been administered.


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    No. We did not go forward with that testing because she got in to the school we wanted her to. I also wonder how much of this testing score is influenced by the fact that they pulled her off the playground at recess to do it and that it was the day of a major event here...Mardi Gras! I'm annoyed by it, but not making excuses. The teacher thinks she likely just didn't understand the matrices directions. She's never seen anything like it. I did not coach her in any way whatsoever.

    As for the other commenter that mentioned I said she has lower skills, I meant relative to her sister, not the general public. She's in prek 4 and is adding and subtracting in her head with numbers to 20, doing 100 piece puzzles, etc. Her sister could do 200 or 300 pieces at this age, but your typical prek kiddo does 6 and maybe 8 piece tray puzzles. My point being that she is clearly above average. Her music teacher has 800 students and says she is the highest student he has ever taught. Ever.

    Lastly, she is in French immersion school and is already almost fluent after only a semester. The tests are obviously all in English, so I wonder how that influences the scores as well.

    Thanks to everyone for your input!!

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    That does clarify your meaning a bit, but what I actually meant was that she might not be equally strong in nonverbal as she is in verbal, given that your observations of her math- and spatial-related skills are not as high as your observations of her verbal- and reading-related skills. The obtained nonverbal score is certainly not below average. It also doesn't have as much to do with puzzle skills as one might imagine (it's not predominantly a spatial task, but an abstract reasoning task). Also, one of the ideas behind the task is that students don't have prior exposure to it, so never having seen something like it before is not a priori a reason for doubting the validity of the score.

    That being said, being pulled out of recess on Mardi Gras for testing is unlikely to contribute to optimal performance. This just sends us back to the original caveat about scores, which is simply that she is very young, and many factors besides actual cognitive ability have a strong impact on test performance in very young children.

    FWIW, I doubt the French immersion school is a significant factor in testing, where she is a fluent native speaker of English, with (I am assuming) fluent native speakers of English in her home environment, and has only had one semester of exposure to French. I would expect more language learning effects from testing her in French.

    I hope the next testing experience she has is under better conditions, so you can have a slightly higher degree of confidence in the results.


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    This is just anecdotal data and not some sort of official information.

    I referred my son in K for gifted testing. Here they screen with KBIT with a specific cut off for further testing. He misses cut off by one point. Guidance counselor tells me that tons of kids she screens in K miss it by one and are rescreened either the next year or in a few years and the same kids pass the screen and with further testing, test gifted. Other kids are initially referred in first and pass the screening no problem. Her opinion was that the cut off score for K wasn't valid. My son was eventually tested in first grade on two different instruments and tested profoundly gifted on one and highly gifted on the other. You can't tell me that he just suddenly became gifted in first grade. So I have never been a fan of the KBIT's usage as a screener in our county....if the guidance counselor saw the problem with the cut off year after year and saw those same kids qualify later on, something needed to be done.

    Last edited by Cookie; 02/24/17 08:37 PM.

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