Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment High WISC-IV but low CogAT?

Hi all,

I'm new here and completely perplexed. I'm hoping you can help shed some light or give me ideas! Last year, my daughter was tested in 2nd grade. She was experiencing anxiety in math, but we thought she was capable so we decided to have her evaluated. She scored well (I think) on her WISC-IV. Also worth noting is that the psychologist reported that she might have sensitivities to sound, texture and visual cues.

VCI 136 (99th percentile)
PRI 135 (99th)
WMI 144 (99.8th)
PSI 121 (98th)
Full Scale 143 (99.8th)

She recently had a CogAT test, given at the end of 3rd grade for "Highly Capable" programming that begins in 4th grade. She did not perform as well, and received the following score: (This is all that was given to me.)

quantitative: 97% percentile
verbal (reading): 67% percentile

The cut off for HC (our G&T) is 98%. They looked at her MAPS scores as backup, which were:

Math 214 (96th percentile, Fall 2012)
Reading 219 (97th percentile, Fall 2012)
(Interesting to note that her Winter 2012 Reading score was lower at 218, yet higher percentile - 99th.)

So they decided to deny entrance to the HC program. I contacted the director of the services to ask what happened and to tell him about her WISC-IV scores. He stated the following "I am familiar with the WISC-IV as it is widely used in school districts for assessing students with disabilities. The WISC is a good assessment tool and your daughter's scores reflect that she is an exceptional child. Results will vary from one test instrument to another so having the WISC and Cogat scores show different results should be expected. The district multidisciplinary team is obligate to follow the board procedures. Those procedures do not include the consideration of testing not done by the district or using measurements or data sources not stated in that procedure. "

Sounds like they are not willing to consider her WISC-IV results. I don't know what to do next! Should I ask to have her retested? What if she again tests low? Should I ask for a different testing environment due to her history of anxiety and possible sensory sensitivities? I'm having trouble just accepting their decision. I know she needs to be challenged more than what she currently gets in the classroom. We already supplement with EPGY and CTY... this is all enough to make me want to home school!!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and tips you may have.

I think it's pretty clear that your daughter is gifted, and frankly, all three measures show evidence of that. You must be feeling very frustrated!
I think your best option might be to pursue the 2E diagnosis if you feel like your daughter's scores were affected by the group nature of the testing with CogAT (although I'm honestly baffled by his comment that the WISC is used to assess students with disabilities. Is there someone over his head who might understand the WISC better, because it seems like he doesn't even understand the test). I definitely understand your unwillingness to accept his verdict, because it just doesn't match up with what you know to be true. I wish I had better advice. Good luck!

What State are you in? I have fought this battle too. You need to find the district and (if any) the state's rules on GT Identification. Here in Texas we have entirely unenforceable suggestions on acceptable, recognized, and exemplary standards for Identification, Services, and self-assessment. And, the district defines these also in the district's "board policies" manual which is usually online.

The director of services sounds like an idiot! Sorry! I am trying to find a link to research on individually administered vs group administered abilities/IQ tests, but the validity goes way up on individually administered tests. CogAT is an "abilities" test, and any school teacher can administer it! The WISC-IV is a more complex Intelligence test, with much higher levels of education and training required. It is a better instrument! You can score falsely high on a WISC-IV, but you can score falsely low on the CogAT!!! Keep pressing on. Read the board policy yourself. It is ridiculous that because you have the ability to get better testing done by a better trained professional that they can exclude this! Good Luck!

That should read:

"you CAN'T score falsely high on the WISC-IV but you can score falsely low on the CogAT"

sorry about that

Ick. Um, yes, the WISC can be used to assess students with disabilities. And also gifted students. That is just a dumb statement that he made. I will say that my own dd12 had a significant difference b/t WISC and CogAt. According to her achievement the WISC is the accurate one, and I have seen anecotes of this over and over. Thankfully my school district does accept outside testing. I would get the book From Emotions to Advocacy and start politely putting further requests in writing. There must be a process to appeal.

Yes. Yes.

My ds's CoGat was 97% in reading however his VCI was 152 and his above-level testing score in reading was DYS level.
From all I've read lately, group testing such as the CoGat is inaccurate.

I would ask if there is any other follow-up testing or other process you can follow to have to tested again by the school. The CogAT is not MEANT to be used as an end-all/be-all test. It's a group SCREENER. Surely they have some sort of process in place other than just the CogAT?

Ugh.
And this suspicion is what we parents are up against

http://suite101.com/article/gifted-teachers-can-learn-from-justin-chapman-a114448

Oh boy. I would like to think teachers understand how exceptional that case was.

We are in Washington state. Formerly there has been NO appeals process! But the WAC law just changed and went into effect 4/12/13, so I'm hoping to find some help there. According to the new law there must be an appeals process. I have heard that there are studies out there that show the CogAT to be an inferior test, especially when identifying gifted, but I have not been able to dig any up. I want to be able to present them with hard evidence as to why they should change their procedures! It is a time of change anyway for the district due to implementing the new laws.

Here is what the director sent me regarding the school district's policies:

Assessment: In order to be considered for final selection as among the �most highly capable� there shall exist evidence of one or more of the following characteristics:
(a) Evidence that the student scores in the 99th percentile in cognitive ability (verbal or quantitative);
(b) Evidence that the student scores in the top 99th percentile in one or more specific academic achievement area; or
(c) Evidence that the student demonstrates behavioral characteristics for �exceptional creativity� (defined in the WAC as the demonstration of unique or outstanding creative products and/or the demonstration of unusual problem solving ability and the intellectual potential to perform academically at a level significantly higher than the norm for the chronological grade level).
(See WAC 392-170-040 and 055.)
Selection: Final selection of the most highly capable students eligible for HiCap services in grades 4-8 will be determined by a District multidisciplinary selection committee (�MSC�) based on the District�s policies and procedures and the professional judgment of the MSC. (WAC 392-170-075). The MSC will consist of the following personnel:
(a) Classroom teachers with training and experience in teaching highly capable students.
(b) A psychologist or other qualified practitioner with the training to interpret cognitive and achievement test results.
(c) A district administrator with responsibility for the supervision of the district�s highly capable students.

Here is the amended law regarding selection of HC. There are no rules regarding specific tests - that is up to the individual school districts. I don't know that there is anything below that can help me.

WAC392-170-055 Assessment process for selection as highly capable student.
*Amended
(1) Students nominated for selection as a highly capable student, unless eliminated through screening as provided in WAC 392-170-045, shall be assessed by qualified district personnel;
(2) Districts shall use multiple objective criteria for identification of students who are among the most highly capable. There is no single prescribed method for identification of students among the most highly capable; and
(3)Districts shall have a clearly defined and written assessment process.

WAC392-170-60 Nondiscriminationin the use of tests.
*Amended
All tests and other evaluation materials used in the assessment shall have been validated for the specific purpose for which they are used and shall accurately reflect whatever factors the tests purport to measure.
If properly validated tests are not available, the professional judgment of the qualified district personnel shall determine eligibility of the student based upon evidence of cognitive ability and/or academic achievement. This professional judgment shall be documented in writing.

WAC392-170-075 Selection of most highly capable.
*Amended
Each school district's board of directors shall adopt policies and procedures for the selection of the most highly capable students by the multidisciplinary selection committee. Such policies and selection procedures:
(1) Shall not violate federal and state civil rights laws, including, without limitation, chapters 28A.640 and 28A.642 RCW;
(2) Shall be based on professional judgment as to which students will benefit the most from inclusion in the district's program; and
(3) Shall be based on a selection system that determines which students are the most highly capable as defined under WAC 392- 170-055, and other data collected in the assessment process.

I really appreciate you all having a look at this. I am feeling really overwhelmed! I contacted the psychologist who administered the WISC-IV, is renowned for his expertise in gifted, and is also a certified school psychologist. He said he is frustrated by our district's process. He mentioned that Seattle SD has approved outside evaluators, of which he is one, but there is no such process for our district. He has offered to retest (bless him), but I don't know what good that would do. What if she scored exactly the same on both tests?

-Tricia