Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment testing question

Ok my son has Cerebral Palsy (due to severe PVL) and they have noticed since he was 2 that he has been ahead of his peers on many things, especially vocab (now motor skills he is very far behind on). He entered a specialized school that provides him with the therapy he needs and he's currently in JK, they have noticed he is easily distracted and hard to keep on topic and wondered if he was struggling. Now he went in to be tested, I am not sure which test they use, all I know is it was meant for 6-16yr old (he's 4) because the one they started off with he seemed to be bored of quickly and didn't want to do it. All I know is on it 90-110 is average, 111-121 is above average, 122-130 is highly intelligent. He scored 111 overall, 111 on information, 108 on math and comp, 86 on similarities, and 121 on vocabulary.

Now they told me that a overall score of 111 was above average for children 6-16 but didn't tell me what this meant for a 4yr old. I would take it it means his score is higher than above average due to his age? or would it pretty much stay the same? I'm sure his score would have been much higher because he was trying to go to sleep for almost half the test and was getting really bored with the questions. He absolutely hated the similarities portion, not because he didn't understand it, but because he was not interested in doing it after getting the first 6 right.

We are just wondering what it means for a 4yr old to score above average on a test out of their age range if anyone knows.

TIA

Oh Sweetie!
what a mess! I would ask the school that exact question and ask them to look for a tester who can use tests such as SBV that can be used on a wide variety of ages. I don't know of any tests that can generate a number without an age - did they do the scoring against 6 year olds or against 16 year olds? If they 'pretended' we was six then the next step is to give him academic content that is aimed at a bright 6 year old.

But, back to the original question - why is it hard to keep him on topic. I would say that no test is as good as good old fashioned trial and error - if the idea of giving harder material worked in the testing situation, then maybe it will work during circle time as well.

Does the school have a classroom for 6 or 7 year olds who are bright? That might be a good place to try a trial placement. Another alternative is to bring 2nd grade material to your son's classroom.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I have many of the same questions that Grinity has. The IQ tests that I am familiar with are normed for certain age groups. If the child falls above or below the cut off, they can't be scored in a traditional manner. Thus, a 4 year old that is being scored against 6 year norms would most likely have the IQ number understated.

If you want to get an IQ score for him, the evaluator should utilize a test that is normed for his age.

This wasn't done at the school but at a developmental clinic in the hospital portion of the school (school and rehab hospital are attached), they really don't acre about the score as they just want to see how well he is doing and if he was able to handle the class he was in. His school goes from JK-1 as it is a specialized school for disabled children, the program is meant to give them the intense therapy they need plus give them an education at a normal JK-1 setting instead of them being in a program that is "dumbed done". (So there is no programs for gifted kids)

He is 100% bored because the work is too easy, he does the same thing with us when we are doing homework but since we moved desert to after homework is finished he rushes through it with no problems.

On the testing they pretended he was 6 and suspected he would fall within the into the high below average to low-mid average, they weren't expecting him to score so high but they wouldn't give a clue as to what the score meant except for 1. he's not struggling and 2. he's smart, both are great but neither explains the score or what it means.

Tricky. JK-1 means junior kindergarten to first grade, does it? (I'm not from the US.) So you don't have the option of just accelerating him within the same school. What happens to children with CP like your son's after 1st grade? Could that school help or advise, or could he go there early (maybe not right now, but some time soon?) There is a child with CP at my son's school, apparently doing fine - I think there is a nurse based there involved, I'm not sure exactly how it works - but I realise it has many variants and degrees and not all children would be able to be in a mainstream school and still get the therapy they need. At the least you obviously need to have a talk with his teacher about the fact that he's finding the work too easy.

You may find it useful to hang around (here and maybe also at the Well Trained Mind forum) and read about what people are doing in the way of "afterschooling" and providing interesting extra things for children to do. Yours is only 4 - whatever he does needs to be pretty much play, and maybe that will help the school to be accepting? Logic puzzles, picking the level so that he finds them tricky but not impossible? Is he reading, and if so what and how much? That's another area that's very easy for school to differentiate, if they are willing.

Welcome!

I would say that he is more like 1000% bored - with appologies to the mathmatically inclined here. Can they move him into the 1st grade class immediately? If his verbal is in the 120s for a 6 year old and he will be turning 5 in the next month or two, I would wildly guess that his verbal abilities are in the mid to high 130s. Definitely Gifted. If he is a 'young 4' - within 3 months of his 4th birthday than I would say his verbal on a proper IQ test would be likely in Davidson Young Scholars Program level or quite close. In my vocabulary, that's Highly or Profoundly Gifted.

So I get that the school is nescessary for his physical, and that it's only a few years, but you now (in my opinion) have the job of providing for his intellectual side. As much as possible get the school to do what they can - time in the 1st grade classroom should help for now. And Afterschooling is a great suggestion. Mostly you have to get him a 'pass' out of the activities that he is 'hard to keep on topic' - at the tender age of 4 you can assume that if he won't do something academic, it's because it's not right for him to do. Parts of him are age 7, parts are age 4 and parts are even younger. The trick is to keep an open mind and view him through all the normal expectations for 7s, 4s and 2s. Not an easy feat, but, for example, if a 7 year old was placed in his classroom and didn't want to 'stay on topic' for the academics, you wouldn't blame the child, you'd look for ways to get him out of there during the academic portion of the day, or special duties that precluded circle time. You wouldn't even see the 7 year old as willful - only appropriate, right?

I'm so lucky that I'm not a professional and can pick IQ numbers randomly out of the air. I'm just a mom, and the numbers are just guesses...I only wrote them here bacause I'm betting that you have already made similar guesses in your head. No you aren't crazy.

Love and more Love,
Grinity

It sounds like you got the information they were seeking - is he capable of handling the current academic environment. The answer appears to be a resounding yes, with yet another question - is he being challenged enough.

Did they do any additional testing such as academic testing in reading, writing and math? Did he hit the ceiling for these tests too?

Often times special schools like your son's have groupings that are based on learning profile including IQ, learning style and current skill level. My guess is that the school should consider finding an alternative grouping for your son so that he can be challenged and still get the support that he needs for his CP. He deserves both, and I suspect he'll become even more frustrated if he isn't challenged.

You also seem to have another question - what is his actual IQ? In order to get this "number", an evaluator must used a test that is normed for his age. There are some that are better at identifying giftedness (tend to have higher ceilings), and the evaluator should keep this in mind when deciding which test to use.

To sweetiepie

Hi, I just noticed your post and it caught my attention because I have bilateral posterior (parieto-occipital) PVL and CP as well. I am a 26 year old female and I hang out on this board because I am obsessed with testing and such (not because of giftedness). Like most people with PVL, I was born prematurely after a complicated pregnancy due to threat of miscarriage. So to give you an insight about cognitive functioning in people with PVL, I'd like to say that people with PVL have a very uneven cognitive profile since some cerebral regions (usually frontal) are intact and others (more posterior)are damaged. Verbal abilities: Vocabulary, Similarites, Comprehension and Information are often superior or very superior while more integrative and complex tasks like Block Design and Coding are often totally impaired. Pattern completion as in Matrix Reasoning is often good as well. Usually, in school people with PVL excel in some subjects and tasks and struggle and dislike others. However, the long term prognosis as far as adult functioning is often not very optimistic because the impaired functions prevent one from being able to perform most decent jobs (which I am finding is my case). I'd like to post a link to an excellent article which describes in depth the cognitive deficits in people with PVL. Here's the link:

http://www.livingwithcerebralpalsy.com/pdfs/cpuk.pdf

P.S. I've sent you a private message but I don't think you've noticed it.