Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Can CogAt indicate learning disability?

(Posted in twice exceptional as well)

My DD was tested using ITBS and CogAT.

ITBS scores were (these are National Percentile Rank)
Reading 99%
Vocabulary 83%
Mathematics 68%

CogAT scores were (age percentile ranking)

Verbal 38%
Quantitative 45%
Nonverbal 86%


Should I be concerned about the discrepancy between her Reading and Vocab scores on the ITBS compared to the CogAT? Shouldn't they at least be "around" the same?

DD did have strabismus surgery about two weeks before testing, but obviously she was able to do okay on the ITBS?
Thoughts? Suggestions?

I believe CogAT verbal section is analogies, claassifications, and sentence completion. A very different test from the IBST reading test. It's been a few years since one of mine took it but that was my recollection.

It could be an area of weakness or a bad day. Do you see other signs of LD?

How old is your dd? Just curious - that might make a difference in how I'd view the reading score on the ITBS. The ITBS is an achievement test, and if your dd is very young her scores might be mixed in with kids who haven't really been exposed to reading instruction yet, therefore they might be higher (percentage wise compared to grade peers) than they will be later on in school.

I'm wondering why you asked right away about if it might indicate an LD? Have you seen other signs that have made you wonder? I think most parents would see the scatter in scores and first think... hmm... why did this one test come out so different... and not necessarily leap to a question about LDs... if they didn't have something else already that they were questioning.

Lastly, her vision could most definitely have been an issue! And I would question and want to know more details about the tests and testing scenarios so I could try to understand the scatter in her scores. The first thing I'd do would be to look up descriptions of each tests' subtests - what type of questions are asked, is the question read to the student or does the student have to read the question, is the answer multiple choice, does the student answer orally or with handwriting etc... those types of questions. Look for any patterns, and in your dd's case, spefically look for things that are tied to vision.

I will also add - I'm not a huge fan of the CogAT. There are a number of us here who've had HG/EG/PG kiddos test not so "gifted" on the CogAT. The CogAT is a "learned ability" test - unlike an IQ test (WISC etc) it is not measuring innate ability, but rather ability based on past learning/exposure. The expected "correct" answers leave no room for creative outside-the-box thinking kids. BUT - my experience is only with the verbal portion; my kids haven't taken the non-verbal.

Best wishes,

polarbear

The CogAT is a VERY VERY short test. Your child could have been looking out a window, or tying their shoes and missed 2 questions - boom! They are in the 80's on that section. I wouldn't personally assign much of any significance to that particular test.

DD is 6, so yeah, I can see her being able to read making her score much higher than kids who cannot. I questions particularly the verbal score because of the discrepancy in the scores. I know they are two different types of tests, but wouldn't a child with below average verbal reasoning ability struggle to learn to read in the first place?

Oh, and about whether or not we've seen any signs of an LD...not with learning specifically. She catches on to things very quickly.

The kind of things we have seen from her are some sensory stuff. She refused to wear socks for awhile. We finally found one specific brand she will wear but it takes forever to put them on. She will not wear jeans. I asked the pedi about the socks thing. Pedi said to just tell her she must wear socks.

She also has problems with perfectionism. She used to get upset with her work in preschool and crumple it up if it was not perfect. If anyone confronted her about not throwing papers, she would shut down and avoid eye contact. Once a preschool teacher tried to make DD look at her after she was upset and threw a paper on the ground...DD tried to hit her.

Now, that was one time and we have not had any problems with aggression towards teachers or classmates since then. I took her to the pedi after that. Pedi says she's bright kid who is very strong-willed.

She is very sensitive to criticism and teasing. Sometimes she will get herself into trouble by reacting to a kid who is teasing her.

Anyway, I think a lot of people blow it off because she is always at the top of her class.

I really don't believe that the CogAT is a good way to diagnose or bring to light potential LDs. LDs are more often suspected when achievement is below ability measures rather than the other way around and it is much better to look @ an individual IQ test as the ability measure in that instance.

Now a days, they are looking @ diagnosing LDs somewhat differently although I am less familiar with that process. I know that response to intervention is a term thrown around a lot in the LD field.

I really wouldn't suspect a verbal LD in a child who is reading comfortably at six and who isn't complaining or showing unusual symptoms. Things that might indicate a verbal LD in a gifted child who is still reading well due to the giftedness would be stuff like complaining of headaches when reading, words moving on the page, having to re-read passages b/c s/he lost his/her place on the page or didn't understand, substituting easy words like "for" instead of "from" while reading larger words correctly, phonics difficulties (inability to sound out novel words)...

FWIW, and I am not positive on this, but I don't believe that the reading section of the ITBS for a 1st grader actually involves reading independently. I believe that the entire test is read to the students at that age (as a group).

I may be completely wrong here, but the socks and jeans thing - any chance that is coordination and not just sensory. One of the first indicators I had that my son had a fine motor coordination was a resistance to wearing socks, shirts that buttoned and jeans - all which required coordination to put on or off, he definitely has a bit of the sensory stuff, too, but your comment triggered that memory so thought I'd throw it out there,

@ABQMom I don't know. There is some fine motor stuff she is not yet doing. She doesn't really wear shirts with buttons and she is not yet tying her shoes but her handwriting is very neat. I would expect handwriting problems with a fine motor delay. How is your son's handwriting?

Well, let's put it this way. My son is now in 7th grade, and a substitute once recently exclained, "That looks like a three year old wrote that." My son, ever the one to come up with a quick return, replied, "Thank you - t means I've improved!"

He had to have years of OT and physical therapy to get to this point. He still struggles with zippers, ties, getting lids off of jars, etc,

I'd expect your daughter's handwriting wouldn't be neat...