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    http://www.ascd.org/publications/ed...tudents-Belong-in-Inclusive-Schools.aspx

    This is an article that suggests that approaches that are applied for the gifted classroom really should be applied to all classrooms, and that inclusiveness is a better option.

    So I realize this article is 20 years old and comes from an era before Common Core. Given that education in 2015 is quite different now, does that make this kind of hope for an inclusive school a pipe dream, or is this something within reach that we should be advocating for?

    Last edited by George C; 07/09/15 10:14 PM.
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    I personally believe it's worth advocating for but that doesn't meant that I am going to put my child through the public school system that cannot meet her needs.

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    Some may say the article does not show how the unique needs of gifted children would be best served in an inclusive classroom, but rather values equal outcomes for all.

    A high point of the article, because it shows a rare glimmer of understanding of gifted, may be:
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    "A frequent reason that gifted students are removed from typical classrooms is that they need a more supportive environment. Gifted students often report isolation and lack of acceptance in typical heterogeneous classrooms (Deslisle 1984). Gifted students, like all students, need to be in classrooms in which their skills and talents are appreciated and their struggles and challenges are supported.
    However, the article seems to not give these thoughts due consideration: note that the name Delisle was misspelled as Deslisle in the article, and his premise was quickly dismissed, not with fact or research, but with a question:
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    But why should we assume that this kind of classroom atmosphere is best achieved (or only achieved) by segregating gifted students...
    Posing this question does not explain "why gifted students belong in inclusive schools", as the title of the article suggests.

    At several points in the article, the work of Mara Sapon-Shevin is referenced. We can read a bit about her from the Amazon bio, and the list of her works including Playing Favorites: Gifted Education and the Disruption of Community... interested readers may wish to use the look-inside feature to glimpse the flavor of this book, read the perspectives offered in the rating comments, and skim a brief bio of one of the co-authors of the book's foreword, Jeannie Oakes. These individuals have been described as critics of gifted education, which they have evidently termed "elitist" and regard as being incompatible with "equitable schooling".

    Some may say that "socially just schools" may be those which acknowledge the different needs of various students and seek to meet them, rather than treating students as one-size-fits-all. Gifted pupils have a right to learn new material each day, just as their age-peers do. When gifted pupils may already know the material which is being taught to their age-peers, the gifted pupils ought to be learning something else. For this not to be distracting or disruptive, a separate learning space makes sense.

    Research has shown that both gifted pupils and mainsteam kids learn better when they are among intellectual peers, rather than in a mixed ability classroom. This thread on Ability Grouping Research discusses that; Especially valuable may be the links to research, posted by Tigerle.

    There is a difference between acknowledging one is "better at..." and supposing one has an attitude of being "better than...".

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    George, my EG ds was in this type of school for his elementary years. It was a charter school, project-based learning, and although the school claimed to differentiate it really didn't happen, partially due to teachers not caring, partially due to a huge district-wide emphasis on bringing up achievement scores on the low end of the spectrum to meet NCLB goals. Because the school felt strongly that they could meet the needs of all students within the classroom, there was no gifted program and students were not referred for the district-wide elementary gifted pull-out program. We had to push to get our ds into that program, and his teachers were thoroughly convinced that he would get nothing more out of it than he did in his regular classroom and that it would be a huge disruption to his week (it was a half-day pullout once a week).

    My ds isn't here in the room with me at the moment to read the article, but if you were to ask him about his experience, I know without a doubt (because I've heard all about it lol!) that he would tell you that the VERY BEST part of his school days in elementary school were the gifted pull-out. Not because of the actual work - he did projects that were as interesting, if not more interesting, in his regular classroom. The difference was being in a classroom with all-high-IQ kids. It was *huge* for him. Why? It was a combination of things - discussions were more in-depth, discussions were not bogged down by what he saw as "obvious" concepts, learning was at a faster pace overall, and the kids in the classroom were there because they wanted to be, hence they were engaged learners, rather than kids goofing off and causing distractions for the teacher and fellow students.

    So if you asked my ds, he would most likely say that he'd recommend advocating for more opportunities to be in a gifted-pace classroom with gifted peers.

    From my perspective, I think it's important to remember where the need for inclusion for children with special needs grew from - not so long ago, children with LDs/etc were denied FAPE through the policies that placed them in separate classrooms and programs. Then ask yourself - is a high-IQ child in a broad-range of abilities classroom being allowed to learn/work at their own pace? With the right teacher who cares enough to see that it happens, yes, that can happen. But is it happening *with* peers? That was the gotcha for my ds - project work with his classroom peers wasn't satisfying his intellectual curiosity and needs.

    Hope that makes sense,

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    Originally Posted by George C
    http://www.ascd.org/publications/ed...tudents-Belong-in-Inclusive-Schools.aspx

    This is an article that suggests that approaches that are applied for the gifted classroom really should be applied to all classrooms, and that inclusiveness is a better option.

    So I realize this article is 20 years old and comes from an era before Common Core. Given that education in 2015 is quite different now, does that make this kind of hope for an inclusive school a pipe dream, or is this something within reach that we should be advocating for?
    From the article:

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    One of the essential features of an inclusive school is a cohesive sense of community, accepting of differences and responsive to individual needs. And it is this sense of community that is disrupted by the practice of pulling out gifted children for special services. This disruption takes several forms.

    The message that “if you're different, then you have to leave” may seriously challenge children's sense of a secure place in the classroom.
    Is school mostly about learning academic material or about fostering a sense of community? I think it's mostly about the former, but some progressive educators emphasize the latter.

    A five-year-old should not be kept out of 1st grade, just because of age, if that is where he or she will learn the most. What about a definition of "inclusiveness" that takes a stand against age discrimination?

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    Originally Posted by spaghetti
    GT parents push their kids and annoy the staff.
    Truth: A gifted child, whether determined by early milestones or high IQ, is different than a pushed/hothoused/Tiger-parented child.

    Psychology: If one drew a circle to represent gifted kids, it would contain, by definition, about 2% of the population.

    Education: If one drew a circle to represent pushed/hothoused/Tiger-parented kids, there may be some slight overlap (intersection) with gifted kids... however gifted programs typically include the union of both sets of children in their "gifted identification" and "gifted programs".

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    What works best is that since there's so many GT kids, the parents do not tolerate cuts or elimination of GT.
    What works best for whom? For the gifted child? For the school and its presentation of its statistics?

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    But, unfortunately, they also don't tolerate anyone getting anything different from their child.
    The classic example: one person chokes... equality is giving everyone the Heimlich maneuver, equity is giving the choking person the Heimlich maneuver.

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    Nobody can work ahead unless everyone can
    What is the logic behind batching children by birth date for their education? All children are not the same.

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    at least it's (common core is) a grade level or two ahead already so it works pretty well for most kids.
    If parents obtained their school and/or district records from lesson alignment, they may find that most lessons did NOT move down a grade level or two (indicating that common core standards are more rigorous than their previous standards) ... rather, many lessons moved up (indicating common core standards are less rigorous than their previous standards).

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    It bears mentioning that in the example of the gifted kid in the article, he's only getting a gifted education one day out of every five. The rest of the time he's in a regular classroom, where he's basically being excluded, because the regular class has nothing to teach him.

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    Under the inclusive regime where is the gifted kid going to find intellectual peers? If a kid has an IQ that is even 1 in 100 she will likely never have a intellectual peer in her day to day classroom environment.

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    Frankly, once you are >3SD from average you are not going to find a lot of 'intellectual peers' anywhere. The world is full of average people and our kids need to learn how to engage with them too,

    That is not to say that I beieve that the GT kids shouldn't have their academic needs met at school or least that genuine efforts to do so shouldn't be made :-)


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    Quote
    once you are >3SD from average you are not going to find a lot of 'intellectual peers' anywhere.
    DYS, Triple Nine, and others begin at 3SD, mensa at 2SD, and there are several groups in-between.

    In schools, it would be possible to cluster students by readiness and ability in each subject, then "differentiate" within those ability-grouped classes. This would also present a better situation for teachers (as compared with being expected to differentiate across a full range of mixed-abilities in a classroom).

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    The world is full of average people and our kids need to learn how to engage with them too
    Some may say gifted children have this opportunity constantly, as our children are clearly in the minority, and severely outnumbered by the majority average-ish IQ culture. Inclusion seems to be a code word for assimilation. Possibly what these gifted kids need (and what is lacking) is some affirmation from "the community".

    How are gifted portrayed in the media?
    - In TV crime shows, profiles of suspects, unsubs, and perps often include high intelligence, with scripts written to suggest that detectives check mensa membership rosters and cross-reference to other profile characteristics.
    - In TV sitcoms, the gifted are pathetically nerdy and antisocial, often the target for jokes.
    - On game shows, the gifted may be presented as pageant divas.
    Where are the positive role models of well-rounded gifted people in the media?

    (stepping down from soapbox)

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    That is not to say that I beieve that the GT kids shouldn't have their academic needs met at school or least that genuine efforts to do so shouldn't be made :-)
    Agreed. Deny a gifted child's academic and intellectual needs for long enough and the gifted child may tend to underachieve academically. Two thoughts:

    1) From the outside, it may appear that this child no longer presents with a need for intellectual stimulation, advanced curriculum, or accelerated pacing. To the schools being measured by their ability to close achievement gaps, this may be counted as a success.

    2) From the inside, this may create a child who has been deeply invalidated, ignored, overlooked, underserved, and treated as inconsequential collateral damage. This child's growth may not continue along a positive academic path, as the child may have lost curiosity, drive, and internal motivation, and may be scarred with a deep distrust of the system. Voila! The system may have now created the social miscreant which it projected onto this gifted child: a self-fulfilling prophecy. There is a reason why groups like SENG (Supporting Emotional Needs of the Gifted) exist, and why parents pull their children from schools.

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